StarMade v0.19519 Cargo & more

[Zekester81]

Wow. I don't check up for a couple days and come back to getting my mind blown. Very nice Schema.

Btw, kiraen, love your sig.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

Great... so now that any faction member can walk onto a station or ship and access any cargo, it makes it even harder to protect against faction members from stealing items.

My original method for preventing theft was to set a station's edit permission to founder, and have hidden unnamed storage where materials would be stashed. Those who could not use a build block on a station would be unable to access those storage areas.... Now? That's totally broken.

Thanks guys. Please make your next update be strictly about better access level controls for factions, stations, and ships.

Still it's a fun game, but I'm pretty much done with multilayer except as a solo-faction until the faction permission issues get resolved.

How is that totally broken? The chest will still be a single access point that you can hide in a room somewhere, you'll just have to have the main storage capacity elsewhere and you cannot access the inventory through that.

 

[RabidBat]

I like to think that giving purpose to your ship and depth is more legitimate gameplay than letting one store massive quantities of material in a small area with little effort.

Sorry but I disagree, okay I can handle having cargo space, you'll have to forgive me if I am not the most eloquent person when it comes to getting my views across and miss some things out, also this is why I asked not to be quoted or replied to as people always tend to cherry pick what they reply to as you have done so here and as I am now doing as I can admit as I do not wish to address your other points, but right now my primary concern with this game is game play or the lack of it and things like cargo which affect the games balance and seem to add even more performance issues to an already badly performing game.

But yeah onto cargo, For me the real problem aside from having to devote massive amounts of space to the massive amounts of resources we've collected over a long period of time but is something I could deal with and accept if it were done right, is that I think it is poorly implemented as are many new additions when they are implemented.
I will admit I have not yet had the chance to test this myself as I logged out once I saw all of my storages were showing as being thousands of % over limit and could not be fucked dealing with it at the time. (and I know my factions members are facing the same thing and going to feel the same way) It's more so the mass addition, especially for ships, and people saying they not only move slower, but they also have a power drain on top. Happy to be corrected if I am wrong, but it at least explains the power cap increase if so.
Why would more cargo drain power? I could understand the extra mass slowing a ships acceleration. But not it draining power,and heaven forbid lowering it's top speed as normal mass seems to do. Again let us remember this is a game set in space.


As for game play we have to disagree there also. While yes to some degree changing mechanics is adding or removing from game play, but it is not really game play it is a mechanic. Game play for me is fun, activities, activities outside fricking mining and building and managing cargo. I mean missions, fighting decent freaking AI. I mean one of the points I made is many Early Access games add these kinds of things along side development of systems and rebalancing of mechanics.
It makes sense doing this otherwise what happens when game play elements like mission are possibly affected negatively at a later date when and if they ever get added? Why they'll need to be rebalanced once afreakinggain.......

I get annoyed because for as long as AI has been in the game and as broken as it is, it seemingly gets ignored in favour of adding new systems and rebalancing things like power and shields and weapon DPS. I mean how many times are these things going to be rebalanced while actual gameplay elements are seemingly ignored or often end up even more broken than before?

How long have faction points been in the game? How long have people,a great many aired concerns over them not working or doing anything of value and that they want better faction permissions? Another element of gameplay overlooked and prone to exploiting.
as nightwalker_007 pointed out, what was implemented with cargo to prevent griefing and theft by faction members?
I too am another who has to use build mode to lock away my stuff. I feel being able to lock doors,stprage etc and give them permission levels would of made more sense as an addition than adding cargo that looks like it might be even more exploitable in its current state.

I'd think gamers would get why people would want some game play instead of the same tired lego in space we've had forever along with developers, developers who I would think would understand why game play, REAL GAME PLAY, is just as important to have added along tweaks and new systems. If Schine cannot see how there being nothing to do in the game after x amount of years is a turn off to many then I really am concerned.

I mean many would be happy just to have pirates worth fighting. AI waves that actually work and shit to do with these great ships we build.
Build a ship, then what? Just build it and rebuild it over and over?
I know how about PvP? Oh wait nobody undocks their creations for fear of losing them, and if they do the majority cry big time and try and get you banned when they get beaten from personal experience.

So yes, what should I do with my newly built 700m UNSC ship armed to the teeth Criss ? Keep it docked and rebalance it for the hundreth time? Put some weeds into its cargo hold and transport them to a shop and play make believe? Fight the same wave of boring ass pirate ships I can one shot over and over because they're stupid and waves are broken?
Maybe mine some planets in a different ship even though I have enough resources?
I know maybe I can go explore some systems and make new discoveries......oh wait, same planets, same suns, same stations with same accompanying bad AI, same nothing worth exploring for.

Oh well I can always go play with others I guess and make our own fun? oh wait, every ones left the local servers from being bored from no updates to REAL game play in god knows how long.

Seriously can you not see my problem here Criss , not just mine but many other players I have spoken too when I ask them why longer play?

Can you not see what I mean by game play. REAL game play, not some oh we changed a mechanic that's game play response we keep getting?

Can you not see my concerns at already existing systems like faction management and points seemingly not being progressed any since being introduced?

Hey if you have any suggestions of what I can do with my one of the many ships I have built in terms of actual game play I am all ears.
(And no, playing make believe and pretending I am having adventures does not count, if it did I would be rolling around on the floor with toy space ships not playing a video game.)
So please tell me what I can do with my ship that I have not already listed, please tell me how adding Cargo has given me new avenues for gaming outside of having to spend hours moving items and rebuilding. I am keen to know.

I see StarMade has some huge potential, but it needs to keep players interested. It needs to have gameplay added along with system and balance updates. Things like new textures and ore names could surely wait until later in the process for example.
Hell race gates, has anyone actually used them?

And I am not just pulling this all out of my arse for the sake of it. I am having more and more friends and even strangers I play with regularly giving up for pretty much the reasons I have stated.
Many going over to other similar games because you know, they're actually fun to play and they make sure adding game play is just as important as bug fixes and tweaking.
I mean why can a game play element not be added along with tweaking power? Other games do it all the time.
If we already own Space Engineers for example do you think we want a Space Engineers clone? And honestly it seems to be where many suggestions and new features are being ripped from.

It is honestly how it is beginning to feel with this game.
It's the differences between this and a game like Space Engineers that make me play it, not the similarities.

I'd honestly love to take a look at how many of the fanboys blindly making suggestions and agreeing with everything without any critical thinking would vanish if the game removed it's ability to play for free.
I also wonder how many are playing StarMade simply because they don't have the, or want to pay, $25USD for Space Engineers.
StarMade recently went up to $15USD and I've really seen nothing to warrant the increase being so alpha and nothing more than a pretty looking tech demo and without any real gameplay a tech demo is all SM really is right now.

Also fanboys this is for you.
Just because someone has a different opinion to yours or does not agree with every update and development it does not mean they are butthurt, no more butthurt than you are for someone having a different point of view.
Being derogatory to others helps no one.
Some times being critical of things is a good thing. Blowing smoke up peoples asses constantly for the sake of them feels and brownie points helps no one.

Calling people butthurt is just as pissweak a response as calling people a troll because they think differently. :p

Oh and if anything I am frustrated I can admit.

Again /rant

 

[Jay_do]

You know what I think we need? Security blocks. Theyd be like inverse faction permission blocks. They would make blocks adjacent to them require permissions. It'd fix his insecure cargo issue.

 

[Bench]

RabidBat decent rant there. I didn't particularly want to read through it because I could pretty much guess what it all boiled down to, but I read it anyway because you took the time to write it and if the shoe was on the other foot I'd hope you would do the same.

Gameplay, gameplay, gameplay. Every new release people talk about gameplay. They throw in a word like missions etc and argue that for other games it's easy.

SO; let's talk about gameplay...

The big thing is people want something to do! Awesome, I'd love for that too. But while some people would just say just throw whatever in, we're taking it nice and steady because there's a few key things we want to ensure as we work to that end.
• Scalability - The universe is huge. Because of that the systems we put in place need to be able to work on that scale, both through mechanics, performance, etc. This means that while we'll dictate a lot of stuff, some of it has to be procedural so that you can always encounter something new.
• Customization - We recognize that our community is passionate about making their own experiences. Whether by modifying configs or with new pirate ships or factions, etc etc. We want the same level of customization in the rest of our gameplay as well. We don't want players to feel locked into the experiences we set forth. Where I'd love to see it is that through just downloading some files etc for your server or single player game, you could open up an entire sci fi universe based off your favorite series. Star Wars, Firefly, whatever style it might be, we want the whole thing to be feasible for you to get in one go without the need for downloading countless packs just to make it work. Within it factions, ships, stations, missions and server events, contextual NPCs with appropriate skins. We're not content with just providing these elements made by ourselves, we want you to have the same freedom that you get in every other part of the game.
• Integration - Ensuring that every new gameplay element fits in with every other gameplay mechanic. It's sounds simple but it takes time and it takes having it in-game to see it first before it can be finalised.

I don't mean to sound patronizing, I merely want to point out that we're not going to slap random stuff together and drop it in for the sake of just having it. That may sound like an oxymoron given some opinions over some of the recent features that have made it into the game, but let me point out.

Since mid-October we've been working on adding actually gameplay in, giving players actually something to do. Each release includes features that's part of that plan.

For us to add missions and events in we need NPCs and factions all set up to support it. We also need new ships and stations to support that end as well. For how we want those elements to work, we need the ability to board those ships and stations, whether through transporters or other means. We also then need interiors on those ships and stations to make doing those missions and events engaging. For us to do full fledged interiors we need to put in all the crew management systems. As NPC overhauls are also part of it, so to will it include the mechanics to enable those NPCs to issue missions etc. For the events we have planned to be available in the game we need to have military and civilian ships, those civ ships also need a reason to be valuable. Hence the cargo update.

So thanks for being passionate and wanting something to do in the game. We want that too, hence why we're actually working on it and each new release gets us a step closer to that end. It's a shame players jump on their soapbox after each release and try to berate the developers saying we're not adding in the biggest thing they want, something to actually do in the game, without realising that's exactly what we're actively working towards right at the moment. The team is small, the elephant is large, we're doing it bite by bite, we can't go any faster because most of us still have full-time jobs outside of Schine.

RabidBat you do highlight a good point about the faction permissions though. Let me talk with the team, look at our schedule, and see if we can expedite its revision.

Also the comparison to Space Engineers; I'm responsible for the schedule of what goes in when with StarMade and I've never played Space Engineers, don't even own it; so if you think a lot of the recent mechanics or gameplay features going in are based off it, it's purely coincidental.

 

[therimmer96]

RabidBat decent rant there. I didn't particularly want to read through it because I could pretty much guess what it all boiled down to, but I read it anyway because you took the time to write it and if the shoe was on the other foot I'd hope you would do the same.

Gameplay, gameplay, gameplay. Every new release people talk about gameplay. They throw in a word like missions etc and argue that for other games it's easy.

SO; let's talk about gameplay...

The big thing is people want something to do! Awesome, I'd love for that too. But while some people would just say just throw whatever in, we're taking it nice and steady because there's a few key things we want to ensure as we work to that end.
• Scalability - The universe is huge. Because of that the systems we put in place need to be able to work on that scale, both through mechanics, performance, etc. This means that while we'll dictate a lot of stuff, some of it has to be procedural so that you can always encounter something new.
• Customization - We recognize that our community is passionate about making their own experiences. Whether by modifying configs or with new pirate ships or factions, etc etc. We want the same level of customization in the rest of our gameplay as well. We don't want players to feel locked into the experiences we set forth. Where I'd love to see it is that through just downloading some files etc for your server or single player game, you could open up an entire sci fi universe based off your favorite series. Star Wars, Firefly, whatever style it might be, we want the whole thing to be feasible for you to get in one go without the need for downloading countless packs just to make it work. Within it factions, ships, stations, missions and server events, contextual NPCs with appropriate skins. We're not content with just providing these elements made by ourselves, we want you to have the same freedom that you get in every other part of the game.
• Integration - Ensuring that every new gameplay element fits in with every other gameplay mechanic. It's sounds simple but it takes time and it takes having it in-game to see it first before it can be finalised.

I don't mean to sound patronizing, I merely want to point out that we're not going to slap random stuff together and drop it in for the sake of just having it. That may sound like an oxymoron given some opinions over some of the recent features that have made it into the game, but let me point out.

Since mid-October we've been working on adding actually gameplay in, giving players actually something to do. Each release includes features that's part of that plan.

For us to add missions and events in we need NPCs and factions all set up to support it. We also need new ships and stations to support that end as well. For how we want those elements to work, we need the ability to board those ships and stations, whether through transporters or other means. We also then need interiors on those ships and stations to make doing those missions and events engaging. For us to do full fledged interiors we need to put in all the crew management systems. As NPC overhauls are also part of it, so to will it include the mechanics to enable those NPCs to issue missions etc. For the events we have planned to be available in the game we need to have military and civilian ships, those civ ships also need a reason to be valuable. Hence the cargo update.

So thanks for being passionate and wanting something to do in the game. We want that too, hence why we're actually working on it and each new release gets us a step closer to that end. It's a shame players jump on their soapbox after each release and try to berate the developers saying we're not adding in the biggest thing they want, something to actually do in the game, without realising that's exactly what we're actively working towards right at the moment. The team is small, the elephant is large, we're doing it bite by bite, we can't go any faster because most of us still have full-time jobs outside of Schine.

RabidBat you do highlight a good point about the faction permissions though. Let me talk with the team, look at our schedule, and see if we can expedite its revision.

Also the comparison to Space Engineers; I'm responsible for the schedule of what goes in when with StarMade and I've never played Space Engineers, don't even own it; so if you think a lot of the recent mechanics or gameplay features going in are based off it, it's purely coincidental.

Since calbiri left and you've taken the helm for game design, I have more faith in this game than I have had in a very long time. Actual game design and planning is happening, rather than someone just deciding "hur dur, this is best" without actually playing or acknowledging feedback

Now we just need to work on Schine being so secretive, look at starcitizen, almost complete transparency for whats coming, even if it changes and can work feedback into it, where as over here we have no idea what you'll be working on next :P
[DOUBLEPOST=1449481393,1449481299][/DOUBLEPOST]

Also the comparison to Space Engineers; I'm responsible for the schedule of what goes in when with StarMade and I've never played Space Engineers, don't even own it; so if you think a lot of the recent mechanics or gameplay features going in are based off it, it's purely coincidental.

Oh, and buy some games. SE and Pulsar Lost Colonies are good examples of where many of us wish some parts of this game would go.

 

[Bench]

Now we just need to work on Schine being so secretive, look at starcitizen, almost complete transparency for whats coming, even if it changes and can work feedback into it, where as over here we have no idea what you'll be working on next :p

I know right, I mean if only we would make a post where we talked about our plans for the next few months, or at least gave you a heads up on features you might need to prepare for, or even just have an open forum where players could actually ask what our plans were.

Oh well

 

[therimmer96]

I know right, I mean if only we would make a post where we talked about our plans for the next few months, or at least gave you a heads up on features you might need to prepare for, or even just have an open forum where players could actually ask what our plans were.

Oh well

If only you had actually gone into more detail beyond the typical "Yep, this is a thing we're doing" and instead actually explained the details you had planned :P

 

[Bench]

If only you had actually gone into more detail beyond the typical "Yep, this is a thing we're doing" and instead actually explained the details you had planned :p

Yeah nah, don't need every single player combing through every piece of documentation we write.

 

[therimmer96]

Yeah nah, don't need every single player combing through every piece of documentation we write.

Or even the shorter documents

I lurk everything.

 

[Bench]

Or even the shorter documents

I lurk everything.

A fair chunk of that planning doc is actually what made up this post. About half is straight copy+paste the other half I shortened because it wasn't needed for the purpose of the post.

 

[Nauvran]

A fair chunk of that planning doc is actually what made up this post. About half is straight copy+paste the other half I shortened because it wasn't needed for the purpose of the post.

Seems like someone got a "sweet" stalker :p

 

[Bench]

Seems like someone got a "sweet" stalker :p

It's okay, I have them all on a list....

 

[therimmer96]

It's okay, I have them all on a list....

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[Enepttastic]

At this point I will gladly respond to your concerns via PM or in it's own suggestion thread. A bit of your information concerns changes that we already have planned or maybe I can better explain some things. Apparently this post wrecked me pretty hard so I think it'd be best to continue the discussion elsewhere.

Meant to respond to this to say that I am currently drafting up a lengthy post(s) to throw into the suggestions board. Given the time, I'm probably going to have it up in around 10-16 hours(Gonna be going to sleep soon and then need to finish writing it up). Granted, would have probably had it done by now but I feel it may be prudent to write a bit about inventory abstraction since I'll be utilizing those concepts in describing my reasoning as to why I have concerns about the current system and why something akin to the system I'm fleshing out would be more beneficial. I'll shoot ya a PM when I get it posted.

Edit: Posted my belated reply to Chriss and then actually read through the newer posts. That said, wanted to point one thing out:

I know right, I mean if only we would make a post where we talked about our plans for the next few months, or at least gave you a heads up on features you might need to prepare for, or even just have an open forum where players could actually ask what our plans were.

Oh well

Since I wasn't around when those were posted, I didn't read them till now. That aside, what was said in what's coming for did not once give me an impression that you guys would radically switch the inventory system in the way you did. Despite using "Volume" as the capacity unit, you guys actually went from a Volume-based inventory to a Mass-based inventory with a Volume-based GUI and that's jarring to say the least. Combining that with the initial settings for cargo space didn't help in the slightest.

Now, back to working on my inventory system suggestion. Although I will say that if there's any current design decisions about how you guys are wanting do handle inventory that you can share(not implementation specifically but concepts), I can see about taking those into account as well, or explaining why I wouldn't consider them to be a worthwhile addition as I write up the suggestion. At the moment I am currently accounting for cargo spaces existing(as to not invalidate the time spent on them) as well as storage/cargo adding inventory mass to ships.

 

[Ithirahad]

Yeah, we had something of a faction permissions-related incident as well yesterday. I'd really appreciate an expanded rank system and better permission control right about now.

That aside, I'm really liking this update. The only question is, what's next? Going strictly by the development roadmap, the next thing to work on will be... NPC mechanics, and implementing the Quarters system. But I'd not be surprised if we had something coming before that.

 

[Criss]

Yeah, we had something of a faction permissions-related incident as well yesterday. I'd really appreciate an expanded rank system and better permission control right about now.

That aside, I'm really liking this update. The only question is, what's next?

Changing thrust mechanics I believe. Not sure on specifics since that's all math sorta but I hear we will be getting more control over how our ships move. Also turn rates that make more sense. We don't want to keep everyone waiting for these changes since cargo came out and that can affect movement quite a bit.

 

[Ithirahad]

Ah, yay! I was just wondering about that.

 

[GRHayes]

Nice to see the changes made and coming. Stopped in to see what changes where going on and if they figured out what I was talking about.
I seen the list.
Power soft cap has been increased from 1 000 000 to 2 000 000
Max shield regen under fire has been increased from 10% to 25%

Shields sharing is disabled when you go under 25% shield capacity instead of 50%

The system penalties you receive when you suffer damage are now less harsh.

Starting cash is now 50 000 credits instead of 20 000 credits for new clients and station cost price has been decreased from 1 000 000 credits to 50 000 credits

We’ve introduced multi-slots for lights and their respective light rods, the delay-signal is now also sitting in a logic multi-slot. We’re planning to add controllers + modules next release.

Missile + cannon its missile speed has been buffed from 0.5 to 2.0, now it can go 6 times the max server speed.

Nice to see that we really were listened to and not blown off as much as the replies indicated.
I might actually have to come back if this keeps up.
I'll have to at least reinstall and see how you handled the power issue wondering if you just change the 1 million to 2 million or did you tweek the formula so rough the same number of blocks produces more power.

The part I am really interested in is the Controller and modules. Is this based on what I was talking about with PLC style controllers?
If so awesome as heck.

 

[Aynslei]

1.
But yeah onto cargo, For me the real problem aside from having to devote massive amounts of space to the massive amounts of resources we've collected over a long period of time but is something I could deal with and accept if it were done right, is that I think it is poorly implemented as are many new additions when they are implemented.

I will admit I have not yet had the chance to test this myself as I logged out once I saw all of my storages were showing as being thousands of % over limit and could not be fucked dealing with it at the time.
2.
As for game play we have to disagree there also. While yes to some degree changing mechanics is adding or removing from game play, but it is not really game play it is a mechanic.
3.
So please tell me what I can do with my ship that I have not already listed, please tell me how adding Cargo has given me new avenues for gaming outside of having to spend hours moving items and rebuilding. I am keen to know.

1.

It really feels like most of the people complaining just skimmed the patch notes, went in-game and got confused then came here crying.

I will freely admit that some issues popped up immediately after the patch (as would be expected) however I don't think any of those issues survived the rather speedy hot fix. If you spent half the time writing rants on actually looking at the cargo system I am sure you would think its implementation is better than having 17 blocks hold EVERYTHING.

2.
I have to say I majorly disagree with you here, to me Cargo (and the other changes that came alongside) is a massive boost to gameplay.
Cargo crates that I can fill with my now not useless logic circuits, Cranes that can actually load and unload ships without me hopping in and out of cores, Docking my mining ship and not having to lift a single finger unloading my haul, and many more.
I accept that this is not your idea of gameplay, but dont rush to say its not gameplay when it is for others in this already dominated by building game.

3.
This game is 70% building, 20% exploring and mining, and 10% fighting.
Before this patch a 300 block ship and a 800k mass combat ship had the same ability to move cargo.
Ships filling specifics rolls is becoming more common and jack-of-all trades ships alongside gigantism will hopefully fall out of favor.
Once everyone and their mother is no longer flying titans I bet you will have lots to do.

The past few patches have been BIG in giving ships a "direction" all I can ask is that you trust what Bench has already said, the strong foundation is now, the things you seek are planned.