Suggestion: Use Our Suggestions

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    Its just that I searched though all of these brillaint and even necessary suggestions for improvements to the game, and didn't find any of the features that were actually added in the last update. And now all the players on my server are complaining that the economy is broken because you can build anything you want out of dirt with the new crafting dohickey. So yeah ...

    [UPDATE]

    In the original post I have to confess I was (and still am) a bit annoyed with this redundant, seemingly broken crafting thingy that was added, but Schema himself is full of some really creative (if not fully thought out lol) ideas. I just hope that he goes through a nice phase of improving/tweaking existing features and statistics, instead of continuing to roll out more things to confuse and confound us. :P
     
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    Agreed with the complaint about the new crafting thing, a toggle to turn it off, or a way to customize it, would\'ve been very welcome.
     
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    If you really want things to happen Schema probably wont be against a little help if you know how to code and are willing to do so for free. But you better ask Schema, I\'m just guessing.
     
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    It\'s probably far better if Schema ignores the suggestions forum entirely. Most have no serious thought put into them to integrate with an already failing game balance , and probably end up very costly coding time-wise.

    Testers can look into useful concepts , then discuss and possibly relay them , though right now there\'s far too few for that task.
     
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    I don\'t know about you, but I\'ve seen quite a few very good ideas in the forums. Certianly better ideas than just giving free resources to everyone without a way for server owners to shut it off.
     
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    I wouldn\'t say \"It\'s probably far better if Schema ignores the suggestions forum entirely.\"

    There are a couple of issues it seems everyone agrees on:

    2. Thrusters / manouvering needs work (but it looks to me that was always the plan anyway)

    1. Almost universal agreement that bigger guns hit harder AND shoot faster needs to be changed.
     
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    Then why care? we have inside forum \"Suggestions\" for our ideas don\'t we?

    If Schema will ignore it, why should we spend our time and money on this product if it wont meet our expectations?

    And about testers they are also humans, sometimes arrogant ignorants, and they may have also stupid ideas, and they can judge like that. So i wouldnt leave decisions how to shape whole game to bunch of \"elite\" individuals. Let them do theirs main job which is searching for bugs, exploits etc.

    Decisions on ideas, either leave it all to schema( it would swamp him for good ) or introduce community voting system.

    Or I\'m 100% sure ppl will loose interest in it soon, we can not forget that SM is not only sandbox game in space atm, there is lots of projects that are ambitious and interesting , and there are others that will emerge soon and it will be challenge for SM team to keep up.

    Im my opinion with present situation it doesnt look like bright future for SM.
     
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    I think you\'re wrong about the future of Starmade ... in it\'s current state it\'s massively promising. My only concern is that Schema will have the wrong bees buzzing in his ear about what to do with the game ... this odd crafting system and personal weapons and stuff ... these (in my opinion) are poor concepts that go in the wrong direction for a game about building space-ships. There needs to be more focus on balancing what\'s there, studying how it actually plays and making tweaks to give existing systems more viability instead of just adding more things and hoping some \"plugin making community\" will emerge later to sort things out. That\'s my worst fear. All we can do is hope he shifts his focus back onto the blocks, and adding more complexity to existing elements of the game.
     
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    In my opinion I find this new facet of the game pretty interesting, as it\'ll allow boarding action, a viable and efficient tactic if you want to capture an enemy ship without doing it too much damage... but I understand your idea about completing the core of the game before adding other stuff. But don\'t forget that the game is still in alpha stage, where anything can happen. We are currently where the core of the game is built so expect a lot of changes, a lot of new stuff, as it\'ll not only be a space game, we\'ll have a planetside(groundside) aspect to deal with too. the game will still be space exploration. But it\'ll be also about meeting alien spieces and dealing/exchanging with them. You really want the game to be only pvp ? or a sandbox museum of gigantic ships? I see it as much more than that, and it\'s going on the right way. but it\'s my two cents. :)
     
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    It takes time to code things, framework and infrastructure has to be built before any new feature is added. That takes time. Its clear no one who has replied has ever programmed anything beyond changing a few variables. So i\'ll just leave that to that.

    A lot of the suggestions arent well thought-out or they conflict with the way schema wants the game to be like. Schemas making his game, not your game. Also a TON of the suggestions on this forum are gameplay elements that cant even be realized until mid beta, not in late alpha. Schema has a roadmap of requirements to be met before this game goes version 0.1.

    He has to make rudimentary versions of what he wants in the game, so it can be expanded upon later, and balanced later. In this period of rudimentary versions of gameplay elements, it\'s completely understandable that things will be unblanced. Whats the point of balancing something when the next thing he adds will just unbalance it again? give Schema a break please.

    (This message brought to you by a surrly programmer, and it in no way reflects the views of the tester community.) ~ Love Alviss
     
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    I couldn\'t have put it any better myself. The suggestions forum is just that; suggestions. Just because you SUGGESTED it does not mean schema is bound to implement it.
     
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    I\'m sick of people replying to my suggestions with \"the game is still in alpha\" and \"coding is hard\" ... Although Alviss you make a point in my favor without realizing it. \"... framework and infrastructure has to be built before any new feature is added\". As of the last 2 updates, there is a memory leak that is causing the auto-save feature not to work properly after the server has been running for a while. The auto-restart in response to this consists of a countdown that gets reset every time the game tries to autosave, which by default is only half as long as the shutdown timer! I mean LOLZ at your infrastructure comment there. New things are being added that are literally making other features of the game redundant (factory blocks vs the \"craft anything with dirt\" thingy).

    Secondly, this isn\'t some big budget, linear open world, or GTA-style sandbox game, it\'s an indie game that is more or less playing off of the attention of the minecraft community. Go out and talk to 5 of your friends about this game (or minecraft) ... you know as well as I do that only one or optimistically two will show any semblance of interest. This is a niche in a niche of a game. The community you see here, on these forums, right now today, is the bread and butter of who will be buying and supporting this game throughout it\'s entire life cycle. Starmade must have at least conceptually been built on the idea that Schema saw a demand for a space block game. Demand = WE WANT. As minecraft evolved, it was more because of players creating plugins to turn the game into what they want. Not because of how it stood on it\'s own. Now as starmade is released the way it is, in alpha, with this big fancy forum for \"tester\" interaction and suggestions, it would be downright stupid not to follow through with the plan of creating this space block game that we WANT. What better way to do that than try to find ways to give us what we ask for?

    Yeah, almost all of the additions to the game have been awesome aside from that odd crafting thing, and I know tons more will be added, but if it\'s not refined now, when will it be? Will the way two players can make each other rich buying and selling items to shops be fixed? Will item values be balanced? Will salvaging ever NOT be op? Will that ridiculous crafting thingamajiggy ever become something well integrated? Maybe, I mean I venture to say of course it will. Schema does have a plan I think. But the community isn\'t responding to his plan. They\'re responding to what they get to see. That\'s the dangerous dynamic of an open alpha game. Here we are, the players who will love the changes and stay, wait out through x amount of updates that still have the same fundamental java errors, or not.

    Understand, I\'m invested in this game from an administrative standpoint. My server (server.starjita.com:4242) is one of the most powerful and solid servers out there, we pay $250 a month for our hardware, and I\'ve spent countless hours since we started this thing trying to work with the limited admin tools to create something cohesive. I would have thought the admin mechanics would have been more elaborate and stable by now as well, but there\'s still no OP, there\'s no \"server owned structures\", there\'s no player signatures on ships, or ways to allow piloting without editing for events and games ... this seems like something that would be part of the early process of putting down groundwork for a game that\'s designed to be hosted by dedicated servers. But it\'s not there. My optimism is revitalized every time an update comes out, but then it\'s usually tarnished again as the same java error starts to take a dump in my ram, or the same auto saving error persists. Or my ship still breaks into mysterious pieces when I TP to a player. FUNDAMENTAL things we need to run stable, effective and competitive servers, to KEEP YOUR attention as players. Starmade needs these things to stay viable and interesting. Schema can add all the guns and graphics in the world, but if the servers aren\'t stable, and the voices aren\'t heard, then this game\'s launch will consist of the players you see here, on these forums. I hope and dream that it will be more than that. This is not a complaint or a threat. It\'s a plight and a hope for refocus. I\'m begging here :)
     
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    \"As of the last 2 updates, there is a memory leak that is causing the auto-save feature not to work properly after the server has been running for a while\"

    Sometimes, when things are added, it breaks things. Did you play indev/indef minecraft? And it\'s not always a case of a misspelled variable, sometimes it\'s a dependancy that didnt get recompiled, an inheriting class that wasnt updated to reflect changes to a new class. Hand-held weapons inherits from the meta-item class, for instance.

    \"(factory blocks vs the \"craft anything with dirt\" thingy).\"

    The reason why old blocks arent removed, and are simply depreciated is an act of phasing them out. every blocktype thats added has an idnumber, as you\'re likely well-aware. They arent removed because then you have a gap in your index. That gap will cause errors in any function that loops through that index (Index out of range error for instance). They are left in until there is a new blocktype that can replace them. Also, if you tried to load a ship with a undefined block (or custom block) it (used to) crash the server. Error checking for that was implemented a few weeks ago. He might also not have removed all those special factory blocks because he has future plans for them.

    \"Your second paragraph in general\"

    Read my reply again, it\'s pretty much a response. But just for giggles, i\'ll reiterate it. Schema is building his game, the game he wants to play. Mojang is building minecraft, and they didnt open the API until LATE LATE beta, as you may or may not remember. Mojang is building their game, they opened the API so people could make the game more to their liking, which is excellent, and promises longetivity for any game. Schema will be making the game mod-able when the infrastructure is laid. Whats the point in writing a mod that alters classes and gameplay when it will be broken 3 days? Or whoes version rendered obsolete in a week? Also, as i stated before, a TON of the suggestions are asking for implementing gameplay elements that cannot be realized until mid/late beta, and some would require totally unique infrastructure. To sum this up, schema\'s building HIS game, not ours. Because of this fact, he\'s making it modable to let us make the game more to our liking. The game will be made modable when core features and elements are added (likely mid beta).

    \"Your third paragraph\"

    Your venture is well-spent. The game will be balanced and many exploits fixed sooner than you think. You may say you understand this is an alpha, but i think you misunderstand the scope of that. Alpha and Beta literally means work in progress, you cannot expect anything to be even remotely balanced until full release (version 1.0). The fact it\'s as well off as it is now is because of forsight and the efforts of the community on the whole. The only reason any game allows people to play during beta, is for balancing, and a vast horde of people catching and reporting bugs. The reason you\'re playing right now is to show Schema what needs fixing. Youre all doing a fantastic job, and the only reason schema is taking time to fix exploits and not-game-breaking-bugs to keep you guys appeased, and still playing. I dont want to be a sour bitch, but playing before release is not a right, it\'s a privilege.

    \"I would have thought the admin mechanics would have been more elaborate and stable by now as well\"

    Im surprised they are any tools at all. This is an alpha, and as of 3 months ago there were 2 dedicated servers, all of whom had maybe 10 people on a day. Those tools were brought in long ago, and did what they were required to do. Now, yes, they are outdated and clunky, but they also arent permanent, new tools are being developed.

    As far as im concerned what we\'re doing now walkiing the path to creating the game. Every feature you see added before this goes 1.0 is a privilege. By posting your concerns you\'re setting the devs on the path to implementing the features and tools you desire, and fixing the bugs you hate. But you must realize, this is an Alpha, you cannot expect a thing. If you paid the 3 maybe 6 dollars to preorder this game, you did it in full knowledge it was just that, a preorder. If this was Rome Total War 2, you wouldnt even be playing it right now. Keep posting your suggestions and concerns with server tools, and any feature in general, because thats the big ticket. But when it comes to null pointer errors and those glitches, dont be, dare i say, upset, you must be patient and have faith they\'ll be addressed in due time.
     
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    When Minecraft came out, there was never anything like it. Ever. So when it saw it\'s peak of success BECAUSE of the dedicated host community and all the awesome plugins, the lesson was learned. Now, post-minecraft, this block game emerges. I didn\'t discover it until just a few weeks ago, and I saw evidence that Schema was operating realistically in this post-minecraft world, where he took notice of certain necessities and realities, such as the fact that it\'s the online community, and the server admins, that really do the leg work to draw the crowd. Just go check out reddit.com/r/starmade and you\'ll see what an impact I\'ve tried to make in just over a week.

    Long story short, I want to see more features that cater to the fact that online dedicated hosts will be the voice, arms and legs of the Starmade community, and (given the fact that there are already admin commands built in) it would be wonderful to see the game evolve to be more admin-friendly and flexible out of the box, which it has plenty of potential to achieve at this stage. I just want to SEE it happen. So I say so. On this here forum. Maybe it would end up the way I want it to be if I didn\'t say something, but the combination of me having my doubts + a forum designed specifically to discuss the future of the game and what we hope to see, I just can\'t resist. Can you blame me? :P
     
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    every blocktype thats added has an idnumber, as you\'re likely well-aware. They arent removed because then you have a gap in your index. That gap will cause errors in any function that loops through that index




    You could still remoev factory blocks form the shop and cubatom (literally the only places you can get them). You don\'t have to remove the item from the game data/index, just make it unavailable to players. Or remove the functionality of the item and leave it as a cosmetic block.




    He might also not have removed all those special factory blocks because he has future plans for them.


    Then disable them until those plans are ready. the cubatom and factory systems do not co-exist well.


    Mojang is building minecraft, and they didnt open the API until LATE LATE beta, as you may or may not remember. Mojang is building their game, they opened the API so people could make the game more to their liking, which is excellent, and promises longetivity for any game.


    Players cracked open and started modding minecraft LONG before the API was opened, and Mojang start implimenting mod feature into the base game LONG before the API was opened. Players have been shaping the development of minecraft since mid-alpha.




    The reason you\'re playing right now is to show Schema what needs fixing. Youre all doing a fantastic job, and the only reason schema is taking time to fix exploits and not-game-breaking-bugs to keep you guys appeased


    But he\'s not fixing anything, gameplay-wise. He\'s introducing \'features\' that don\'t require play testers at all until he actually does start fixing things. Would it be such a ballache to change the shop buy prices to a fracion of their sell prices? I can\'t imagine it would take longer to do that than to introduce redundant crafting features.




    I dont want to be a sour bitch, but playing before release is not a right, it\'s a privilege.


    It becomes a right when you pay for it. And I see you have payed for it.


    If you paid the 3 maybe 6 dollars to preorder this game, you did it in full knowledge it was just that, a preorder.


    You go on the \'Buy\' page up there and tell me where it says pre-order. To do you the same courtesy I went on the steam page for Rome II; it deffinately says pre-order. It may be an alpha, but what you pay for is the game as it is now and throughout development and release and when you pay for that, being able to play it is absolutely a right and not a priveledge.
     

    MrFURB

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    Well well well, I\'m glad I found this gem of a thread before things get rolling further downhill.

    Let me summarize why the chance of suggestions being implimented is so low and why there are some rather strange ideas coming from the dev team at this point.

    Right now, the design team for Starmade is essentially Schema, Calbiri, and Beetlebear (In order of influence), with other active testers/devs having some say every now and then. Having all your ideas be based around 3 people is... Well, it\'s easy to coordinate, but unless you have people constantly buzzing in their ear about what the community thinks, they can get detached.

    At the same time, Schema has said that he\'s building this game for himself, so it\'s kinda like we\'re in it for the ride because we enjoy it.

    I know that\'s probably really frustrating, and I know it\'s not the best way to do stuff, but it\'s the way it is right now. If I had some control over things there would be scheduled streams where the devs would do their brainstorming in front of the public, and the public would be able to give feedback right then and there without disrupting the devs.
     
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    At the same time, Schema has said that he\'s building this game for himself, so it\'s kinda like we\'re in it for the ride because we enjoy it.


    Then why haev a suggestion forum at all?
     

    MrFURB

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    I\'m not Schema, but in my mind having an alpha game be open and free is just asking for everyone to put in their ideas for the game. Might as well sort them into a specific place for testers to look through.



    Us testers DO look through the suggestions forums occasionally, especially forum mods. If we find a really good idea it will usually merit some discussion, and if an issue is widespread I\'ll take it up with higher powers, but what they do is completely out of my control.
     
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    If that\'s the case, could you please change the title of this forum section to \"Arbitrary Suggestions\"? Thanks.

    Ideas with merit. Ok. So how about the idea of adding those things that all leave a little \"coming soon\" message next? And then how about fixing the pricing and the economy system that just prints money? Or the salvaging system that makes you a millionaire in a matter of hours? Or how about the idea of WTF is good about that ridiculous grid based crafting system? Or even better than all of that, how about at least a tiny bit of a hint of an explanation as to what these odd systems are for? If he\'s making this game for himself, does he WANT a useless, just-for-looks economy? Does he want redundant crafting systems?

    I\'m just saying, even if I was just making a game for myself, I\'d want to see every feature I implement at least somewhat refined and fit into place before I threw more (Seemingly redundant or unrelated) stuff into the mix.

    This whole discussion is just starting to make me sick honestly. Because the truth is that Starmade has gotten a lot of attention, become relatively popular on a blocky cult level, and has probably sold a nice pocketfull of sales. So who cares about this big, devoted, excited community of players and admins, when you can just make your money and get some LOLz at the buzz it creates. Hell, it\'ll be even more LOLz if you just troll the community with crazy stupid new stuff instead of actually refining what\'s there and making it more stable. This is all just a big joke on us. On me. That\'s how your replies to this thread sir, have made me feel. And my server costs $250 a month. I guess I\'ll take my arbitrary suggestions and see if I can use them to pay for it. smh
     
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    Us testers DO look through the suggestions forums occasionally, especially forum mods. If we find a really good idea it will usually merit some discussion, and if an issue is widespread I\'ll take it up with higher powers, but what they do is completely out of my control.


    So, as \"us testers\", when you noticed the memory leak and the auto-save error, or all of the unfinished or buggy features like chain docking and this travesty of an economy, did you then glance over our beloved suggestions then go up to Schema and say \"hey, add guns, a silly crafting grid, and some pretty bubbles at the end of the rocket blockies.\"? What are the fruits of your input, oh suggester of suggestions based on our suggestions?