Target Painting

[Edymnion]

Was going through some clips of things, and ran into this:

Its from the live action Space Battleship Yamato, but pay specific attention to what the fighters are doing (aside from just fighting).

They're painting targets.

For those that don't know, "painting a target" is a military term meaning that you are marking a specific target for destruction. Laser guided missiles work by "painting the target" with a laser that the missile then follows. You could also have a spy/scout go into enemy territory to paint targets by getting exact GPS coordinates for gun embankments so that an offshore ship can fire on that location.

I think that could be an INCREDIBLY fun mechanic if we could figure out how to make it work in Starmade. Give fighters some really good practical use beyond just being glorified flak or death by a thousand cuts. If fighters could be used to scout targets and send priority target lists back to a main gunship, which in turn would direct all turret fire to those specific targets it could be really fun.

Imagine a nice large scale fleet vs. fleet fight where the turrets on the big ships are shooting at everything until a fighter gets in close to the other guy's command ship and starts painting high priority targets so that the gunships on your side can all focus fire on the same spot.

Perhaps a change in shield mechanics to allow targeted strikes on turrets to drop the turret shields for half a second or so before the main ship's shields re-establish so that enough concentrated fire could break through and destroy the turret without the main ship becoming especially vulnerable.

Or maybe some kind of close proximity shield jammer that could be carried by a smaller ship to drop the shields on a docked entity, allowing main guns to take it out? Make it so a human pilot in a fighter could have a direct and individual outcome on a battle between titans by using actual skill to fly in close enough to paint a main turret and fire off a shield jammer pulse so that the big guns behind him can vaporize the target.

 

[Captain Tankman]

Maybe when an enemy ship get's marked, all allied ships have a decreased lock-on time with missile/beam and missile/pulse.

 

[Edymnion]

Maybe when an enemy ship get's marked, all allied ships have a decreased lock-on time with missile/beam and missile/pulse.

Or perhaps anything dumbfire has 100% accuracy on a painted target?

Cannon fire, dumbfire missiles, etc. Basically if you've painted the target, you can't miss it. Long as it's in range, you're golden.

Would need to keep it from being too easily abuse, maybe give it a long lock on time, and only have the effect last a second or two. But in that second or two an entire fleet can unload everything it's got.
[doublepost=1478195310,1478195132][/doublepost]Ooh, or maybe say that swarmers will always go for a painted target in range. Would mean you could essentially dumb fire missile/missile and hit everything in range (including your own guys), or if you can paint targets they will go always go after those specifically.

Allow a good use for swarmers in fleet action, just that they need specific setup conditions.

 

[jayman38]

Painting a target would be a very valuable effect, by allowing a "painter" (small ship) to identify a specific location for guided weapons and AI turrets. Basically, it becomes a "Fire Here" command for various missiles and AI pods, so that firepower can be concentrated. Then you have a lot of weapons breaking through a single, small area of armor to attack the squishy gooey filling. This reduces the spread on weapons, so you aren't wasting a lot of firepower on armor blocks. Or a turret can be painted for quick elimination.

Maybe a ship can paint a target to turn its own heat-seeking missiles into lock-on missiles.

In general, maybe "painting" could be an intuitive way for a fleet commander to concentrate his force on specific targets.

To further expand on the concept, maybe "painting" could be used to indicate a specific location, such as a staging area on a planet's surface, or a docking platform for multiple frigates.

Naturally, it would allow a mining supervisor to get AI miner drones to focus on a single asteroid.

 

[Brokengauge]

For use with lock on missiles:
Have left click paint the target, then right click to fire, while painting, and your missiles will go to that specific point. If you stop painting your target through your missiles flight however, they either revert to normal lock on behavior, or lose lock altogether. simply firing the missiles after a lock w/o painting makes them operate normally.

On the receiving end, if I am being painted, a visual cue of some sort would alert me to the need to change my tactics. perhaps a flashing warning on the hud?

I think perhaps Sharing targeting telemetry between combatants might be a bit of a trick, but maybe letting you paint your targets for your own missiles would be just as effective. of course, one of the main uses for this would be for giant guns to shoot at targets they can't see, so perhaps this past paragraph is a waste of breath. space. type-face. whatever.

Alternately, if painting is a separate effect from any weapons, then have the Bobby's able to hone in on it?

Just spit-balling here.

 

[Lukwan]

Ooh, or maybe say that swarmers will always go for a painted target in range. Would mean you could essentially dumb fire missile/missile and hit everything in range (including your own guys), or if you can paint targets they will go always go after those specifically.

I though that heat-seekers avoided being OP precisely because they could not be targeted. I can see abuse potential if they were included. Otherwise I would support the concept of a commander painting an Alpha-Target with a 'you-die-next' laser.

 

[Malacodor]

Was expecting a suggestion about heavy-calibered paint ball guns.

 

[KiloZulu]

I can see this working for the heat seeking missile - causing all such missile to go after the painted target. Given that I've had heat seekers wander off in search of a base in the next sector and ignore the enemy swarming around my ship, that's a good thing. As for balance, the difficulty in keeping a laser aimed at a target of any distance, or fast-moving, would help keep things under control. I haven't seen the Bobby AI to be particularly accurate with beam weapons, so I think it would be okay on a turret. If Schine can adjust the accuracy of point defense turrets, I'd imagine that they could decrease accuracy on something like this.

 

[Madman198237]

I really like the idea of target-painting, but only as something like a priority set for Aim at: "Any" turrets.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Was expecting a suggestion about heavy-calibered paint ball guns.

HIJACKED!!!

[doublepost=1478227488,1478227392][/doublepost]Thread hijack hijinks aside, I like the idea. Maybe tie it into warhead guidance so torpedoes can focus on a specific target.

 

[Edymnion]

I though that heat-seekers avoided being OP precisely because they could not be targeted. I can see abuse potential if they were included. Otherwise I would support the concept of a commander painting an Alpha-Target with a 'you-die-next' laser.

The reason they aren't OP due to them hitting everything is because they are a one click fire and forget. You click fire, they shoot off and automatically hit everything.

If you have to stop and paint targets first, then you aren't on a "one click to win" button anymore, you've got more akin to a mass lock-on missile array.

 

[Lukwan]

If you have to stop and paint targets first, then you aren't on a "one click to win" button anymore, you've got more akin to a mass lock-on missile array.

...OK...maybe just a tiny nerf then. I do like the idea of someone accidently losing target lock at the moment they release a salvo then watching with horror as it veers towards their own allies.

 

[Brokengauge]

...OK...maybe just a tiny nerf then. I do like the idea of someone accidently losing target lock at the moment they release a salvo then watching with horror as it veers towards their own allies.

Hell, why not enable your own missiles to come back at you as well? that would better balance the risk/reward for ppl who are all by their lonesome.

 

[Edymnion]

...OK...maybe just a tiny nerf then. I do like the idea of someone accidently losing target lock at the moment they release a salvo then watching with horror as it veers towards their own allies.

Heh, you mean... timing and strategy would be important instead of just "who has the biggest guns and the itchiest trigger finger?"

Inconceivable!

 

[aRottenKomquat]

Was expecting a suggestion about heavy-calibered paint ball guns.

We're getting off-topic, but it would be fun if ships had a "simulated combat mode" that allowed friendly combat, even between ships of the same faction, with no lasting damage. Weapons systems that do no damage at all would be a very easy feature to start something like that and could be used to practice firing and maneuvering.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

We're getting off-topic, but it would be fun if ships had a "simulated combat mode" that allowed friendly combat, even between ships of the same faction, with no lasting damage. Weapons systems that do no damage at all would be a very easy feature to start something like that and could be used to practice firing and maneuvering.

100% ion effect.

 

[KiloZulu]

Seems to me there is some inherent balance in the fact that, while you're painting a target, you're not doing much of anything else. Holding down that mouse button while missiles travel to a target, and trying to keep the cursor actually on a target that may just be a pixel in the distance, means you aren't maneuvering, firing any other weapons, or using any other systems. This actually makes the system less practical than a guided missile system, which only holds your attention while you're obtaining a lock.

 

[Brokengauge]

Seems to me there is some inherent balance in the fact that, while you're painting a target, you're not doing much of anything else. Holding down that mouse button while missiles travel to a target, and trying to keep the cursor actually on a target that may just be a pixel in the distance, means you aren't maneuvering, firing any other weapons, or using any other systems. This actually makes the system less practical than a guided missile system, which only holds your attention while you're obtaining a lock.

Although, the way it's being suggested, you'd have a small fighter or similar sized vessel close up and painting you, able to dodge and maneuver. the real threat would be from whomever you're being painted for.

Of course, I'd just purpose build these ships to be small, fast, and stealthy...

 

[KiloZulu]

Although, the way it's being suggested, you'd have a small fighter or similar sized vessel close up and painting you, able to dodge and maneuver. the real threat would be from whomever you're being painted for.

Of course, I'd just purpose build these ships to be small, fast, and stealthy...

Now they're using two or more players to utilize one weapon, which seems even less efficient. That also raises another question - what happens if there are multiple painters in use at the same time?

 

[Madman198237]

Missile confusion, just like in a battle. That, or the ability to designate a vessel as a fleet scout, and everything in that vessel's squadron (ADD THEM, PLEASE) will follow the painted target.