Turning speeds

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    Just finished reading about turning speeds and how it afects the size of ships
    ok biger ships should turn slower than little ones but this is to far most of us out here want to play,build big ships if u want little ships go play space enginers (and what happens if they get big to work in there this game will die because as I said most of us want to play and build big most of us are from minecraft after all
     
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    I hope English isn\'t your mother tongue, because this is sad. Double spacing does not count as a period.

    Anyway, it seems like you want big ships to turn as fast as smaller ships. That\'s a big nono. People actually like small craft and fighters. Not everyone wants to run around in a massive titan. Furthermore, have you even seen any large ship that turns as fast as a fighter? Of course not. Even in sci-fi shows, the writers have to balance ships so every ship has it\'s use. If big ships turned as fast as fighters, fighters would not be needed.

    Next time you post a suggestion, please make sure you have thought about it thoroughly.
     
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    large ships turning fast should at least require engines facing in the direction you want to turn faster. That way you at least have to put some design work in.



    But aside from that, no they shouldn\'t be able to turn all that fast.
     

    Crashmaster

    I got N64 problems but a bitch ain't one
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    Using what I learned from making many of those smaller ships that no-one makes my semi-capital design of approx 225k mass has 1.2 1.0 1.2 turing speeds still (and DPS in the millions). She ain\'t pretty but I was designing for turning speeds.

    I agree that directional thrusters would be the way to go for future development though.
     
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    Yeah, I\'m all in favor of using turning thrusters that draw power or something to fix this issue. While I don\'t want my ships (Frigate-cruiser size as a rule) to turn fighter-fast (That\'d just be OP) I\'m hitting issues where I can\'t even turn enough to NOT HIT A PLANET. I mean when you can\'t avoid a collision with a PLANET...



    A power-sucking RCS thruster would be a great idea, IMO.
     
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    But yeah, ship turning has been discussed to death many times over.



    IT\'S FINE THE WAY IT IS. I\'m pretty sure Space Engineer is just animating thrusters instead of actually emulating them, but I might be wrong.

    Eitherway, large ships should be slow. Even with thursters. And guess what - you would need insanely high powered thrusters to turn a capital with ANY meaningful speed, by which point you would tear the ship itself apart. If you can\'t fly well enough to avoid planets... maybe you should fly something smaller ^^ Either that, or increase your draw distance to have more time to react. Or just strafe...



    flying a Capital ship is not supposed to be easy, it\'s not supposed to be for everyone. You NEED brains to do it properly - can\'t expect any 11 year old to just get in and lead the charge right off the bat ^^ Maybe fly something smaller first, get to know the mechanics of the game and then try your luck? I can tell you right now that piloting ships upwards of 350000 mass requires some skill.
     
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    Part of the problem is that a 200-meter ship, an 800-meter ship, and a 2000-meter ship should all turn very differently. OP isn\'t right though. Ships of all sizes should be of use, if you have AI fleets of them.
     
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    Volume vs surface area, the volume of something increses faster than it\'s surface area, thrusters need surface area, mass doesn\'t... hence why big things turn \'slower\' than small things... also relativity, a big thing will feel like it\'s turning slower than a smaller craft going at the same speed... math and perception and wonderful things :D
     
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    Except you aren\'t using your thrusters for turning; you don\'t even need thrusters on the ship to turn. It seems logical then that ships turn using gyroscopes or a similar device that introduces angular momentum. But that wouldn\'t change the fact that being more massive or wider would reduce the angular acceleration from a fixed angular moment.
     
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    You can turn by changing the amout of thrust engines give out, more on the right sides and you turn left, and vice versa.
     
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    Not to actually turn them.

    What I can only assume you were thinking of there , were Reaction Wheels. Now reaction wheels ARE used to turn small satelites and telescopes in space to retain precise control over the satelite. These aren\'t objects nearly big enough to be called space ships (though they technically still are space faring vesels).and they carry no humans anywhere. It\'s essentially a \'\'physics exploit\'\' in real life - capitalising on Newton\'s 3rd law of motion (\'\'For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction\'\'). Using reaction wheels also allows you to control the rotation of your satelite for as long as you have electricity. With things like RCS, which are how anything with any eaningful size is rotated in space, you need fuel. Fuel runs out and you are stuck.



    But to be able to turn even a frigate, your reaction wheels would have to have a substantial size. Then, you need a reaction wheel for every axis you want to rotate around. Now you COULD just have one omni directional reaction wheel (pivoting around to exert angular momentuim in the direction you want it to) or sphere (above, but much easier ^^). However they are and need to be very heavy to be able to produce a force large enough to turn a substantial space craft, not to mention that they need to be placed dead-on at the centre of mass and would take up a lot of space - essentially forcing all spaceships to become flying spheres, unless you had a ship boxy enough to contain it inside, wasting a lot of valuable space.



    TL:DR: GYROSCOPES don\'t turn ships, Reaction Wheels do but they are not practical for anything larger than a satelite. They are precission tools. Thrusters are the best way to turn large ships. (turning ships isn\'t even practical once your vessel is over 1000 meters long - you just point it and fly straight to your destination, without altering your course along the way).
     
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    Ok, thanks for terminology correction (although I did say \"or a similar device that introduces angular momentum\"). I haven\'t built a truly massive ship yet but so far I have not seen any effect on turning speed by adding more engines… and ships can turn even without engines. So one of two things is happening: ships automatically contain large and/or massive reaction wheels, or ships automatically contain a power-free RCS system using invisible thrusters attached to every surface. I don\'t much care which one is determined to be the canonical explanation. I also don\'t think this game is close enough to reality for practicality to be the crux of your argument.
     
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    And that is what is wrong with this game.I was arguing from a theoretical standpoint that reaction wheels are simply not good enough in order to turn large ships. You could get around this issue if for example you added turrets along the CoM of your ship and forced angular momentum by simply turning your turrets. But again, the game just doesn\'t work like that.



    With the system the way it is now, I think the only real way to solve this issue would be to firstly to add a bonus to turning speed of your ship depending on how much thrust it has. From there, Schema could expand the system to incorporate directional thrusters - but that is only a speculation at best and will likely not be practical enough to implement for a very long time. I do think that by the time of the Official release of this game, we will have a much better turning system. It has been revised twice now :)
     

    Lecic

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    is that a ship that is 200m long has the same turning speed as a ship 1000m long. Larger ships should turn more slowly, but the current numbers are too small, in my opinion.
     
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    That it takes longer for you to turn and look at a specific thing
     
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    I agree they should be slower, but because this game is so buggy it is a close up game, there is no way you can use your superior firepower to take out the gnat at 5000 meters, even if you can fire that long, that makes big ships useless

    problem is, all big ships are awesome, unless in this game

    only way to take down huge ships should be with other huge ships, if you in a tiny fighter see one you should just flee or be autokilled, somehow that is not how it works in this game :P
     
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    and I killed this thread with logic as well, or the community is this inactive?