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    Ship Core Exit Point

    Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by 22SAS_Wimp, Mar 17, 2014.

    1. 22SAS_Wimp

      Joined:
      Oct 15, 2013
      Messages:
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      This is a suggestion to the Devs about allowing the player to select and chose where they get out of a ship core.

      I understand that, as mentioned in the "StarMade Devs Q&A" videos, you plan for ship "coring" (destroying a ships core) to not be how ships are destroyed in the future. But it wasn't made clear as to whether or not the ship core would still be the block players would need to enter in order to control their ship or if you would introduce some other method instead (ie a chair), and if that is the case then you might consider this an undesired bit of work just for a temporary mechanic. However, the ship core is what we have now. ;)

      At the moment, getting out of the ship core can feel haphazard and unpredictable. I feel that a method to allow players to decide where they are placed when getting out of the ship core is both needed and urgent.

      In general, when a player currently exits a ship core, they get out standing on top of it. But it seems that either the player model (both the old one and the new "Dave") is slightly wider than 1 block or slighting fatter (front to back) than 1 block, or the placement of the player is not perfectly within a 1x1x2 (width, depth, height) area, because a block in the "wrong" place can interfere with the player placement upon exiting a core and put them in a decidedly random place.

      Below is an example of a ship core being integrated into a chair design using a single wedge (another chair using just 2 wedges can be seen in the background):
      [​IMG]
      As you can see, the wedge that forms the back of the chair is occupying the space 1 block behind the space above the ship core. I have also tried to re-orientate the wedge so that it's sloping down towards the top of the ship core but the result is the same. I should also note that the ceiling above the ship core is 2 empty blocks away, which is definitely high enough since on top of the core is where I get out when the wedge is moved/removed.

      Below is a pic showing where the ship core is located in the ship (it is just visible beyond the foreground chair in the top right of the cursor frame cube thingy):
      [​IMG]
      As mentioned, there is 2 blocks of "air" above the ship core, there is also 3 block high free space around the core on all sides (except where the wedge is obviously), and below the core is 2 blocks of hull. And yet, when I exit the core, this is where the game places me:
      [​IMG]
      ... outside the ship underneath the 2 blocks thick hull below the core.

      Yes, I know the simple solution in this case is to not incorporate the core into a chair (and just have it on its own), but this is just an example of how getting out of the ship core can be unpredictable, especially in small, cramped ships.



      This is an idea I've had for the solution:
      When in build mode, the player can press their "Select Module" key on the ship core to select it, then they hold their "Advanced Build Mode" button to bring up the top right menu, where-in there should be an option to "Select Exit Point". Clicking on this option places a frame around the ship core (just like the docking modules show a frame) which extends 2 blocks in each direction from the core, within which the exit point must be placed (preventing players from placing an exit point miles away in a different part of the ship), and another frame will be placed at the players cursor for the exit point itself, which is 1x1x2 blocks in size. Here is a mock up of how I think this would look in practice (yes, I know, it's a rubbish picture, let's move on. :p):
      [​IMG]

      I would also suggest (hence why I left the arrow in the cursor frame in that pic) that the exit point should be able to be orientated in all directions to facilitate exiting from turrets, especially those not aligned the same way as the ship to which they are attached. For example, on the sides and bottom of my ship (the green frame of the bottom of which can be seen in both the 2nd and 3rd images) I have 3 salvage turrets with access from the inside of the ship. In the next pic is the access to one of those sideways mounted salvage turrets:
      [​IMG]
      The Turret Docking Module is just visible, so this little access corridor is within the proposed allowable area around the turrets ship core. And since the bottom of the turret is against the main ships hull, the turrets exit point would need to be orientated differently to the turret itself in order for the player using said turret to get out of it into the same access corridor they used to get in to it.
      Yes, I realise this scenario is specific to me, but there is bound to be other players with other setups similar to this where getting out of a turret which is aligned differently to the ship is an issue, and my proposal would stop players getting out of the turrets in space and instead allow them to egress into an access port.



      Hopefully, you find this proposal both worthy and warranted, and my ability to convey that proposal clear and comprehensible. I hope you consider this idea and look forward to possibly seeing this, or something else that combats the same outlined issue, in the future. ;)
       
    2. Viridis00

      Joined:
      Jul 20, 2013
      Messages:
      603
      +1

      Something like a pilot seat really should be made to remedy this. There should be some better detection for exiting too. Sometimes getting out I have enough room where I get out and I\'m inside my ship, others I end up exiting on the exterior. Which is really annoying.
       
    3. 22SAS_Wimp

      Joined:
      Oct 15, 2013
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      121
    4. AxNinjaX

      Joined:
      Jul 29, 2013
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      67
      I\'d love to see a more intuitive entrance/exit system for ships. I\'ve resorted to using more spacious cabins to ensure proper exit, but this would make for more functional and compact ships.
       
    5. jzimmerman4

      Joined:
      Jun 22, 2013
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      1,182
      This is defiantly needed but maybe an easier way to implement it would be to select which way you exit when you are outside of a core, just like when selecting the output on an amc array.
       
    6. 22SAS_Wimp

      Joined:
      Oct 15, 2013
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      A nice suggestion, jzimmerman.

      Or, another easier implementation would be that the player gets out of a ship core into the exact same place & orientation that they were standing when they got in. Obviously, the place we were standing when we got in is a perfectly viable place to get out into, since it would be clear of obstacles other wise we wouldn\'t have been able to stand there to get in. :D

      Thanks for the support thus far peeps. ;)
       
    7. NeonSturm

      NeonSturm StormMaker

      Joined:
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      Just save the player-position/orientation relative to the ship core when you enter and restore it when you leave (requires rotating like suggested here http://star-made.org/content/drifting-while-space-without-ship).



      Currently the player gets out in a 3x3x3 cube with the core in the middle of one surface (6 sides).

      You may end outside your ship if you have just 2 blocks one right-front-top of your core and one left-behind-bottom of your core.

      Usually, you should place the block between two other blocks on your floor/ceiling to get a possible go-out on 4 sides, or put it into the floor/ceiling and block the other side to get a go-out on top/bottom.
       
    8. 22SAS_Wimp

      Joined:
      Oct 15, 2013
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      \"Just save the player-position/orientation relative to the ship core when you enter and restore it when you leave...\"
      Didn\'t I say that exact same thing in the post directly above yours? Who\'s not keeping the forum clean now? :p
       
    9. ltmauve

      Joined:
      Aug 28, 2013
      Messages:
      1,835
      Yeah, I have a few designs that also wind up with issues. So here\'s a proposed implementation: (warning wall o\' text)

      Rather than have the player have to go through and set all the exit points manually, the game will automatically attempt to put the player as close as possible. Except this time, it\'s done better.

      1:If the player enters the core in gravity, the player\'s coordinates relative to the ship are saved. The player spawns in the same location.

      2:Start with the layer below the core, and check the 3x3 square around the core for open blocks. If you don\'t find any there, go to the 8 blocks around the core (with the same y-position) and check those. Then check the 3x3 above the core.

      3:Once an open block is found, the blocks above and below it are checked as well. If one of those is open, the player is spawned in those two blocks, oriented towards the ship. If the open block doesn\'t have an open block directly above or below it, go back to step 2
       
    10. NeonSturm

      NeonSturm StormMaker

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      You :D

      I wanted to add something to what you said. Also suggested elsewhere before you did (here) :p
       
    11. Ithirahad

      Ithirahad Arana'Aethi

      Joined:
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      \'Nuff said. Pilot seats, which wouldn\'t collide with players the way I imagine it, would fix this problem. The turret thing is a good point, though... but they would be orientable, like gravity, so you could simply walk out of the turret if it\'s well-designed.
       
    12. 22SAS_Wimp

      Joined:
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      \"pilot seats would fix this.\"
      Yes, it would. But as I said in the original post, we don\'t have pilot seats yet... what we have right now is the ship core. And while implementing an exit point when they plan pilot seats in the future might seem pointless to you, in actuality it\'s probably easier to implement and once implemented can be used when exiting any block - including the pilot seat. ;)

      \"...you could simply walk out of the turret if it\'s well-designed.\"
      The turret being too small to walk out of obviously means it\'s not well designed... obviously. I mean, every ship, no matter how small, must have big turrets attached to it if the intention is for player co-op use... that wouldn\'t look silly at all... no, big turrets on the side of a ship would clearly appear well designed. :p
       
    13. Ithirahad

      Ithirahad Arana'Aethi

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      Particularly in the new update, I woulnd\'t even consider getting INTO a small turret anyway when they\'re often the first thing an enemy will shoot at and are really tiny... That\'s what Bobby AIs are for. In a large ship, you can have turrets with enough space, and enough shielding, to safely pilot as a player.
       
    14. awesome270

      Joined:
      Sep 5, 2013
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      235
      i agree that it could be good to choose where u exit such as the side, front/ back, or up and down.

      i hate being spawned on top of a ship when u get out
       
    15. 22SAS_Wimp

      Joined:
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      \"...I woulnd\'t even consider getting INTO a small turret anyway when they\'re often the first thing an enemy will shoot at and are really tiny.\"
      And since you wouldn\'t then that must mean nobody else would, eh?
      If the gunner manning the defensive turrets is killed because the enemy shoots the turrets first, then so be it - it\'s only a game, co-op in turrets can be fun, they might buy the main ship more time to kill the enemy AND it would demonstrate why the suggestion to controlling turrets remotely is made (else where).

      I\'m sorry mate, but you\'re argueing that the suggestion isn\'t necessary just because you haven\'t come across the issue yourself.
      I think you might have gotten confused about what the issue and suggested solution is. The issue ISN\'T getting out of turrets in different allignments to a ship - the issue is that getting out of a ship core can place the player somewhere unexpected. I only mentioned the turret on the side of the ship thing because I was demonstrating how else the exit point could be used.
       
    16. S7ormblade

      Joined:
      Jun 20, 2013
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      I really like this idea.
       
    17. 22SAS_Wimp

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      Thanks. ;)

      Just to clarify to anyone/everyone - like I said in the OP, this is just a suggestion for solving the issue. I don\'t care if it\'s my idea that gets used or not, so long as the issue itself is address. If they\'re going to introduce pilot chairs or some other method/block for controlling a ship relatively shortly, then any solution to this issue would be made mute. But if that pilot chair or whatever is a long time away, which is what I suspect, then we need something in the mean time.
       
    18. AlveKatt

      Joined:
      Jan 17, 2014
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      71
      I have a ship that I fall out of the bottom when exiting, Very annoying. Could be solved by simply saving the player postion relative to the ship when entering the core, then eject the player to the same position he/she entered from.
       
    19. 22SAS_Wimp

      Joined:
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      http://star-made.org/comment/99130#comment-99130
       
    20. Ithirahad

      Ithirahad Arana'Aethi

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      I\'ve come across the issue a lot, actually... For some reason, if my corvette happens to be oriented a bit off I\'m sometimes dumped out of the bottom of my ship rather than dropped into the core room. However, though perhaps I mis-phrased my response, I just don\'t understand why anyone would want to enter a smaller turret that everything frrom smart players to AIs of any kind is fairly likely to target.
       
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