Turn Speeds
- Thread starter Ethoir
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plus side:
I like this for what it is. A buff to all ships smaller than 150x150x150.
I also like this because it stops big ships Turning on a Penny.
minus side.
I miss turning on the Core as a centre of gravity
anything over around 150 length/height/width performs the same.
I like this for what it is. A buff to all ships smaller than 150x150x150.
I also like this because it stops big ships Turning on a Penny.
minus side.
I miss turning on the Core as a centre of gravity
anything over around 150 length/height/width performs the same.
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McDill, the problem is it takes literally 2 minutes to turn my ship 90 degrees. How can you go anywhere? Sideways? It\'s not so much I want to be able to track a fighter or hit them all the time with main weapons. We can barely even turn in these things! It\'s like the others said...Icebergs can move faster than this turning.
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The turning speed should be more akin to where the mass of the ship is located (how it is spread out through its exterior dimensions). Also, over all thrust:mass ratio should have some bearing on the formula (that is if thrusters aren\'t made to be directional and location specific: I.E. their force is applied to that part of the ship in the direction placed instead of the entire ships mass as a whole.
This new system feels a bit cookie-cutter and while the changes were needed for the smaller to medium ships, anything over a corvette in size (I\'m using real-life navy-ship size classes, not a \"frigate\" that in real life is the size of a mere school bus) is impossibly slow to do anything practical with...forget about fighting, but what about using salvage beams? Even that is hard in a larger ship now.
I realize the servers have customization in this regard, and I\'m all for customization, but let\'s be real, there are going to be a majority of servers using default settings and it\'s the standard by which all others are judged.
There has to be a more elegant sollution than this. My last two ships which I\'ve spent so long on (with the intent on not only being cool-looking but also quite practical within their scope of intended roles) are now completely worthless for anything (yes, even with their potent turrets).
Turnspeed of 1.0 is too slow...way too slow.
This new system feels a bit cookie-cutter and while the changes were needed for the smaller to medium ships, anything over a corvette in size (I\'m using real-life navy-ship size classes, not a \"frigate\" that in real life is the size of a mere school bus) is impossibly slow to do anything practical with...forget about fighting, but what about using salvage beams? Even that is hard in a larger ship now.
I realize the servers have customization in this regard, and I\'m all for customization, but let\'s be real, there are going to be a majority of servers using default settings and it\'s the standard by which all others are judged.
There has to be a more elegant sollution than this. My last two ships which I\'ve spent so long on (with the intent on not only being cool-looking but also quite practical within their scope of intended roles) are now completely worthless for anything (yes, even with their potent turrets).
Turnspeed of 1.0 is too slow...way too slow.
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I am all for Schema changing the value that the config file defaults too on vanilla servers, he even said himself that the default value right now is just a testing value.
But please, please do not reference the ships you\'ve \"Built recently to fulfill etc.\"
I implore you guys to remember that this is Alpha, and in this stage of development, whatever ship you make now or any time during the Alpha will most likely not function the way you want it too later on in development.
It\'s not that i don\'t sympathize with you builders, I do. But we\'re all aware of the risks in this Alpha, so don\'t be surprised if you spend a lot of time on a ship to be practical now, and it becomes impractical later on.
I understand this particular update applies to ALL large ships, not just recently created ones, so my lecture doesn\'t fully apply here. But still, focus on \"Big Ships\" instead of \"My ship I built recently.\" Just because the \"My ship I built recently\" card doesn\'t hold much water in the Alpha.
To address Grozik\'s suggestion of turning speed being locationally relevant to mass allocation, it would probably be a real technical hardship to make that work. Tuning it to dimensions on top of overall mass achieves the goal just fine, the only issue is that the default value is scaled too low.
But please, please do not reference the ships you\'ve \"Built recently to fulfill etc.\"
I implore you guys to remember that this is Alpha, and in this stage of development, whatever ship you make now or any time during the Alpha will most likely not function the way you want it too later on in development.
It\'s not that i don\'t sympathize with you builders, I do. But we\'re all aware of the risks in this Alpha, so don\'t be surprised if you spend a lot of time on a ship to be practical now, and it becomes impractical later on.
I understand this particular update applies to ALL large ships, not just recently created ones, so my lecture doesn\'t fully apply here. But still, focus on \"Big Ships\" instead of \"My ship I built recently.\" Just because the \"My ship I built recently\" card doesn\'t hold much water in the Alpha.
To address Grozik\'s suggestion of turning speed being locationally relevant to mass allocation, it would probably be a real technical hardship to make that work. Tuning it to dimensions on top of overall mass achieves the goal just fine, the only issue is that the default value is scaled too low.
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I have no problems with the fact that this is an Alpha and things change. Let\'s take the turret docking fixes in the past for an example. Past versions of some ships needed 2 or 3 complete turret and docking rebuilds to work with the update.
But I had the power to adapt to the changes, to enter build mode and modify my designs to adhere to the new mechanics.
In this instance ship designers can do nothing to adress this issue but one of two things: 1. wait for turn speed to be refined or 2. rebuild their ship to be smaller and more cubelike.
This mechanical change cannot easily or realistically be adapted to. As of right now it\'s best to shelf large ships and focus on smaller ones, and to many that\'s a heavy source of lost interest.
The point I was trying to make about a ship I built realistically was the amount of time spent building it was still fresh in mind and the sense of accomplishment had the steam taken right out of it in less than 12 hours. This was simply a coincidental timing issue on my part, but I lack any mechanism to adapt my design to be functional again at this present time without a total rebuild (and after finishing a ship so soon adjacent to this update my desire to build anything new is all but gone).
I was simply trying to convey a mild frustration based on my own perception, not use it as an actual valid argument for or against anything.
But I had the power to adapt to the changes, to enter build mode and modify my designs to adhere to the new mechanics.
In this instance ship designers can do nothing to adress this issue but one of two things: 1. wait for turn speed to be refined or 2. rebuild their ship to be smaller and more cubelike.
This mechanical change cannot easily or realistically be adapted to. As of right now it\'s best to shelf large ships and focus on smaller ones, and to many that\'s a heavy source of lost interest.
The point I was trying to make about a ship I built realistically was the amount of time spent building it was still fresh in mind and the sense of accomplishment had the steam taken right out of it in less than 12 hours. This was simply a coincidental timing issue on my part, but I lack any mechanism to adapt my design to be functional again at this present time without a total rebuild (and after finishing a ship so soon adjacent to this update my desire to build anything new is all but gone).
I was simply trying to convey a mild frustration based on my own perception, not use it as an actual valid argument for or against anything.
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The other thing is, with this change it means nobody wants to build a large ship. Schema seems to have always geared the game toward user preferences to make the game more fun, as you said it is an alpha. I can\'t figure out how this is more fun for anyone. It\'s a limitation without a benefit.
If maneuvering thrusters were added, then I would be totally okay with the change. I also like how smaller ships handle better. This big ship thing, barely turning, is just a huge sticking point for me.
If maneuvering thrusters were added, then I would be totally okay with the change. I also like how smaller ships handle better. This big ship thing, barely turning, is just a huge sticking point for me.
Big, powerful ships that can take a huge beating and dish out huge firepower should not be able to move very well at all. It\'s a balance issue. As damage/shields/mass goes up, agility should go down to counter that. Huge ships are meant to be designed for turrets, and shouldn\'t be able to ever get behind you in a small ship. Balancing for every game anywhere has always been firepower and agility on oposite ends of a scale, as it should always be. The stronger you are the slower you should be.
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Read the previous posts please. Do you think large ships should basically not be able to turn? Nobody disagrees with what you are saying. We are talking about the degree. After several people went through specifics here, why did you even come in here and post generalities?
Im sorry, I didn\'t mean to offend, I understand that my point sounds redundant, so I will clear up what I meant. I feel that it is just fine the way it is right now. With some of the biggest ships not being able to turn at all seemingly. You just don\'t need to be moving around in something that big.
Personally hate the new turning speed. Nerfed large ships when they were all ready slow enough. It\'s not that large ships shouldn\'t be slow but that now they are pretty much useless if you dont change the server cfg. Would have much prefered just giving a boost to small ships and leaving large ship masses the same.
Simple fix is to make thrusters turned on the side help in turning the ship and still take up power like normal thrusters.
Simple fix is to make thrusters turned on the side help in turning the ship and still take up power like normal thrusters.
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Would have much prefered just giving a boost to small ships and leaving large ship masses the same.
Huge +1. With smaller ships having so much more maneuverability now, there\'s no way a small ship could get outmaneuvered by a big one unless they\'re tempting fate by flying in front of it, even if the turnspeed dropoff for larger ships were cut back to their old [functional] levels.
Huge +1. With smaller ships having so much more maneuverability now, there\'s no way a small ship could get outmaneuvered by a big one unless they\'re tempting fate by flying in front of it, even if the turnspeed dropoff for larger ships were cut back to their old [functional] levels.
I havent played the game much, but after seeing some youtube movies with large ships, I think that they all turned much to fast before! Being able to have a dogfight with a 1000m long ship is just a no no... And thats how it was before.
Im looking forvard to try the game with this new update, and im glad they made it so that 1000m long ships dont turn like a fighter
Im looking forvard to try the game with this new update, and im glad they made it so that 1000m long ships dont turn like a fighter
Have you ever tried getting a server admin to change anything in the server.cfg? It\'s next to impossible. It\'s great that any body can do it for their own servers, but admins tend to go with what ever Schema makes default.
They didn\'t in the first place. Things smaller than they were could just outmaneuver them and you could only \"dogfight\" ships that were as close to your own size as possible (Brigadier vs Brigadier as one example).
The idea is that space combat with ships larger than 300 meters tend to feel like \"battle on rails\" where you can\'t maneuver. Your options are turrets, crew, or leave the big ship at home and fly something smaller.
The game is shifting to favor the small ships when the theme of the game kind of tells you you can build whatever you want.
Finally, The current setting makes it painful to use larger ships. The default should be changed. Perhaps 0.9 or 1.0. And the interooduction of maneuvering thrusters you can put on the front and back ends of the ship to either side to help turn it a few degrees faster would be welcome as well.
The idea is that space combat with ships larger than 300 meters tend to feel like \"battle on rails\" where you can\'t maneuver. Your options are turrets, crew, or leave the big ship at home and fly something smaller.
The game is shifting to favor the small ships when the theme of the game kind of tells you you can build whatever you want.
Finally, The current setting makes it painful to use larger ships. The default should be changed. Perhaps 0.9 or 1.0. And the interooduction of maneuvering thrusters you can put on the front and back ends of the ship to either side to help turn it a few degrees faster would be welcome as well.
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\"You just don\'t need to be moving around in something that big\"
So subjectively, you don\'t think we need to be moving around in something that big? What are you basing this off of? I like to build big ships and be able to fly around. What\'s the problem with that? It reminds me of the occupy wallstreet people. \"Nobody needs to have that much money; (because I says so)\"
So the question is, why are you against people having fun the way they want to? Are you part of the I want to build a small fighter because i dont\' have any patience and I want that to be enough crowd?
Personally, I hope we can all build ships that we want that are functional, and Schema makes an ungodly insane amounts of money from this game which he can retire off of and buy several yachts and jets...
Where is the downside?
So subjectively, you don\'t think we need to be moving around in something that big? What are you basing this off of? I like to build big ships and be able to fly around. What\'s the problem with that? It reminds me of the occupy wallstreet people. \"Nobody needs to have that much money; (because I says so)\"
So the question is, why are you against people having fun the way they want to? Are you part of the I want to build a small fighter because i dont\' have any patience and I want that to be enough crowd?
Personally, I hope we can all build ships that we want that are functional, and Schema makes an ungodly insane amounts of money from this game which he can retire off of and buy several yachts and jets...
Where is the downside?