Space Duck... err Space Dock

[rece ktore leczo]

Yes, of course players love challenge (maybe besides casual players) and that's why we hate current economy system, as we can just set up basic hard hull factory and achieve credits cap in no time. Not to mention making faction blocks from cubeatoms.
But there will be time for balancing Right now we should focus on catching bugs and suggesting new features.

Back to the topic:

- I didn't catch here the idea of using power by shipyards. I think it's great balancer as shipyards, without any enhancers, would use i.e. 2 or 5 million e/sec. Each enhancer would use the same amount of energy as the basic one. So there wouldn't be a need for forbidding the use of enhancers on the ships, because making ship with 4/10 million e/sec regeneration could be a challenge. And for the stations achieving such reg wouldn't be such a problem, but still could be troublesome (i.e. draining more faction points for the maintenance)

- Only ships should be able to build stations. If somebody wants a station, the cost for building shouldn't be only 1 mil credits, as this is ridiculously low cost, but instead it should require of owning/borrowing building ship. I know that this is pretty limiting, so i would understand voices against it, but c'mon, it'd give such a realistic feel!
Players would design their stations in the shipyard module or wherever that could be possible and the ship would use station blueprints for placing the blocks. And the speed of building would be, of course, determined by abilities of building ship.


BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE


Only building ships being able to build a station would result that there wouldn't be build block abuse anymore (as they couldn't be used for spawning/mining blocks anymore)! Great, huh?

But then what could we do with a build block? Well either there could be a change of the block, so it'd be a shipyard block, or it could be used solely for designing purpose.

So what about building stations on planets? pretty difficult if the building ship would be catched into gravity of planet. Well then, the range of building should be bigger then the range of gravity.

What if somebody want to build a station but don't want to have a building ship? Well then the player could borrow the building ship either form NPCs or other players. The building speeds would vary depending on ship, so the costs of such borrowing also would vary.


Cons?

I can see that this would limit like A LOT the ability of building stations. For me it's a great pro, but it depends on the players personal feel.
The best way would be the ability to choose for each server, would they rather keep present system of building, add shipyards, or add shipyards with the ability of building stations only using building ships.
I'll personally choose to play on server with most limited building ability as i feel it'd be the most enjoyable system for me, but i can understand that some people play Starmade focusing mostly on the creating and sharing rather than competitive and challenging side of the game.


I know i haven't write down all the details and solutions for this kind of system, but it's just a loose suggestion.

 

[ltmauve]

My idea for power consumption was simply that placing a block would require x amount of energy. Depending on how many blocks/sec are being placed determines the energy consumption.

 

[Vyor]

it'd give such a realistic feel

Stop, stop right there! You are making ships bigger than planets, realism does not fit in this at all...


Also, I don't want to build a 1,00,000+ block factory to build a ship... Just no... If I am already spending resources(it will be balanced) to make a large ship, I don't want this... Also, needing to build a 5-10k block ship to build the thing makes it so much worse...

 

[rece ktore leczo]

We are not talking about 1 mil block factory (i think pretty less blocks are required to get few milions of energy reg). We are talking about clearly broken system of immediately spawning ships.

I may have gone a little too far with building stations only by using ships (i still think that'd be nice and would make a need for new type of ships) but shipyards are needed. And many people before have seen the need for such system.
If You don't want to build Your shipyard then You could either pay for renting NPCs one or play on server with so much enjoyable system of spawning in 500k mass ships.

Anyway games should be realistic as then they feel right. Building block abuse, broken economy, one-sided planets, green docking boxes or spawning ships aren't realistic at all, so the Community strive to give better ideas to Devs and give solution for some problems.
The art in all of this is to find right balance between game being realistic and enjoyable, as too much realistic would lead to micromanagement, etc., killing the joy of playing and the game being too basic would lead to the feeling of game being shallow and unrewarding.

 

[Vyor]

Anyway games should be realistic as then they feel right. Building block abuse, broken economy, one-sided planets, green docking boxes or spawning ships aren't realistic at all, so the Community strive to give better ideas to Devs and give solution for some problems.
The art in all of this is to find right balance between game being realistic and enjoyable, as too much realistic would lead to micromanagement, etc., killing the joy of playing and the game being too basic would lead to the feeling of game being shallow and unrewarding.

Stop bringing up realism.
The broken economy will be fixed, stop bringing that up, wrong thread for that.
There is a config option to make it so you use blocks, not credits to spawn ships.
The largest ships can't be spawned with creds already(credit cap is too low for them).
One sided planets are being fixed.
Building block abuse?
How are the docking boxes bad?

 

[rece ktore leczo]

I don't think You understand my post. I wasn't listing broken things in game (btw they are broken) but i was giving an example of things which are broken because they aren't realistic.
One-sided planets were ok, but we wanted them to be similiar to the ones which exist, thus we wanted them to be realistic. But we know that it is very hard/impossible to make planets round in Starmade so there is a balance between realism and code abilities resulting in the planets with this funny geometrical name dedo-, deco-, dedeco-(?)-something.

Anyway, hope i proved my point and we can stop this offtopic.

 

[Vyor]

I don't think You understand my post. I wasn't listing broken things in game (btw they are broken) but i was giving an example of things which are broken because they aren't realistic.
One-sided planets were ok, but we wanted them to be similiar to the ones which exist, thus we wanted them to be realistic. But we know that it is very hard/impossible to make planets round in Starmade so there is a balance between realism and code abilities resulting in the planets with this funny geometrical name dedo-, deco-, dedeco-(?)-something.

Anyway, hope i proved my point and we can stop this offtopic.

Again I must ask, building block abuse? But that is besides the point. They are broken because they aren't fun, minecraft(one of the least realistic games ever) works because it's mechanics aren't realistic, STOP BRINGING IT UP!

 

[rece ktore leczo]

Ohhhh god... So tell me how in minecraft, not based on real world, are: water/lava flows, mining and crafting system, day and night cycles, breeding animals, planting trees, hunger indicator, armors and weapons (better material = better equipment), etc., etc.

Ehh, nevermind, i'm done here. If You want to talk more about it then pm me, so we won't spam here anymore. If You don't want, then i'll be perfectly fine with it.


Last comment to the original topic - shipyards are must; building-ships would be lovely for more "hardcore" players, but if not implemented in the basic version of the game, i'd love to see them as a part of some mod.

 

[NeonSturm]

Personally, I would like that the game supports RP-rules.


I mean that server owners can choose to make a game with their own set of ship restrictions, weapon vs shield balance because they can choose their own size-classes.

StarMade does not limit creativity, but if players want to make another game based on StarMade as an engine for it, why limit them by not providing features they need to do this?

 

[Ithirahad]

Stop, stop right there! You are making ships bigger than planets, realism does not fit in this at all...

ships bigger than planets

...Which shouldn't happen in the first place. Good.

 

[Vyor]

...Which shouldn't happen in the first place. Good.

Say that to star ruler...

Also, no matter how big those planets are, people will build things bigger than them... You are so focused on realism you are missing the point of a game... to have fun.

 

[NeonSturm]

Also, no matter how big those planets are, people will build things bigger than them... You are so focused on realism you are missing the point of a game... to have fun.

+1 for interplanetary bridges

If it happens, the ships should at least be detailed enough to not see the blocks any-more.

 

[Claru]

Ahhh the majestic space duck. Such a noble creature...

(Yay dbz abridged)

 

[testkil]

My idea for power consumption was simply that placing a block would require x amount of energy. Depending on how many blocks/sec are being placed determines the energy consumption.

you should make a topic for it ^^ its a nice idea

 

[Vyor]

+1 for interplanetary bridges

If it happens, the ships should at least be detailed enough to not see the blocks any-more.

They already are...

 

[Ithirahad]

Say that to star ruler...

Also, no matter how big those planets are, people will build things bigger than them... You are so focused on realism you are missing the point of a game... to have fun.

I build huge biological-looking ships that have lots of glowing ice crystal as part of their hull... I'm hardly "so focused on realism"... I merely would rather have things remain within reason and practicality most of the time.

 

[Vyor]

I build huge biological-looking ships that have lots of glowing ice crystal as part of their hull... I'm hardly "so focused on realism"... I merely would rather have things remain within reason and practicality most of the time.

That has nothing to do with realism...

 

[Ithirahad]

That has nothing to do with realism...

Realistically, it would be impossible, or at least stupidly impractical, to build a spacecraft using biological components and magically glowing ice crystals, and it certainly isn't realistic for a spacecraft to have big, expansive rooms and decorative bits taking up mass, let alone borrowed naval ship concepts such as a bridge at the top part of a ship. All of these things I build into my ships, and enjoy building into my ships.

I would HATE if this game was truly realistic. However, it's ridiculous for both gameplay and realism reasons to, as a normal, single player, build a starship that's literally larger than a planet that actually works (and be able to replicate it instantly at what becomes almost no tangible cost), or to be able to instantly transmute massive pieces of meter-thick starship hull into advanced biometric security hubs using an apparently pocket-sized device that doesn't require an external source of energy, or to get "sucked into" a computer to use it despite it having a touch-screen interface, etc, etc... You get my point, I hope.

If you're going to build three copies of a moon-sized ship, you should need moon-sized equipment (and power generation equipment) to assemble it. If you can and are willing to buy the materials and build that... I'm not stopping you.

 

[Vyor]

If you're going to build three copies of a moon-sized ship, you should need moon-sized equipment (and power generation equipment) to assemble it. If you can and are willing to buy the materials and build that... I'm not stopping you.

Problems with economy really shouldn't be in this suggestion thread... this idea of yours wouldn't fix it...

 

[rece ktore leczo]

It's more of gameplay than economy.