The Sentinel Alliance's Public Server - All Welcome

[KillaKrazy]

Was excited about a new server... But the saw that blueprint uploads are disabled. Just gonna have to wait for a new server to come out that will allow uploads.
Although I am interested in how you can say this is a PvP server but worried about OP ships and banning them?

 

[SentinelX 101]

Although I am interested in how you can say this is a PvP server but worried about OP ships and banning them?

First a clarification: We have no direct rules against OP ships yet we're still trying to limit them. We know that OP isn't a perfect term (as in very undefined and not always applicable, this is even something we've talked about amongst the staff) but we don't have a better one.

What we mean by OP:

• Large/High Rate of Distruction or Mining - This is a problem for all servers everywhere, ships that can mine a planet in seconds crash servers and cause lag. Things like the mass cap that almost all servers have (which we'll implement soon) attempt to address this. One other way we're addressing this is by disabling blueprint uploads, again this is a point of contention but I wouldn't take the improvement to server stability that this gives too lightly - having people work their way up to very large ships instead of getting them immediatly helps keep the server from massivly lagging a lot.
• Easy to Grief with - Certain people/factions build ships exclusivly for the purpose of griefing, ships that are extremely powerful and are in their hands expressly to bully say players that haven't spent a year building a battle ready ship that want to actually work their way up (new people are a big base of our players). As I mentioned previously in the brief time the server uploads were on we had a guy upload a ship 20 times more massive than the biggest ship on the server, he had been picking on the just starting people previously and using that ship would have made him unstopable for anyone just starting normally.

We're trying to make this server fairly friendly to new people or people just coming back. Now to be clear we've (The Sentinel Alliance) been here almost since the game started, we're veterans... but what we haven't been doing is buidling very large PVP ships throughout that time, I don't think the majority have and tell me if I'm being unfair.

I understand that the awesome PVP factions around have their amazing ships that took weeks to build that they want to play with (and thats cool) but what happens if they bring that against anyone that hasen't been building PVP ships like that:

1. They Win - No one building up from the start can hope to take something like that on, not even a person whos been there for a while. Titan class ships take a long time to build and they're incredibly powerful because of it, they involve careful fine tuning of things that can't be easily spammed like fighters with launch systems, armour, turrets with dedicated purposes, individual weapons plus effects, etc.
2. You Spawn in Someone Else's Blueprint - You spend a lot of time gathering resources to buy someone elses ship that you don't understand how to build and won't because you're outclassed... and you should be, titan ships take a while to make for a reason, they're rightly the kings of servers; pinnacles of destruction. But now you're new and you have no choice.

New or returning people make up a significant portion of our current player base, importantly including us as while this is very much a public server it's also a community server and The Sentinel Alliance is that community. And I think the no blueprint uploads helps new/returning people while at the same time balancing the server, significantly reducing lag, limiting griefing small people (AKA being a dick) and etc (see my previous posts/points).

Was excited about a new server... But the saw that blueprint uploads are disabled. Just gonna have to wait for a new server to come out that will allow uploads.

The no blueprint uploads rule is like Marmite, you either love it or you hate it and we understand that makes the server not for some people... But consider trying it anyway, even for those returning like us technically with their own old ships that could be brought on it's nice to start over in a fairly balanced setting.

Otherwise as XMB (Carnifex606) puts it in the quintessentially British way, have a nice day and thanks for the feedback.

 

[Matt_Bradock]

There are easy ways to counter the ships you mentioned, without disabling blueprint uploads. The server and the blockbehavior config can help a lot.
- To disable megaminers, you can limit the max number of outputs linked to a single computer, as many servers already do (2K outputs on Brierie, 250 outputs on GenX - just examples). This will keep salvage arrays at a reasonable size. The array simply won't work and pop up an error message if there are more groups than allowed.

- To get rid of OP megaships, just implement a lower mass limit. You can't forever protect the new/returning players from large, well-armed ships, eventually there will be people who no-life the game to get the goods and slap together a million mass doombrick. There are players like that, for example Elwyn Eternity had Joelbrisco, Brierie has SnakeRandal who still uses unimaginative doombricks despite the server allowing blueprint uploads. Hell, if someone really wanted their ships and has a strong enough computer, they can just save them piece by piece as templates and put them together that way. I say that as a victim of said unimaginative oversized doombricks. You know as well, since you're veterans yourselves that everything past 200K mass is just a sluggish turretfest with boring-ass gameplay as it's impossible to maintain a good thrust/mass ratio or turn rate at that point, making fights practically turret matches where the first to miraculously turn their bow towards the enemy and bring their massive spinal mounted weapons to bear, wins.

Disabling blueprint uploads, which I believe is a core feature of the game, only delays the appearance of your definition of OP ships, does not stop it. It does however, make inexperienced or returning players vulnerable for a longer period against griefers already present, when they arrive to the server, forcing them to spend days or weeks trying to design a competent vessel from the ground up, all the meanwhile being easy targets for the early birds on the server who already took their time to do so, massively shifting the power balance towards the already established factions - and as time passes, this will get only more prevalent.

 

[Az14el]

We know that OP isn't a perfect term (as in very undefined and not always applicable, this is even something we've talked about amongst the staff)

Do you have any actual practical reason? like different stats of blocks on the server?
This rule has been semi successful on a number of servers when they made dramatic changes to block behaviour that enforced both a unique playstyle & unique designs. It's good you realise how it is an imperfect term, but worrying that you still go ahead and enforce a rule around it. This is a rule that tells people only that they could lose their ships, not specifically why.

Some questions that may or may not be hard to answer, but are only the result of such rules being discussed
What exactly (blocks/sec with what weapon) is a high rate of destruction? & how would you limit this? (also a graph to help us stay within these margins would be ideal)

What exactly is a high rate of salvage? & how would you limit this? (as above)

What exactly is an extemely powerful ship? & how would you limit this? (^^^ + maximum of each system block contribution as a percentage for at least every single archetype of ship the dock can come up with)

What exactly is greifing? & how would you limit this? (hope you're sanguine about your choice of degree, you're an anthropologist now m8)

These are intentionally silly questions because when it comes down to faction drama you are going to have to mediate (largely as a result of all the unclear rules you have allowed both sides to call eachother out on instead of just being clear & pragmatic and forcing them to suck up a fair loss) some pretty silly god damn rule discussions.

I truly wish you all the best with your server, it's always a *potentially* cool idea when box owners are willing to try this just that it usually comes with a practical reason to do with block behaviour, i know im not a regular or anything (nor shopping for new servers) but since it's been such a popular discussion on the dock lately, i feel compelled to throw in my 0.2

 

[Mortiferum]

I have heard rather negative things about your server, namely people told me someone called out to the admins to ban IKindacrashalot before he is killed.

If admins cannot be trusted to be totally impartial then I am against going onto the server.

I think kulbolen might be able to provide more info

 

[Bogdan]

Post deleted. Delete this if taking up space.

 

[SentinelX 101]

I have heard rather negative things about your server, namely people told me someone called out to the admins to ban IKindacrashalot before he is killed.

If admins cannot be trusted to be totally impartial then I am against going onto the server.

The staff can be trusted and we've made great effort to remain impartial.

IKindaCrashALot was breaking rule #1. He was going about attacking the people that barely just joined demanding their either pay his 'tax' or he'd destroy their stuff and kill them over and over until they left. Several people even did leave the server permanently after having their ships destroyed by him.

Even immediatly after we banned him he tried to come on with several alt accounts to bypass it and continue being a dick, so we extended the ban.

I think kulbolen might be able to provide more info

Kulbolen was around at the time and could talk about it if he wants to.

I don't intend to speak for him so take this with a grain of salt but I think Kulbolen would backup the fact that IKindaCrashALot was being a dick.

Server Updates
Just to keep people informed on the latest server changes:

• Unexpected Downtime - We recently had a little unexpected downtime for a while, sorry about that... it happened while we were all asleep and we responded the second we got notification of it in the morning. We're still investigating the cause and working on a system to auto restart to server on furture crashes.
• Increased Sector Size - Based on feedback we've now increased the sector size to 8KM which thus far is working quite well. The size of asteroids has doubled to go along with this change now everything is a lot more spread out.

Also thanks for the other replies everyone, I've just skim read some of the big ones but I'll read/respond in full to those soon.

 

[Mortiferum]

He would also back up the fact that someones was like "no, ban him before he kills me, ban him before he kills me!!!" and told me about quite a bit of the shenanigans that occurred....

He also told me how despite Icrashalot was being a "dick", he also flogged the admins before he got whacked with a ban hammer.

My question still stands though, mind shedding some light on the circumstances in which it all occurred or is this another one of those server where admins go on power tripperinos because they got killed?

 

[Matt_Bradock]

One last thing on the blueprint topic, an elephant in the room no one seems to have addressed:

Building motivation is at an all-time low now that the power rework has been announced, knowing whatever you build now WILL be completely and utterly useless once it hits, or at least completely outdated and obsolete, only functioning if the parallel systems are enabled on the server you try to use it on. Starting a new server now and asking players to spend all their precious time building brand-new things they know will have to completely rebuild anyway in a few months, seems a "bit" contraptoductive.

 

[The_Owl]

So someone spawned a big ship and killed people, so you disabled BP uploading to """"prevent this"""""

All your're doing is delaying the issue that if someone has some sort of """OP ship""" That early on, it points to your server having a massive resource gain or stupid credit gain with infinite shops.

The issue most likely isn't the Ships being uploaded, it's your server config allowing it.

Aside from this i have no interest in a server that doesn't allow BP uploading, and i believe many, many other members will have no interest too.

 

[Carnifex606]

So someone spawned a big ship and killed people, so you disabled BP uploading to """"prevent this"""""

All your're doing is delaying the issue that if someone has some sort of """OP ship""" That early on, it points to your server having a massive resource gain or stupid credit gain with infinite shops.

The issue most likely isn't the Ships being uploaded, it's your server config allowing it.

Aside from this i have no interest in a server that doesn't allow BP uploading, and i believe many, many other members will have no interest too.

We aren't a space for older players to drop in their ships and start battling over old feuds. if older players don't want to play on this server due to this then that's fine, we respect their choice and wish them on their way.

One last thing on the blueprint topic, an elephant in the room no one seems to have addressed:

Building motivation is at an all-time low now that the power rework has been announced, knowing whatever you build now WILL be completely and utterly useless once it hits, or at least completely outdated and obsolete, only functioning if the parallel systems are enabled on the server you try to use it on. Starting a new server now and asking players to spend all their precious time building brand-new things they know will have to completely rebuild anyway in a few months, seems a "bit" contraptoductive.

That's a very good point and we understand this, but there are still builders out their that like to make ships, I personally continue to make ships knowing full well of this update. one of the core virtues of this server is for the creation of new content for the server. people are allowed to download their own blueprints of course should they wish to take their ships to other servers later on but we stand by not allowing in blueprints spawning. if you do not wish to play on our server then have a nice day and I wish you luck on your travels.
[doublepost=1497359599,1497359096][/doublepost]

He would also back up the fact that someones was like "no, ban him before he kills me, ban him before he kills me!!!" and told me about quite a bit of the shenanigans that occurred....

He also told me how despite Icrashalot was being a "dick", he also flogged the admins before he got whacked with a ban hammer.

My question still stands though, mind shedding some light on the circumstances in which it all occurred or is this another one of those server where admins go on power tripperinos because they got killed?

After joining the server and sharing his thoughts with frustration on our no local blueprints rule he proceeded to join with multiple accounts to gain extra starting resources and after creating his faction (Vagyr Alliance) then built a spawn killing space station and a doomcube that he used to chase down non-admin players, the only admin of the server is SentinelX 101 so no, he didn't kill any admins. The players he did kill though, (and he knocked a couple of blocks out of my ship as well) where the random players who im happy joined us all approved of the banning of the user and after the discovery of using multiple logins we feel it was more than justified.

Feel free to ask kulbolen as he was there during the incident, though I don't believe he was informed about IKindaCrashAlot's use of multiple accounts.

We are sorry if anyone was upset about this choice but we stand by it. Have a nice day.

 

[The_Owl]

Carnifex606 the fast resume of your post = Is our server and we do there the "stuff" we want.

And yeah no problem with that, who real have a problem is that server of yours.

Check other servers that use the no Bps uploads, and check what happened. [Galaxy aflame for example]. If you think that really you can "sell" the no Bps uploads as something good, i think you do not know really well the human nature.

It's not even human nature, it's just people don't want to put in the effort for something that they have no idea how long will last when they already have BP that work.

Aside from the fact that the "ship was too OP" which is useless because it points to the mining multiplayer being stupid high or them having an infinite shop and massive credit game.

also, the rules pretty much mean that it's going to be Turtle central with fights only happening if both players agree.

Honestly the server just seems doomed to fail

 

[Carnifex606]

It's not even human nature, it's just people don't want to put in the effort for something that they have no idea how long will last when they already have BP that work.

Aside from the fact that the "ship was too OP" which is useless because it points to the mining multiplayer being stupid high or them having an infinite shop and massive credit game.

also, the rules pretty much mean that it's going to be Turtle central with fights only happening if both players agree.

Honestly the server just seems doomed to fail

Well it that case we shall fail in style, once again this is a public server and our players do mean something to us but it is also a community server and as arrogant as it may sound we are entitled to run our server as we wish, we play the game for fun and as SentinelX 101 has made clear, if you have no intention of playing on it then that's fine and we wish you the best.

Carnifex606 the fast resume of your post = Is our server and we do there the "stuff" we want.

And yeah no problem with that, who real have a problem is that server of yours.

Check other servers that use the no Bps uploads, and check what happened. [Galaxy aflame for example]. If you think that really you can "sell" the no Bps uploads as something good, i think you do not know really well the human nature.

We understand human nature and we do care about our players, but once again it is a community server (see point above)

 

[Calhoun]

It's not even human nature, it's just people don't want to put in the effort for something that they have no idea how long will last when they already have BP that work.

Aside from the fact that the "ship was too OP" which is useless because it points to the mining multiplayer being stupid high or them having an infinite shop and massive credit game.

also, the rules pretty much mean that it's going to be Turtle central with fights only happening if both players agree.

Honestly the server just seems doomed to fail

Owl actually has a point for once, If the ship was 'too big' that points to a separate issue, namely the fact that they could fill said blueprint that quickly.

 

[Carnifex606]

Owl actually has a point for once, If the ship was 'too big' that points to a separate issue, namely the fact that they could fill said blueprint that quickly.

I do agree in that being a solid point but once again, thats only for players who have played on multiple servers in that past and already have an arsenal of ships at the ready, whilst those people are more than welcome here our main demographic is for players who don't already have their entire fleet designed and sitting comfortably in blueprints

 

[Calhoun]

I do agree in that being a solid point but once again, thats only for players who have played on multiple servers in that past and already have an arsenal of ships at the ready, whilst those people are more than welcome here our main demographic is for players who don't already have their entire fleet designed and sitting comfortably in blueprints

I'm going to have to disagree. To use myself as an example, I have about 3 or 4 ships I'd use on a server like this, none of which are very large. But I personally am not going to join a server where I have to either rebuild from scratch or design an entire new ship just 'because'. Players aren't going to spend the couple of days required to make a nice, aesthetically pleasing and functional ship on a survival server, they'll just throw down a bunch of power, shields and guns and call it a day.

Completely Disabling blueprints is a very knee-jerk reaction, why not just put a mass limit on uploaded BP's? The admin would have to enforce it, but frankly that wouldn't be difficult.

 

[Carnifex606]

I'm going to have to disagree. To use myself as an example, I have about 3 or 4 ships I'd use on a server like this, none of which are very large. But I personally am not going to join a server where I have to either rebuild from scratch or design an entire new ship just 'because'. Players aren't going to spend the couple of days required to make a nice, aesthetically pleasing and functional ship on a survival server, they'll just throw down a bunch of power, shields and guns and call it a day.

Completely Disabling blueprints is a very knee-jerk reaction, why not just put a mass limit on uploaded BP's? The admin would have to enforce it, but frankly that wouldn't be difficult.

Well a large amount of our players agreed with the choice. while we will take the idea of mass limits into consideration and we do thank you for it as it is a solid idea, I think for now we will be sticking to our current format, though that does not mean we are resistant to change, we will just take the time to properly consider mass limits instead compared to our current format. Have a nice day.

 

[Matt_Bradock]

Mass limits are exactly what'd protect the new players you so often use as an excuse to defend your current settings. Keeping ships at a manageable size is what lets the new guys experiment (even by disecting Community Content blueprints) and learn without being threatened by getting oneshot, or easily overwhelmed by a single veteran in a solo titan. Hell, I personally learned how to build combat effective on GenXNova when it had a meager 250K block ship size limit enforced, because I couldn't just "throw in a couple thousand more blocks", I had to learn how to bring the maximum out of what I had. If I hadn't been part of that community and met people like DrTarDIS to learn from them, I probably still wouldn't have the slightest idea what I'm doing when it comes to systems. So, if you truly want to make the server new player friendly, then -really- consider implementing a mass limit, and don't just "put it into consideration" because I know from working in HR what that means. That means sending it right down the shredder the moment the guy turns his back on me.

 

[Carnifex606]

Mass limits are exactly what'd protect the new players you so often use as an excuse to defend your current settings. Keeping ships at a manageable size is what lets the new guys experiment (even by disecting Community Content blueprints) and learn without being threatened by getting oneshot, or easily overwhelmed by a single veteran in a solo titan. Hell, I personally learned how to build combat effective on GenXNova when it had a meager 250K block ship size limit enforced, because I couldn't just "throw in a couple thousand more blocks", I had to learn how to bring the maximum out of what I had. If I hadn't been part of that community and met people like DrTarDIS to learn from them, I probably still wouldn't have the slightest idea what I'm doing when it comes to systems. So, if you truly want to make the server new player friendly, then -really- consider implementing a mass limit, and don't just "put it into consideration" because I know from working in HR what that means. That means sending it right down the shredder the moment the guy turns his back on me.

We aren't a business. we are a group of friends. so I will bring it up with them and the admin later, so for now I will put it into consideration.
[doublepost=1497366467,1497366335][/doublepost]

Human nature tends to freedom, in other words you are banning a normal feature in this game without a reason aparence.

Please be logical if you answered this post because the reasons given for that "exotic rule" are not.



In the moment that you look for people from outside the server is not totally a "community server".

By community server we mean this is The Sentinel Alliance (as in the community) Starmade server, meaning we have a say in what happens with the server just as much as any other player.

 

[Matt_Bradock]

may I at least suggest uploading and making public some very basic blueprints from the Community Content to give new players an idea or something to use as inspiration or temporary solution until they learn the know-how, since they can't get them from the Dock? I'm talking about small basic stations and/or mining ships, cheap but with basic functionality. There's multiple to choose from on the Community Content, hell, feel free to use even mine.