The ultimate drone R&D thread

    Joined
    Nov 27, 2013
    Messages
    673
    Reaction score
    67
    • Purchased!
    • Community Content - Bronze 1
    • Legacy Citizen
    I want to see this in action, get two people recording at the same time, one at the launch area and one at the area the drones are heading to. :)
    well i just finished making prototypes
    i call em tiedrones...
    funny... ties dont have jumpdrives... nor sheilds... but these drones dont have sheilding either as they are just proof of concept
     
    Joined
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages
    278
    Reaction score
    31
    If it put out a logic signal when finished, then we could have it stop jumping after it jumps once or twice...
     

    StormWing0

    Leads the Storm
    Joined
    Jun 26, 2015
    Messages
    2,126
    Reaction score
    316
    • Community Content - Bronze 1
    Basically don't charge more jump drives than you are needing. They'll all fire and often you won't like where you end up. XD
     
    Joined
    Apr 8, 2014
    Messages
    535
    Reaction score
    277
    • Purchased!
    • Community Content - Bronze 2
    • Legacy Citizen 2
    I believe the idea is to stay far out of harm's reach with your carrier, only sending out a disposable grid or carefully setting up a drone attack. Besides, it also would potentially catch people by surprise, without giving them a chance to mobilize.
    Precisely the idea, surprise is important.

    However, surprise is only an element when the speed to react is actually viable. With jump racks there's the problem of both timing and well.. time. It takes immense amounts of time to charge drives that aren't over sized and incredulously expensive. So having a cheap disposable unit using these would likely take several minutes to charge, hardly a surprise in any owned system with not-even-decent scanners going off. You'd know exactly where they are and could probably guess what a sizable number of ships waiting exactly xxx jump distance from your base are going to do. Even a single enemy @ said distance would likely be taken as a priority threat.

    Then the other side is how does one prepare without proper advanced notice/information. So if you're going to have jump racks you're going to be vulnerable mid-jump before you've prepared to set them all up. <_< regular racks don't have this issue. A random patrol and oops bye bye racks. x)

    200 drones jumping in isnt much
    also they would have a time limit before jumping to the next location (witch would be random due to realignment)
    200*80 mass drones = 16k mass of weaponry and heavy shielding. 200 is plenty of drones, if you feel otherwise mass load in 200 soul drones as pirates and watch the fireworks. :) i'm sure you'll feel otherwise once you've done that.

    Way I see it there's some pros and cons here that I'm weighing in on before I even try to delve into jump-racks.. again.

    Pros:
    -A small control/transport vessel could bring all the racks to bear with enough time, forgoing the need for large heavily armed carriers
    -Absolutely massive hordes of drones could be launched into enemy territory with minimal if any risk
    -Racks could be setup ahead of time to launch whenever someone enters a sector, this could be used as a trap or a defense

    Cons:
    -They have the whole aim issue
    -Setup time both for the drives and the positioning
    -Ill prepared for random encounters, the group is highly vulnerable before launch
    -If the attack fails you have no chance of recovery (shared with regular racks so it's not much of a con)
    -You won't know if the attack fails until it's over.

    Despite all the cons some of those pros are pretty hefty. Having the ability to launch many hundreds of drones suddenly with or without warning is still pretty awesome and can be game changing. Needing only to use a control vessel as opposed to a much larger and more expensive carrier is also highly attractive. A cheap control vessel is thusly a good way to save fleet resources that could be spent on more drones, or larger defensive cruisers.
     
    Joined
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages
    139
    Reaction score
    31
    • Purchased!
    After some server-side testing I see what was meant about the AI being absolutely useless with dumbfire missiles. There's something about multiplayer servers that just completely wrecks the (admittedly lax) accuracy--my Resolute class hull uses a series of batteries, primary batteries comprised of missile cannons (no slave, just overdrive) and secondary batteries of rapid-fire missile cannons (1:1 missile/cannon/overdrive). My dumbfire drones were useless on the server even against pirates, and while my sledge drone prototypes weren't too bad the host was able to pop the small test wing I'd spawned in with a single swarm missile each (to be fair, his swarm array is colossal). My cannon turrets also managed to crash the server after a 10 minute slugfest, something my swarm of drones hadn't managed to do. Revamping my battleship concept to include softer lines, a proper combat bridge (buried deep in the heart of the ship), broadside salvo turrets with no elevation and limited traverse (in case the server crash had to do with how my turrets are encased ), and of course... a home for the Sledge Mk1 combat drone. Seeing up to 15k per impact is nice when the package is so itty bitty compared to my normal Battlefleet Gothic scale craft, and adding armed parasites to non-carrier screening craft seems like a nice force multiplier.

    Edit: Loadout What about the idea for jump-racks of modifying the timer-based release idea I used in my first rack, and set it up so that the light carrier pointed them in the right direction, undocked them, then broadcasted via wireless to the onboard jump engines to make them discharge -only- at the command of the flight officer, and then that signal would be stuck for X seconds (length of jump), before triggering the undock sequence?

    I'm already thinking of a spindly little unarmed modular carrier that undocks and throws box jump-racks. For extra lulz, pack a light turret of some kind (or a small lock-on missile array) on each one of those racks, making even the delivery systems a force multiplier.

    Just spitballing, but it seems like something that might make carriers even more versatile.
     
    Last edited:
    Joined
    Apr 8, 2014
    Messages
    535
    Reaction score
    277
    • Purchased!
    • Community Content - Bronze 2
    • Legacy Citizen 2
    ...adding armed parasites to non-carrier screening craft seems like a nice force multiplier.

    Edit: Loadout What about the idea for jump-racks of modifying the timer-based release idea I used in my first rack, and set it up so that the light carrier pointed them in the right direction, undocked them, then broadcasted via wireless to the onboard jump engines to make them discharge -only- at the command of the flight officer, and then that signal would be stuck for X seconds (length of jump), before triggering the undock sequence?

    I'm already thinking of a spindly little unarmed modular carrier that undocks and throws box jump-racks. For extra lulz, pack a light turret of some kind (or a small lock-on missile array) on each one of those racks, making even the delivery systems a force multiplier.

    Just spitballing, but it seems like something that might make carriers even more versatile.
    That's exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned a transport vessel, it is easily the most effective method of lining them up, however the distance thing is still an issue. I had considered using a wireless connector but you're basically making a scrub carrier with this method. So you would only get one wave, which may as well be better off equipped to a full carrier. Multiple waves would require additional connections to be made, which currently have to be in astronaut mode which is slow and dangerous in enemy territory....

    Although, when I think about it more, it'd work better if there was an area connector you could pass by, no astronaut mode and multiple racks could be loaded more rapidly, without having to make annoying connections between wireless blocks. I actually have a few older designs I could retrofit with jump drives to test this, so I'll hop on that shortly.

    Turrets on carrier racks doesn't work very well I've tried that and it almost always ends in disaster except with exposed racks. In this instance it might add a small amount of defense in the meantime. But it won't likely be enough to defend the racks from any direct assault. Roaming Isanth pirates definitely, but an actual player ship that's not just RP, not a chance.

    On the force multiplier note; drones will not automatically launch. AI ships have no clue how to use complex logic systems currently so keep in mind any AI ship you intend to have as a screening vessel, has at least some means of using those drones. External stalks that can be shot off work well so far in my first round of testing, assuming the drones aren't obliterated in the process. I'm also trying to use rail turrets(not axis block but actual rail block) with activation blocks underneath. If I can get that to work whenever a turret is lost drones will deploy, its an older method but one I have yet to try with actual rails.
     
    Joined
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages
    139
    Reaction score
    31
    • Purchased!
    That's exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned a transport vessel, it is easily the most effective method of lining them up, however the distance thing is still an issue. I had considered using a wireless connector but you're basically making a scrub carrier with this method. So you would only get one wave, which may as well be better off equipped to a full carrier. Multiple waves would require additional connections to be made, which currently have to be in astronaut mode which is slow and dangerous in enemy territory....

    Although, when I think about it more, it'd work better if there was an area connector you could pass by, no astronaut mode and multiple racks could be loaded more rapidly, without having to make annoying connections between wireless blocks. I actually have a few older designs I could retrofit with jump drives to test this, so I'll hop on that shortly.

    Turrets on carrier racks doesn't work very well I've tried that and it almost always ends in disaster except with exposed racks. In this instance it might add a small amount of defense in the meantime. But it won't likely be enough to defend the racks from any direct assault. Roaming Isanth pirates definitely, but an actual player ship that's not just RP, not a chance.

    On the force multiplier note; drones will not automatically launch. AI ships have no clue how to use complex logic systems currently so keep in mind any AI ship you intend to have as a screening vessel, has at least some means of using those drones. External stalks that can be shot off work well so far in my first round of testing, assuming the drones aren't obliterated in the process. I'm also trying to use rail turrets(not axis block but actual rail block) with activation blocks underneath. If I can get that to work whenever a turret is lost drones will deploy, its an older method but one I have yet to try with actual rails.
    The screening ships I've been thinking about are actually intended for player use, I'm trying to dial things back a bit in terms of not just building giant rectangles of doom, something to escort the battleship and have a bit better mobility at the expense of having less raw firepower and shielding. Also for use on smaller servers, since my battleships (only a few hundred meters in length!) tend to overwhelm the server and kill it after they've been shooting for a bit. But mostly for RP reasons and wanting to have a rounded out series of naval designs that I can share around.

    If the rack has enough juice to fire off a jump drive, it should have enough juice to cram a set of corvette-frigate sized lock-on missile launchers in it too. More just to add another irritant to your enemy (Gah! Even their BOXES shoot me!) than to add any real firepower to the fight. I mean unless you use a ton of timers that you remotely activate with a couple huge drones that spew out smaller drones that spew out smaller drones... but that's just getting recursively silly and probably belongs more in Schlock Mercenary than StarMade. ;)
     
    Joined
    Dec 3, 2013
    Messages
    552
    Reaction score
    182
    • Legacy Citizen 9
    • Purchased!
    • Community Content - Bronze 1
    drones that spew out smaller drones that spew out smaller drones...
    Droneception ! And why is it I think drones launching drones launching drones is a viable tactic now. Or maybe drones that deploy chaff.
    WAIT ! maybe drones that deploy more carriers ! TO THE LABS !
     
    Joined
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages
    139
    Reaction score
    31
    • Purchased!
    Droneception ! And why is it I think drones launching drones launching drones is a viable tactic now. Or maybe drones that deploy chaff.
    WAIT ! maybe drones that deploy more carriers ! TO THE LABS !
    ...Yeah... actually, there's your Jump Drive Drone. Logic-wire the thing up, and then set it up so that the big carrier drone splits apart into smaller drones--the carrier drone being huge would (once, I don't think anyone would fall for it two or three times) draw fire, make them dirt cheap so they're expendable pawns that still deal damage!

    So while the drone force comes from one direction, your actual fleet slips around the side and either flanks the target, or moves on to an actual target. Not terribly cost effective, but if they were set up as a sort of shadow fleet, methinks it would work for information warfare. I mean... if you're on a server that actually has players that try to gather and use intelligence. Their cloaked scout slides in and sees what look like 8 ships of the line, and assume that it's the total battlefleet, but in reality 4 of them are hollow drone carriers that exist solely to draw fire and add confusion. This would work best if they were formed in the same general shape as the actual ships of the line your faction used, though.
     

    StormWing0

    Leads the Storm
    Joined
    Jun 26, 2015
    Messages
    2,126
    Reaction score
    316
    • Community Content - Bronze 1
    Then there's servers like Aetherion that have ridiculous jump ranges where you could park on the other end of the universe after some good jump calculations and maybe clearing a path, than launch your drone fleet and wait for the screams. :P
     
    Joined
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages
    139
    Reaction score
    31
    • Purchased!
    I just have this image in my head now of Loadout standing on the bridge of some obscenely large drone screaming "WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW" and hitting a button that starts spitting smaller ships out of this Reaper clone that each launch more smaller ships until the server overloads and melts.
     
    Joined
    Apr 8, 2014
    Messages
    535
    Reaction score
    277
    • Purchased!
    • Community Content - Bronze 2
    • Legacy Citizen 2
    I just have this image in my head now of Loadout standing on the bridge of some obscenely large drone screaming "WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW" and hitting a button that starts spitting smaller ships out of this Reaper clone that each launch more smaller ships until the server overloads and melts.
    I do happen to have something like that actually.. I don't use it because people (generally) frown on melted circuit boards.

    erhrm.. anyways its been a little crazy here so where to start on the whole drone-ception thing. It's actually not technically a new idea, it started I would say about 5 or 6 months ago? give or take a little bit (probably longer). At that point I had released the M3 Launch Pad, which was a separate drone that released two of my Wisp drones. Can't believe that was 5 months ago.... man time flies, a while before that however I had the idea for a skoom drone that releases mini armed chaff drones, called that one the Skoom-pedo which was a portmanteau of Skoom-Drone and Torpedo of course that could never be officially released due to certain.. officials. Who opposed the name and shall thusly remain nameless. In any event the idea works out for those that are willing to try it.

    However it really is just turning a drone into a rack full of smaller drones. o_O Which begs the question why didn't you just make a bigger rack to begin with? Having a weaponized rack isn't a terribly big deal but having that release extra weaponized racks which release regular drones... It's so convoluted it almost makes me wanna recreate a certain movie scene with my drones.
     
    Joined
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages
    139
    Reaction score
    31
    • Purchased!
    I do happen to have something like that actually.. I don't use it because people (generally) frown on melted circuit boards.

    erhrm.. anyways its been a little crazy here so where to start on the whole drone-ception thing. It's actually not technically a new idea, it started I would say about 5 or 6 months ago? give or take a little bit (probably longer). At that point I had released the M3 Launch Pad, which was a separate drone that released two of my Wisp drones. Can't believe that was 5 months ago.... man time flies, a while before that however I had the idea for a skoom drone that releases mini armed chaff drones, called that one the Skoom-pedo which was a portmanteau of Skoom-Drone and Torpedo of course that could never be officially released due to certain.. officials. Who opposed the name and shall thusly remain nameless. In any event the idea works out for those that are willing to try it.

    However it really is just turning a drone into a rack full of smaller drones. o_O Which begs the question why didn't you just make a bigger rack to begin with? Having a weaponized rack isn't a terribly big deal but having that release extra weaponized racks which release regular drones... It's so convoluted it almost makes me wanna recreate a certain movie scene with my drones.
    This whole conversation sadly is sidelining me from building Asgard (The Einherjar Industries base station--starting to see a bit of a naming theme?) into trying to figure out how to convert my Resolute class battleship into a drone that releases corvette sized drones that release sledge drones... so that I can just stand on the bridge and watch it all while cackling with glee. Or... you know. Something not that absurd. The Sledge seems to work really well in decent numbers so after I put together the Midgard's first few floors (and lift tubes), I'm going to start working on a light combat carrier that I can make a few of and shove into specialized berths at Asgard. Sure, I can only fly one... but screenshots look more impressive if it looks like there's a bustling spaceport in the background. ;)

    I'm trying to decide whether or not to equip my standard capital ship batteries to the finished station or not--since the stations are invincible when they're the home base, is it worth it, or should I just set up a rack port on one side that dumps a couple hundred drones out for defense at the push of a button? See? Vaguely related to the point... :p

    Ahh, right. Well... at this point I'm no longer suggesting weaponized racks, I'm suggesting full automated combat craft that break off into smaller craft and one big craft. Who needs fleshbag gunners?!
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Loadout
    Joined
    Apr 8, 2014
    Messages
    535
    Reaction score
    277
    • Purchased!
    • Community Content - Bronze 2
    • Legacy Citizen 2
    ...
    Ahh, right. Well... at this point I'm no longer suggesting weaponized racks, I'm suggesting full automated combat craft that break off into smaller craft and one big craft. Who needs fleshbag gunners?!
    That's the spirit! Get rid of those fleshy airbreathing weaklings and replace them with cold hard margarita serving automata. On the plus side with fewer fleshies about you'll find it much easier to finish your crossword puzzle aboard the Asgard.
     
    Joined
    Apr 8, 2014
    Messages
    535
    Reaction score
    277
    • Purchased!
    • Community Content - Bronze 2
    • Legacy Citizen 2
    So after several (dozen) attempts, a broken mic and some noisy dogs.. I finally have a rough video intro to drones available.

    I plan on adding more to it later any suggestions you guys have, content wise, are more than welcome. I know I know, the mic sucks but it's not easy to get good audio with the wires hanging down the side of your head cause the dog thought it was a chew toy. >_< I'll get a new one in a couple weeks and hopefully some extra tid bits by then as well. eg: intro/outro, logos, banners and what have you.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Lecic
    Joined
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages
    139
    Reaction score
    31
    • Purchased!
    So after several (dozen) attempts, a broken mic and some noisy dogs.. I finally have a rough video intro to drones available.

    I plan on adding more to it later any suggestions you guys have, content wise, are more than welcome. I know I know, the mic sucks but it's not easy to get good audio with the wires hanging down the side of your head cause the dog thought it was a chew toy. >_< I'll get a new one in a couple weeks and hopefully some extra tid bits by then as well. eg: intro/outro, logos, banners and what have you.
    The audio quality is actually not that bad, honestly. You do a good job of not pausing too much or getting sidetracked off of the main point, and while the raw might have more of the pet noises it wasn't really noticeable on my end (admittedly, I don't have my 5.1 surround system plugged in, but I do still have a fairly decent speaker setup). It does a good job of letting the new viewer get an idea of what the base drone concept actually is (I would suggest adding block counts and dimensions to the next one to give an idea of the most efficient builds) and explains why gunships aren't cost effective.

    Given the huge difference between proper ship-mounted weapons, which are larger due to the general lack of space limitations, and drone weapons, which are itty bitty, I'd recommend that you put a breakdown on the drone size/configuration of weapons. I know I'm still not being efficient, as I just ended up cramming a patrol-corvette broadside weapon into my Sledge prototype, and it would probably be pretty helpful for anyone that hasn't obsessively binged read through this thread.

    I have a couple more days before I can further add to the collection of ideas and prototypes, as Midgard station's main focus last night was getting the lift core done (elevators are inefficient, I know, but Midgard isn't about efficiency, it's about putting together something cool looking with some useful systems built-in), and then building the initial framework for the small docking wing transport trams. I have to put each deck in, add an external wall, put in systems, finish the small ship docking terminals, and then make the capital ship/carrier terminal... which means I need to make my carrier as well...
     
    Joined
    Apr 8, 2014
    Messages
    535
    Reaction score
    277
    • Purchased!
    • Community Content - Bronze 2
    • Legacy Citizen 2
    BrotherLazarus

    Thanks for the heads up, I was planning on doing another video entirely about drone sized weapons so I'll be sure to definitely put that on the list. Some of the more staticy "pet noises" are actually the mic smacking me in the face as I was fervently moving while talking. >_< terrible habit of talking with hand gestures, and of course being excited about drones.

    The planned video list so far is;
    1. intro
    2. Drone sizes (nano, medium, heavy, corvette) and general types (which is based on weapons sooo...)
    3. Drone Weapons, and configurations (not sure if this should be a second video or not, maybe combine the above?)
    4. How to design drones, rules of design + tips
    5. Drone Racks and the many kinds there are
    6. Building your first carrier
     
    Joined
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages
    139
    Reaction score
    31
    • Purchased!
    BrotherLazarus

    Thanks for the heads up, I was planning on doing another video entirely about drone sized weapons so I'll be sure to definitely put that on the list. Some of the more staticy "pet noises" are actually the mic smacking me in the face as I was fervently moving while talking. >_< terrible habit of talking with hand gestures, and of course being excited about drones.

    The planned video list so far is;
    1. intro
    2. Drone sizes (nano, medium, heavy, corvette) and general types (which is based on weapons sooo...)
    3. Drone Weapons, and configurations (not sure if this should be a second video or not, maybe combine the above?)
    4. How to design drones, rules of design + tips
    5. Drone Racks and the many kinds there are
    6. Building your first carrier
    Speaking from experience (though I'm not exactly some successful youtuber or anything, I took a lot of my videos down off of the 2vN page because they were, frankly, garbage), it's a little easier to break things up, so I'd say keep 2 and 3 separate to keep focus. The first being your general breakdown, the second being an in-depth exploration (given your responses in this thread and how the introduction video flowed, I would expect that 2 and 3 each would be at least 12-15 minutes long once you got rolling) of weapon sizes, types, and configurations, and how they function with each class of drone (this one's important to the idjits like me that tend to go power over efficiency with prototypes).

    An off-the-cuff thought... has anyone tried cramming a jump inhibitor into a support/specialist drone yet?
     

    Lecic

    Convicted Lancake Abuser
    Joined
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages
    5,110
    Reaction score
    1,230
    • Thinking Positive Gold
    • Purchased!
    • Legacy Citizen 11
    An off-the-cuff thought... has anyone tried cramming a jump inhibitor into a support/specialist drone yet?
    It'd be more efficient to just have a small jump inhibitor on your main ship instead of using drones for it. The only use I really see with inhibitor drones is leaving them all over enemy space and the most likely routes between your space and enemy space to mess up their emergency drives.
     
    Joined
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages
    139
    Reaction score
    31
    • Purchased!
    Tangentially related...



    Finally got the engineering deck of Midgard Station complete, and since it's got a drone scanning berth (the first build with actual aesthetic touches), I crammed a Sledge in there. It has a drone in it, it's related!!! :P

    Actually, I ran into a snag and am going to have to build an aesthetic shell around the rather boxy station and was going to ask some advice... I'm considering building drone racks into the station with a launch command access in the control room that peels back a blast door and lets them swarm out instead of dedicated turrets on a station that is neither intended for being shot at, nor intended to really shoot at anything. Is that something viable, or should I just post a couple carriers nearby?

    Hopefully this will give the more aesthetically minded an idea of the space I have to play with for hidden drone bays. I've got it set to unlisted, as it's not actually one of the videos in the update cycle or even a proper video for StarMade, it was just a showcase of the progress I'd made on the station when I wrapped up construction around 0200 this morning.

    Pretty sure I have space for drone racks, since the shell is going to have to be anywhere from 2 to 8 blocks from the interior partitions, depending on location, but I'm not totally positive. The actual working components (power, shields, etc) are all hidden between decks or in sections where there would have been an aesthetic wall but then empty space behind it--it's supposed to look cramped and industrial. Flickering light logic clocks to come soon, but that's not really relevant.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Lecic