Space Duck... err Space Dock

[andbruu]

Its cool and all to build huge ships, and with the beta builds easy access to resources, it no problem at all. I have enjoyed it so far, but now I am looking forward to more of a challenge. When the survival aspect is pushed a little harder, I have this suggestion to ship building:

SPACE DOCKS

Any ship with at least one dimension above 12 blocks, should be designed and build in a space dock

Space docks work are placed and expanded like docking modules. A single space dock creates a "dock" area of 15*15*15, and each space dock enhance expands the dock by 3 blocks... just as with docking modules.
If a ship core is spawned within the dock, it is automatically placed at the center of the dock.

Within the docking area, a player is able to DESIGN a ship, using any block in the game.

When the design is ready, the player must activate (R) the space dock block, and it will begin building the ship, one block at a time, at a rate of one block per second. The blocks needed must be supplied by a chest connected to the dock (use C and V, just as you would connect cannons and computers).

BLUEPRINTS should no longer be able to spawn in ships, only at the cost of credits. Instead, blueprints should be loaded into docks, and the ship build as described above.

Both ships and STATIONS should be able to have Space Docks, but only stations should be able to have space dock enhancers. In this way, a carrier might be able to rebuild fighters, or a destroyer able to rebuild torpedoes (for if/when custom build torpedoes are implemented).
Alternatively, enhanced should be allowed on ships, but then only increase the area by one block.

MORE blocks could be added:

• Space Dock Booster: Increase the rate of construction by one block per second.
• Ship Merchant: Other players can purchase ships from the dock. The owning player can have up to five blueprint loaded in the merchant, and set any price for each blueprint. A purchase will only be possible if the right blocks are available.
• Guild Trader: Blocks needed for the ship will be purchased from any guild trade station in the same sector. Only if the chest cannot supply the blocks, will this be used.

The EFFECT, i hope for, is that there is true motivation for setting up a factory, to supply the player with the needed materials. Also, in a PvP environment (with protected bases), a destroyed enemy will have to wait for a new ship... the larger the ship, the longer the wait.​

 

[ArgoContar]

We have gone through this many times before and it's still the same... It's not going to work for 2 reasons:

1. Bigger ships will need ridiculus ammounts of time to be built.
2. Again bigger ships will need huge ammounts and a large variety of blocks.

1. Nobody wants to wait for days for his ship to be built in the way you are suggesting here. Small ships are ok but when you go over to titan size or even battleship size with is over 500 000 blocks you will get why this method is not practical. The only way for this to be practical is for the ships to be built at a faster rate.
For example if we use mass to calculate the time aka small ships with 10 000 blocks or less take 1 minute to be built but the higher the mass the more time it takes with maybe 1 hour max for ships with a block count of more than 500 000 blocks.

2.The problem here is the same as with the first reason. Some ships are big and have a high block count. With this the shops you suggested will never work because they will always run out of supplies, so buying ships should be only with credits.

 

[Enkelados]

i really like the idea but the build rate should be FAR higher 1 b/s? a little scrappy fighter would need minutes to build. A 4000 block ship would nee more than an hour. Dock enhancers should also increase the build speed.

 

[andbruu]

ArgoContar
Ok. I can understand why the speed may be to slow. Its not one I have put much thought into... more of a concept. It could be some scale like:
100 blocks takes 1 minute
300 blocks take 2 minutes
1000 blocks take 3 minutes
x3ish +1 minute

I can also see the problem in having enough blocks available, but on the other hand, if this should never be a problem, why have the blocks as items in the first place (generally in the game). You could then just pay credits for each block you placed, doing away with inventory.
The concept of buy-a-titan shops does not fit my personal view of cool-game-in-space. Not saying it should not be possible, just saying I thought it as a way of buying fighters, shuttles and perhaps a frigate, or a new turret for your own vessel.

I do not say this is a perfect plan, and I have mostly played single player, so the dynamics of PvP is somewhat unknown to me. But I dislike the credits-for-ship-concept. With the current concept, I can just purchase and dismantle until I have the blocks i need.

Finally, I have not gone through this many times before. I held back on the old forum, because people tend to criticize new members bringing up old ideas. I thought this a chance to start anew.
Perhaps old ideas in a new light can be good, or they can spawn other original ideas.

I like the input you gave, and as with any suggestion, I expect the Devs to qualify those they would like to implement.

Enkelados
Enhancers could indeed be used to boost construction, if the concept of a separate booster block does not work. Keeping new blocks to a minimum has its own advantages. Keeps it simple.

 

[Pep]

inb4 the larger the ship to be build, the larger the dock will have to be(block/mass), the larger the consumptions of energy it will take and required if it needs power tanks in it.

inb4 you will have to build a "robotic arm" in the docks for that

think of all those calculations

 

[RoyalWolfe]

your problem isn't the idea is bad. it that your not considering it the way schema does. you are completely forgetting to weigh the pros and cons of your idea. the cons of you concept are already a deal breaker. Schema has already said that he does not in any way want to over limit the players imagination. and that is exactly what this concept does. see your basically putting a hard cap on how big ships could get, and he himself says that is not going to happen ever, and as long as any idea pertaining to such is the case. he will not do it!

 

[andbruu]

lordWolfe
I do not think it puts a hard cap on, except if there is a cap on the number of enhancers you could use (is there?). I can understand why we should not limit creativity, but perhaps, at some point, the developer would like to create a game mode that trade a bit of the challenge to our creativity, to a lot of challenge to building ships.
I am somewhat new to Starmade, and I have no idea what the developers want, like, or dislike. Right now my suggestion springs from what I like.

I like to build ships that feels right to me. That does not involve making a big cross of thruster blocks in the center of the ship, but instead place those thrusters at the rear, in big circles. I find it cool even if the "rules" of the game limits my speed to block ratio.
In the same way I like to suggest new things that I find cool... even if the developers does not like the suggestions. Perhaps they mad add it as an option, or a mode, or some-one will make a mod.

@anybody
I was hoping for some more sparing on the concept, instead of it-cant/shouldnt-be-done. Tell me how you think this concept could be improved. What limits it have, how to overcome those limits, or if you find the limits a nice challenge.

 

[RoyalWolfe]

you also do not need to try so hard to sell your idea i am not belittling you simply telling you why schema says it not going to happen if you cannot accept that then stop right here.

 

[Ithirahad]

The actual build rate can be a curve... a ship of, say, 5000 mass might take something like 30 minutes to build, and a huge ship... say, 300,000 mass... might take two or so hours... But a gigantic ship, which linearly might take a few IRL days, would only take, maybe, 6 hours to complete.

...Also, Blocks/Credits should remain an option, as it is now. There's no reason why not.

...I also thought of something: Perhaps Spacedocks should have a larger default dimension than docking blocks, but enhancers should be expensive, in the order of hundreds of thousands each... Shops and large faction bases could also have large spacedocks that charge guests a service fee for using the dock, or even for things like copying blueprint items.

 

[andbruu]

Ithirahad
I think that build time has to be a curve, both from your input and the other. I can see the problems with having a flat time-to-block ratio. Dont know how booster blocks would handle it, but curves may be a more simple and effective way to handle it. Still like the possibility of players being able to have a "better" space dock than others... Ohh so the Red Sons of Maul have a 100k cubic yard dock, that builds the dauntless class in less than an hour. oh my! or something like that...... Blueprints get "faster" the more you use them.. hmmm

Nice input on the option of having block/credits. If a balance can be achieved between factory set-up and credit income, both options could be available at all times. say you lack 500 AMCs so you have to fork out a bit of cash for those, while building the rest from your factory output.

Also like the idear of trading/selling blueprints.
Rental of docks would be cool, and can be combined with NPCs renting out medium docks for players who dont have the cash to build a base.

Im not quite sure on the more expensive enhancers. Perhaps enhancers increase the chance of pirates attacking the sector. Then you have to build turrets... and the increased cost instead comes in the form of increased demands on defense. Don't know how this would interact with invul. bases.

 

[ltmauve]

I certainly like this idea. Could repair be a function of the shipyard as well? As for construction speeds, having a seperate kind of enhancer might work, but don't forget the power requirement. That would impose a type of limit as well - the amount of power that can be generated.

 

[Zedrackis]

I like the general idea but I would prefer if

• It was a enhancement block to existing dock modules
• It could would connected to plex storage, factory inputs, or a shop block to get materials
• It could be connected to factory enhancers to speed up build time rather than a new enhancer block
• Admins had option to turn this or shop purchasing of ships on/off. With shop purchasing being off by default and this being on.

I don't like

• Buying directly from the sector shops because it could buy blocks other players actually next to the shop might want to buy. It just seems lazy over all.
  
• Selling ships, as the current shop module is rather buggy and limited, this could only end poorly at this time.

This would be an overall good replacement for the current log into a server, and poof in your ship next to any shop. It also might fix current problems with spawning really large ships as it would be material based rather than money based.

 

[rocketman221]

I like the idea of using docks to build ships from blueprints and making repairs on existing ships, but I don't think a dock should be required to build a ship by hand as it would be too limiting.

 

[andbruu]

Had not thought about the repair, but that would be great. Repairing after a blueprint, so you don't miss any blocks. It repairs both damaged blocks, and replace those destroyed.

Interesting idea of using the existing docking block, and the factory enhancer also. Cuts down on needed blocks.

Just remembered the 4X games of old (MoO2 and others). Many of the orbital construction facilities looked a lot like an exo-skeleton, and the ships were build within. Perhaps if there was a reason to build inside a semi-closed docking area, we could get that look. Don't know if it is too much hassle to build a very large structure to produce ships, and it would make it troublesome to expand the dock beyond the confines of the exoskeleton.

 

[DarthHonky]

lordWolfe
I think this idea has potential, but ONLY for uploading large ships from a catalog. That would give some balance to the game so far as a player couldn't just instantly spawn in a huge ship, it would have to be done at a shipyard. Also, players should be able to construct their own shipyard at a faction base, which would add to immersion/realism. Construct them like we currently do the stations (lots of credits and immobile, no cap on size), and have the only limit to the ships being spawned be that they have to fit inside the shipyard. Instead of having enhancers, have the inner dimensions of the shipyard (and this is assuming the curved skeletal style of shipyard) determine the dock size, i.e. the bigger you build the shipyard, the bigger ships you can spawn in. Enhancers would not be practical. As for speed, for balance purposes, maybe have one block per second up to 10000 mass, and 10 seconds per block after that. Or if you really wanted to nerf it, have the shipyard ONLY construct the exterior shell, leaving the power, weapons, shields, etc. placement up to the player after the shell is constructed. Once again, this is ONLY for spawned-in blueprints from the catalog. If a player wants to just start building a ship, more power to em.

 

[andbruu]

Ok, so if players are free to build ships as they do now, should the dock allow them to design blueprint containing any block - via placing ghost blocks?

 

[DarthHonky]

Ok, so if players are free to build ships as they do now, should the dock allow them to design blueprint containing any block - via placing ghost blocks?

If the devs could work out a way to have players place ghost blocks in that manner without making it a gamekiller, then yes. But I think that this idea would be better suited for spawning ships in. It shouldn't be the only way to build large ships, but it would be a good way to add some more immersion. It offers an alternative to just spawning in a blueprint and *poof* there it is. This would go a long way toward discouraging spamming on servers as now if a player wants to spawn in some massive titan, then they have to A. find a shipyard big enough, and B. wait for it to be constructed.

 

[Jack Caos]

i like the idea of ghost blocks.

maybe we could have a construction beam which builds the blocks on the ghostblocks position when fired on a ghostblock.
so we could buy construction drones/shuttles what ever. or a turret which fires the construction beam.

that would alsso allow us to use the standart docking blocks for the shipyard.

with better AI we could automate the construction turrets/drones whatever

the blocks would then be taken out of a plex storage or out of the players inventory if he controls the construction beam.

that would finally allow us to construct ships out of blueprints instead of spawning them by building ghost blocks or asingning blueprints to shipcores/buildblocks. and would not limit us in size and buildspeed 'cause the constructionbeam would build more faster if you have more beams and more constructionbeam blocks.

so you dont have the problem with buildblock-fast-mining and instant-gigantic-ship-spawning but not limiting everything (ok you may have a problem when no materials avaylable. but that could be solved with a good economy)

 

[rece ktore leczo]

your problem isn't the idea is bad. it that your not considering it the way schema does. you are completely forgetting to weigh the pros and cons of your idea. the cons of you concept are already a deal breaker. Schema has already said that he does not in any way want to over limit the players imagination. and that is exactly what this concept does. see your basically putting a hard cap on how big ships could get, and he himself says that is not going to happen ever, and as long as any idea pertaining to such is the case. he will not do it!

I don't understand how is this supposed to limit players imagination. During Q&A Calbiri said that shipyards may be in game (correct me if i'm wrong). The idea of Shipyard has many pros and little of the cons, just as slow building of titan class ship, i feel as a great pro. The 500 000 blocks ship should be HARD to get. And i'm not talking only about designing it, but also gathering resources and then waiting for days for it to be built.

Right now if we loose 500k blocks ship it's just "meh... i'm gonna make faction blocks from the dirt and then just build another one" (btw economy is also broken, but it's probably going to be fixed much later). But if You had to put much more time and effort to get that ship, then You wouldn't just fly around with multiple copies of it. And Your enemies would have a reason to attack You as destroying Your titan would actually hurt You and/or Your faction. Which imo would be awesome.

Shipyard/space dock fixes current system of spawning enormous ships, which is clearly broken.
There wouldn't be any hard cap on ship sizes. Only the players would be motivated to get the fastest, biggest shipyards, so they could build massive ships. And it would feel as some kind of achievement.


If players would like to play Starmade only to build ships, they can do it on SP, but MP shouldn't be only to show off players creations, but also for competitive gaming, which is hard to achieve as anyone can have almost anything instantly.

 

[andbruu]

rece ktore leczo
Its something along those lines I was thinking. Its not a limitation, just a challenge to achive your creative project. Not saying that some of the epic builds don't look challenging as of now, but more of a logistic challenge.