Starmade memes

[YamiHikari]

proof is not necessary for something to be true. he may or may not be "pushing a fallacy."

personally im inclined to believe him, but i imagine you can do a little googling and verify his claim if youd like.

I agree that you don't need to prove something for it to be true, and also believe that there is no guarantee that what CyberTao is saying is or isn't true, but the fact that they are simply saying that this is what an unidentified other is doing, it becomes much more plausible to suspect that the claim is likely not true. It is personally hard for me to believe a claim that is made when said claim is not backed by any evidence whatsoever, much like how you question Schine's ability to expand their player base when they have yet to make any attempt to do so.
[doublepost=1519519121,1519519018][/doublepost]

Well this is ironic

How is it ironic? I'm asking a question about an unexplained claim. I'm trying to get clarification of something I thought was too vague or ambiguous.

 

[kulbolen]

I agree that you don't need to prove something for it to be true, and also believe that there is no guarantee that what CyberTao is saying is or isn't true, but the fact that they are simply saying that this is what an unidentified other is doing, it becomes much more plausible to suspect that the claim is likely not true. It is personally hard for me to believe a claim that is made when said claim is not backed by any evidence whatsoever, much like how you question Schine's ability to expand their player base when they have yet to make any attempt to do so.
[doublepost=1519519121,1519519018][/doublepost]
How is it ironic? I'm asking a question about an unexplained claim. I'm trying to get clarification of something I thought was too vague or ambiguous.

that is your personal skepticism, and has nothing to do with his claim and how likely it is to be true.

his comment contained all the context you asked about though... he was clearly talking about game developers in general, (not sm devs) who might potentially advertise through steam vs console publishing. hes not likely to publish charts and graphs and lengthy examples to satisfy you. its up to you to decide for yourself if hes right or wrong. either way, it doesnt automatically mean his comment is fallacious.

 

[YamiHikari]

that is your personal skepticism, and has nothing to do with his claim and how likely it is to be true.

his comment contained all the context you asked about though... he was clearly talking about game developers in general, (not sm devs) who might potentially advertise through steam vs console publishing. hes not likely to publish charts and graphs and lengthy examples to satisfy you. its up to you to decide for yourself if hes right or wrong. either way, it doesnt automatically mean his comment is fallacious.

I'm not necessarily asking for lengthy explanations. All he really needed to say was something along the lines of "some games, like X, did Y." My skepticism is different from a lack of concrete support. If I were to tell you that a lot of people think jumping off of bridges is fun, would you immediately believe that it's fun to jump off a bridge? His comment is fallacious because he was incredibly general in his argument. I personally don't see any issues in me asking him for an example. If you are suggesting that I do a simple google search to determine how truthful he is, why didn't he include such an example initially when he already knew of examples? And if he is very clearly talking about game developers in general, what does that constitute? Are you just talking about indie developers? Or do you mean all developers? What if only big name developers are skipping steam and going straight to console? That actually sounds more accurate to me, because console games are much harder to sell than steam games, to my knowledge. And that also raises the question of success. These "other developers" are releasing these games in a different manner, but how much of a difference is that making? You don't really have much of an argument if developers are releasing to console and then flopping faster than their steam counterparts. There are a lot of questions that need to be asked if you're going to make such an argument without supporting it.

 

[kulbolen]

His comment is fallacious because he was incredibly general in his argument.

making a general claim isnt a fallacy that i know of (if its not overgeneralized to the point it doesnt support itself, and if its ACTUALLY an argument.)

he is not under obligation to prove anything to you before you even inquire about it. as i said, youre free to verify his claim or refute it.

 

[YamiHikari]

making a general claim isnt a fallacy that i know of. he is not under obligation to prove anything to you. as i said, youre free to verify his claim or refute it. will you?

Actually, there is an entirely separate fallacy type involving over-generalization, but this isn't that kind of fallacy. In fact, I'd actually like to point out that I misstated the kind of fallacy that was used. As it turns out, it was not a straw man, but an anonymous authority fallacy:

When an unspecified source is used as evidence for the claim. This is commonly indicated by phrases such as “They say that...”, “It has been said...”, “I heard that...”, “Studies show...”, or generalized groups such as, “scientists say...” When we fail to specify a source of the authority, we can’t verify the source, thus the credibility of the argument. Appeals to anonymous sources are more often than not, either a way to fabricate, exaggerate, or misrepresent facts in order to deceive others into accepting your claim. At times, this deception is done subconsciously -- it might not always be deliberate. --logicallyfallacious.com

 

[kulbolen]

Actually, there is an entirely separate fallacy type involving over-generalization, but this isn't that kind of fallacy. In fact, I'd actually like to point out that I misstated the kind of fallacy that was used. As it turns out, it was not a straw man, but an anonymous authority fallacy:

When an unspecified source is used as evidence for the claim. This is commonly indicated by phrases such as “They say that...”, “It has been said...”, “I heard that...”, “Studies show...”, or generalized groups such as, “scientists say...” When we fail to specify a source of the authority, we can’t verify the source, thus the credibility of the argument. Appeals to anonymous sources are more often than not, either a way to fabricate, exaggerate, or misrepresent facts in order to deceive others into accepting your claim. At times, this deception is done subconsciously -- it might not always be deliberate. --logicallyfallacious.com

i think youre referring to informal fallacy. youd need to be arguing with him first and hed need to be a little more convoluted than his common sense statement was.

as far as anonymous authority goes, he needs to introduce an authority before its anonymity can be attacked. unless i read something wrong, he didnt claim a source.

 

[YamiHikari]

i think youre referring to informal fallacy. youd need to be arguing with him first and hed need to be a little more convoluted than his common sense statement was.

as far as anonymous authority goes, he needs to introduce an authority before its anonymity can be attacked. unless i read something wrong, he didnt claim a source.

The fact that he didn't claim a source is exactly what makes it an anonymous authority fallacy. Given examples include things such as "they say that..." and "Scientists say..." Saying "There are devs who..." without defining who he's talking about is no different. And how is his statement common sense? Does everybody know that other devs are going straight to console? CyberTao was the first person I've heard it from so far. Saying that something is common sense doesn't exactly make its factuality guaranteed.

 

[kulbolen]

The fact that he didn't claim a source is exactly what makes it an anonymous authority fallacy. Given examples include things such as "they say that..." and "Scientists say..." Saying "There are devs who..." without defining who he's talking about is no different. And how is his statement common sense? Does everybody know that other devs are going straight to console? CyberTao was the first person I've heard it from so far. Saying that something is common sense doesn't exactly make its factuality guaranteed.

no, he didnt put ANY authority behind his words. you are assigning an anonymous authority so you can attack it. re-visit your fallacy page and check up on what youre saying.

 

[CyberTao]

I hope you don't mind me asking, but what devs are you talking about? If you mean Starmade's devs, which ones? If you're talking about other games' devs, which games? How many games are doing this? You're saying "some are doing X" but not saying who. If you're going to state these kinds of things, give examples. Otherwise you're just pushing a straw man fallacy.

You see, I am lazy, nor do I feel the need to research for you. But have something if you're so desperate

 

[kulbolen]

You see, I am lazy, nor do I feel the need to research for you. But have something if you're so desperate

see now this philipp guy, he makes lots of anonymous authority fallacies... except for the one small detail that hes probably perceived as a subject matter expert, and im inclined to believe him on faith. =D

 

[YamiHikari]

You see, I am lazy, nor do I feel the need to research for you. But have something if you're so desperate

This doesn't quite tell me who is actually going to console instead of steam, but I do see your point here. What I can't exactly say is whether we can be sure that Schine won't be able to generate a decent player base on steam (although I can see the obstacles in doing so). I'd also like to mention that I didn't really mean to escalate my response to that one statement so much. I just wanted a bit of elaboration on the subject.

 

[Matt_Bradock]

Waiter, I want my memes back or I'll report y'all for offtopic!

(For all intents or purposes, please consider this post a joke, moderators. It was intended as one, even though admittedly and intentionally sarcastic and cynical)

 

[Calhoun]

Waiter, I want my memes back or I'll report y'all for offtopic!

(For all intents or purposes, please consider this post a joke, moderators. It was intended as one, even though admittedly and intentionally sarcastic and cynical)

Reported, offtopic, hostile, threatening

 

[CyberTao]

SMD​

 

[Nosajimiki]

*repeatedly and frustratedly presses the place where the funny button used to be*

*Presses the Phantom report button for hostile use of the phantom funny button*

Oh, wait, there IS still a report button... but I take no offense, so I guess the phantom report button is fine.

Now since you don't believe me, this ship dominated a the competition on LvD, and it was very well optimised. Now, you may not agree with the aesthetic of island ships, it was definitely built with style in mind and was far more deadly than the other ships in the competition that most people would consider very well optimised. (with the exception of Other Starmadian who missed the no spaghetti memo, lol)

 

[Blakpik]

Wow, all those memes really sucked. It just sounded like people bitching at each other.

 

[Nosajimiki]

 

[Nauvran]

You could just take your shitty discussion elsewhere instead of filling our fun meme thread with boring shit.

 

[Nosajimiki]

You could just take your shitty discussion elsewhere instead of filling our fun meme thread with boring shit.

You ask for memes, I give you one... I do not see the problem... :P

 

[Nosajimiki]

How's this