Brainstorm This Transdimensional Gateway Mechanic

[spunkiethefirst]

Dimensional gate:
-must be constructed at the sending and receiving locations.
-the gate should define a cube of space to send so as to allow the sending of stations as well as ships and the entity to be sent must fit within the cube
-the sending gate faction must match the faction of the entity being sent. faction check only applied to the mothership/station entity
-since only one station entity is allowed per sector sending a station through the gate will construct the station on the receiving side as part of the gate. On the sending side only that part of the station within the gates defined cube area will be sent.

Spoiler: config options

config options
-mass limit
-block limit
sub option block type limit
-gate size/ sent entity xyz limit
-allowed entities
defines what entities may be transferred: ships, stations, asteroids, planets, npcs, players
-allow cargo
sub option cargo type limit
-allow blueprints
-allow credits
sub option credit limit
-allow personal items
defines what personal items may be transferred: guns, tools, logbooks
-gate cooldown
time till next gate use available
-gate energy cost
-transfer time
time required to transfer once entering sending gate till arriving at receiving gate
-transfer warning
server wide message informing "Dimensional gate activation detected [sub options]"
sub options: display entity name, display entity mass, display entity value, display entity faction
-galactic map dimensional gate indicator
shows gate on galactic map while gate is active
-usergroups
defines which users are allowed to use the gates such as owners, admins, moderators, players

 

[StarWars1981]

A very balanced way of doing this is as follows:
First, you choose what servers to link to and from. This can ONLY be done once BOTH servers are capable of creating warp gates; before that it doesn't mean much.
Second, you need a way to determine what's linked and how. This may require a special computer and/or modules (to build the gate out of) to define the area and then give it a name (like transporters, except inter-dimensional) to link to. Once linked, it takes either Faction Points or a crapload of credits to change which gate these things are linked to. That's an incentive for factions to keep holding areas, rather than being mobile. They are faction-locked, of course, but may get a system to allow them to be captured rather than destroyed, as they would need to be rare and expensive in resources, and cannot be bought in shops.
This way, you have a two-way key. Each computer needs to target the other before they can be linked. Then, an "Accept" box pops up, you can accept or deny the contact if it's the right one or not, and then it links and forms a large wormhole opened with the push of a button (if you're on the right faction. Maybe the wrong person pushing button sets off a turret massacre? Lol!).

You can bring through anything that fits through that hole. Blueprints ... Idk, kinda OP so probably not. At least - not filled AT ALL. Unless you want to code something that will calculate dimensions or something off the blueprints.
Stations are a different problem. They're not inherently mobile ... so ... taking them through is gonna be an issue. I say station blueprints can be taken through. Just not filled.
Yes you can get around this by carrying blocks through in cargo. But how do you limit cargo capacity that can be brought? A mass limit is difficult because it'd need to be done by server admins and this still allows me to take a microshuttle with cargo across to bring my Titan through a 10-block wide circular wormhole-gate-thingy.

Alternatively, we do this: Build a box out of these precious modules. If it fits in the box, it can be transported. If not ... you're stuck. Build a bigger box, dangit. Cargo ... not allowed. You'll need to take a ship through dozens of times to bring that Titan in your personal capacity. That's the fastest, simplest restriction that can be imposed. Otherwise, newbcube your Titan and then reconstruct there via blueprint.

Other than that ... Well, I've covered it all.
1. Server owners control who links to them and who they link to.
2. A link requires agreement on both server ends, coming from those who CONTROL the gates on BOTH sides.
3. No cargo or filled blueprints, though empty ones can be brought.
4. Either a 3-dimensional shape that has to completely contain vessels (boxes only) or a 2-dimensional stargate kinda thing to fly through.
5. A lot of coding work. Dangit, a LOT of coding work.
6. A new suggestion: create a different form of "blueprints" that are ONLY created when a COMPLETE ship is disassembled via ship core command into an easily portable piece. It has a short survival time before either it is deleted wholesale, spawned, or starts losing precious blocks and has to be refilled. This is JUST for moving through gates.
- Yes it can be exploited to bring something into an enemy's secure sector if they've got insane border defenses. Whatever. Kill'em off inside. I don't see a quick way of fixing it. Anybody got ideas?

Thank you for reading this Wall of Text by StarWars1981.

 

[whooplaah]

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a general access thing and can connect to any other server with it active? If so, what happens if someone starts up their own server and just spawns in the required materials to send over fleets of titans? There's no real way to defend against that without either making it pointless or huge overhauls and it essentially opens every participating server up to someone with a temporary server and admin commands.

The discussion has already addressed this concern.

The idea is that there is a limit on how much material can move through a portal per hour. This limit is determined by the server config on the destination gate. You can have a Titan in Server A, but the config on Server B says no ships over 1,000 mass. That means that the titan will never move through.

It also means that you can't spawn a hundred small ships and move them through 1 at a time. You can move 1,000 mass per hour, and then have to wait for the count to reset.

And again, the server dictates what can move through a portal into the server, not what moves out.

 

[Magrim]

In essence the ship would be saved to blueprint at origin gate, the BP transmitted to destination server, then the destination server sends back the "local" cost, if they match (ie: both servers use the same cost mechanism) or the destination is cheaper then you get the go ahead, if the destination server has higher costs you have to pay the difference to go.

No, you don't pay anything on your server. The cost is incurred on the destination server, to prevent cheating the resources in on your home server then running roughshod over everyone on the destination server while flying free titans.

This brings up a good point. BP meta items would have to be prohibited, since you could bring in hundreds of filled BPs for almost no mass.

Mass doesnt matter, block and item count is everything. Filled blueprints can be read to determine the cost of transfer.

Honestly, I don't see bringing things in from other servers as needing to have a cost, if the mass is extremely limited. 1K is the mass of a fighter or shuttle. Who cares if someone gates in a free fighter every few hours?

They don't have to have a cost. If server admins want to allow people in for free they can, but the tools are there to prevent abuse. Starting out with nothing might be too harsh and your idea corrects that so I don't see anything wrong using it in tandem with a cost associated with large objects.

Also, note that the cost thing feeds into elitist domination of servers. If any size ships are allowed through so long as you pay the price, then large, well-established players and groups will just be porting in tons of additional ships from their SP or other servers, while new players or infrequent players will be disadvantaged. There are already enough factors contributing to the dominance of players with extreme amounts of spare time to invest without adding more. I think that it would be much more balanced to say only so much mass is able to safely move between any two dimensions over a given period of time. So unless you're with a powerful existing clan or inter-server faction, supporting a cost-based server-server transfer that allows kids to port in titans is actually really going to suck for you.

I disagree. Established players will always have more. This wont make it better, but it also wont make it worse. Whether they pay the "cost" of mining and crafting the blocks or they pay the cost of acquiring and spending resources to "spawn" the blocks onto the new server, there is no difference.

Sounds like an 'add to the pool' thing to me.

Sorry, I should have been more clear in the op, my fault. Admins will have a whitelist they can add other servers to, to allow a link.

 

[MacThule]

Whether they pay the "cost" of mining and crafting the blocks or they pay the cost of acquiring and spending resources to "spawn" the blocks onto the new server, there is no difference.

I'm not entirely sure that's true.

If the cost is being paid with different resources or credits instead of resources, then there is a difference. One that could relieve demand for scarce ores such as hylat and fertikeen, for example.

One of the equalizing factors currently is that even a veteran team with a great stock of BPs still faces similar supply choke points to smaller, less developed teams. By allowing them to even partially bypass those economic factors, it could potentially make a big difference in unbalancing factions. So that's worth examining, IMO.

Limited mass to allow only small ships doesn't really seem to run that risk, which is why it seems safer to me, but I could be wrong.

 

[kiraen]

Mass doesnt matter, block and item count is everything.

I disagree, with passion.
Pure block count means practically nothing when determining balance.
You want it to cost the exact same whether I bring 10,000 hull, 10,000 advanced crystal armor, or 10,000 cannon computers?
Whether you count it as credits, resources, mass, or combat value these blocks have drastically different values and will affect the destination server in completely different ways.
Pure anything is useless. The cost for transfer, in whatever form it ends up being, needs to be calculated off of a formula that includes block count, mass, and resource/credit values.

Most likely it will end up being from the ship score.

 

[Magrim]

I'm not entirely sure that's true.

If the cost is being paid with different resources or credits instead of resources, then there is a difference. One that could relieve demand for scarce ores such as hylat and fertikeen, for example.

One of the equalizing factors currently is that even a veteran team with a great stock of BPs still faces similar supply choke points to smaller, less developed teams. By allowing them to even partially bypass those economic factors, it could potentially make a big difference in unbalancing factions. So that's worth examining, IMO.

Limited mass to allow only small ships doesn't really seem to run that risk, which is why it seems safer to me, but I could be wrong.

You make a very good point. I didn't even consider ore rarity. You are also right about it being far easier to balance by only allowing a small amount of mass through, but how do we have server wars if only small ships can get through? Are you thinking, allow people to come and go in small ships and if they want they can mine and construct larger ships in that universe?

I disagree, with passion.
Pure block count means practically nothing when determining balance.
You want it to cost the exact same whether I bring 10,000 hull, 10,000 advanced crystal armor, or 10,000 cannon computers?
Whether you count it as credits, resources, mass, or combat value these blocks have drastically different values and will affect the destination server in completely different ways.
Pure anything is useless. The cost for transfer, in whatever form it ends up being, needs to be calculated off of a formula that includes block count, mass, and resource/credit values.

Most likely it will end up being from the ship score.

Also a very good point, you both have changed my mind. Honestly I was thinking about the cost of harvesting and crafting only (time and effort) and not the items value. I see now that viewpoint is flawed. Do you think ship score is accurate enough to determine the transfer cost?

 

[lupoCani]

Here we go again, the trans-server warpgate discussion.

I'll repeat what I always say when this pops up-

There are two options-

Complete separation aside from the travel itself. Mechanics-wise, it's no different from logging out in on one server and logging into another. No items could be brought in any way, shape or form. Either by being disallowed, or as this post suggests, being stored at the sending gate and reconstructed using local resources at the receiving gate. As long as one cannot gain any advantage in any universe by doing something in another, this is workable, if not very impactful.

Incomplete separation. Items can be brought in some meaningful way, inevitably merging the economies and strategic environments. Mechanics-wise, this is effectively merging the servers. It's not an opt-in feature admins could approve, it's not a neat extra mechanic, it's a merging of the servers. This would probably be great fun, allow servers to share playerbases and distribute the load between themselves. Just don't try to frame it as anything else.

 

[Benevolent27]

Here we go again, the trans-server warpgate discussion.

I'll repeat what I always say when this pops up-

There are two options-

Complete separation aside from the travel itself. Mechanics-wise, it's no different from logging out in on one server and logging into another. No items could be brought in any way, shape or form. Either by being disallowed, or as this post suggests, being stored at the sending gate and reconstructed using local resources at the receiving gate. As long as one cannot gain any advantage in any universe by doing something in another, this is workable, if not very impactful.

Incomplete separation. Items can be brought in some meaningful way, inevitably merging the economies and strategic environments. Mechanics-wise, this is effectively merging the servers. It's not an opt-in feature admins could approve, it's not a neat extra mechanic, it's a merging of the servers. This would probably be great fun, allow servers to share playerbases and distribute the load between themselves. Just don't try to frame it as anything else.

I was going to say this same thing, though I think you worded it better than I would have.

To flesh out the idea a bit more though. I think it would be cool if people could still all talk in the same chat room, even if playing on these "merged servers." There could then be chat rooms just for the specific dimension a person is in as well. One issue that could spring up, however, is that the data bandwidth across servers when players move a ship or items from one to the other may be excessive. Perhaps there could be a time limit on how quickly a player may warp between dimensions, or if a certain bandwidth is exceeded, the person would have to wait till a "travel conduit" opens up. I also would imagine that it would never make sense to allow a person to transfer items from their single player world, but it would be cool to be able to hop into single player creative mode to test ships, while maintaining the ability to keep talking on a server.

 

[Magrim]

oops, my kid hit the post button before i typed a response. give me a min

Here we go again, the trans-server warpgate discussion.

I'll repeat what I always say when this pops up-

There are two options-

Complete separation aside from the travel itself. Mechanics-wise, it's no different from logging out in on one server and logging into another. No items could be brought in any way, shape or form. Either by being disallowed, or as this post suggests, being stored at the sending gate and reconstructed using local resources at the receiving gate. As long as one cannot gain any advantage in any universe by doing something in another, this is workable, if not very impactful.

Incomplete separation. Items can be brought in some meaningful way, inevitably merging the economies and strategic environments. Mechanics-wise, this is effectively merging the servers. It's not an opt-in feature admins could approve, it's not a neat extra mechanic, it's a merging of the servers. This would probably be great fun, allow servers to share playerbases and distribute the load between themselves. Just don't try to frame it as anything else.

I also agree with your statements. Which is why both have been discussed here already, with it being admin's choice.

I was going to say this same thing, though I think you worded it better than I would have.

To flesh out the idea a bit more though. I think it would be cool if people could still all talk in the same chat room, even if playing on these "merged servers." There could then be chat rooms just for the specific dimension a person is in as well. One issue that could spring up, however, is that the data bandwidth across servers when players move a ship or items from one to the other may be excessive. Perhaps there could be a time limit on how quickly a player may warp between dimensions, or if a certain bandwidth is exceeded, the person would have to wait till a "travel conduit" opens up. I also would imagine that it would never make sense to allow a person to transfer items from their single player world, but it would be cool to be able to hop into single player creative mode to test ships, while maintaining the ability to keep talking on a server.

I like the idea of interserver chat, that would be neat. As far as bringing things from sp, im starting to reevaluate it. Perhaps it needs to be a little more strict. Another problem with it is that it would bypass the need for a shipyard by spawning the ship in...something to think about.

 

[Lukwan]

I do like the concept of server rivalry and would welcome a mechanic for formal competitions or cultural exchanges but...

...I'll play the devil's advocate for a bit.

1) There is agreement that no one should be able to exploit for free stuff on the destination server, so we would have to grind for some kind of resource anyway right? How is that much different from me importing an empty BP for a ship or station and filling it?

2) A new influx of players will strain many servers and this mechanic would blur the line between servers. A server community usually has to pay to maintain their playground. How will each community make decisions about linking with another?

3) Remember that flying animation before you spawn? It is there to let the 'chunks load' when you first arrive just as when you warp into a busy station and have to wait for rendering. I can imagine that the server resources are being taxed every time this happens and now we are discussing letting it happen more often. Just saying.