salvage cannons dont penetrate atmospheres. planetary quarrys *video added*

[OdraNoel]

*added a video and spoilered this post to better explain my self. id recommend just watch the video rather then read this post, as its better explained in the video*

Spoiler: original post

ok so this might be a bit of a masochistic suggestion for us survival guys, and i realize it may be jumping the gun a bit in terms of "we dont know how the new crafting overhaul will be" nor if salvage cannons linked with normal cannons will get nerfed, along with planet optimizations and various other things that need to be implemented to the game before something like this could be properly implemented and truly necessary. however i am sitting here staring at my capsule refinery that has now hundreds of thousands of capsules of all 16 kinds (8 ores and 8 crystals) and it just....dosnt feel right. it was so easy to acquire such a vast amount of resources from simply mining planets with a large linked array.

so if we going under the assumption that first of all, resources will be a lot more useful in the crafting over haul, and that the resources gather from a typical asteroid are actually useful in terms of quantity. (each asteroid gives you around 20 - 25 ores and shards, right now you cant make much of anything with that, hence the incoming recipe overhaul) that combined with a (necessary in my opinion) nerf to linked cannons will still leave planets as a massive reservoir of resources.

my simple solution to this would be that salvage cannons cannot be used to mine from planets. the excuse being that a planets atmosphere (once those get fixed) prevents the delicate salvage beam from working properly.

and now the fun part, in order to be able to harvest a planets resources you have to make something akin to buildcraft quarries. (apart from the normal method of mining in astronaut mode) this would provide the players with incentives to settle, claim, and build refineries/factories/quarries on a planet.

so again i realize this is something that probably wont be necessary until much later down the road, (hopefully not to long tho) but i thought i would get the idea out there and see what people think. this would make mining asteroids viable (currently there next to useless in terms of amount of resources, but thats a recipe issue, which again is being fixed) and solve the potential exploits of that massive amounts of resources within planets. not only that but since each planet segment has specific resources it would make specific resource segments highly valuable. found a segment with natch and parstun resources? (which is necessary for shields) then be prepared to defend it and fight for it!

Edit to add: im makeing a short little video to better describe what i mean and why. should be up in a few hours (damn youtube upload times) will add to OP when its ready.

Edit 2: ok the video is up and ready. its a lil longer then i thought it would be at an even 20 mins. its mainly just to go over my opinions and observations on the crafting system. as well as some ideas. so dont take it as something that im saying needs to be done just more of a brain storm then anything. and remember these are just my opinions/observations. sorry if i sound commanding or bossy or anything like that in the video. if you disagree take it with a grain of salt :p

ill tag @Calbiri because hes the one currently handling the crafting system and its incoming overhaul.

 

[jayman38]

I voted nay, because I think it would be good for the atmosphere to diminish, but not totally disrupt salvage arrays. Maybe have a 10% (server configurable) default effectiveness vs. salvaging asteroids.

Maybe to help encourage settlement and quarries like you were saying, have planet-based salvage arrays work just fine, with maybe a -slight- nerfing due to atmosphere. (Much less atmosphere to punch through.)

 

[OdraNoel]

ok, explanation/opinion video has been uploaded and added to the bottom of OP. remember this is just a brain storm more then anything.

 

[NeonSturm]

I voted y because I think atmosphere should have a huge effect on efficiency.

It would be cool if you can build a salvage loop where 2 opposing blocks create a beam between each other which salvages stuff.

Or have 5..10 m range on salvage beams thus you need to make loops with decreasing sizes like the inside of a cone.

Gave me another nice idea : only enable the outermost parts of an array to work.
​

The object could automatically attach (= make speed relative to, share move effects) to the salvage array and move through 1 step after salvage beams are finished with the layer they salvaged.
You can only salvage something if both sides hit the same entity.

This way you couldn't even salvage planets - only mountains. Except you cut parts apart and pull it into your salvage loop (which could be difficult with planet gravity).​

 

[FunnyBunny14]

I votes yay because it would be a neat little addition to the game. Quick question, can you use salvage cannons from a station? So can you place and then use salvage cannons on a station?

Something else:
I know how the new crafting system is btw, I've got a thread on it: http://starmadedock.net/threads/my-...d-crafting-system-other-opinions-wanted.3566/
I also know that the non-damage beams have stupid slave effects, so I created this thread: http://starmadedock.net/threads/please-rework-slave-effects-for-the-non-damage-beams.3515/

 

[OdraNoel]

yes but this still doesn't solve the issue of getting an extreme amount of resources extremely easily. that and there is still no incentive to settle on a planet. if i understood your suggestion correctly it would still have poeple basically cutting up planets with relative easy from orbit. the idea behind my post is basically to balance the amount of resources gathered from asteroids vs the amount of resourced gathered from planets.

not only that but also to incentivize players to claim and settle on planets as well. in my opinion salvage cannons on planets in any form simply has to go....

and also plz NERF linked salvage cannons. those have to go as well.

i spoilered the post in the OP and left the Video so people are more inclined to watch it then read the post. i examine my self a lot better in the video then i did in my post and also show various examples to demonstrate what i mean.[DOUBLEPOST=1412720975,1412720728][/DOUBLEPOST]@FunnyBunny14 thats a good question, iv never tried putting salvagers on a station. but considering stations are immobile i dont see much benefits to be gained from it. im currently checking out the info you gave me on the new crafting overhaul :D

thank you for that.

 

[Lecic]

I agree. Building a huge salvage array is easy and over powered in terms of resource gain, because you can just devour planets whole.

 

[FunnyBunny14]

Nerfing linked salvage cannons is one of the things I did here: http://starmadedock.net/threads/please-rework-slave-effects-for-the-non-damage-beams.3515/

The new crafting system still uses wuite a lot of resources, it's just manageable now. I think you should still be able to get the same amount of resources from planets, and I think that your quarries might pose a bit of a peoblem if they can't move.

What I suggest is a sonic drill or something like that, which will then be used to create a miner. The miner would be an ai ship that you can build yourself, but you can't use the drills yourself, because that would make this solution pointless. No, I believe that only the ai should be able to use the drills.

When making this miner you'd have to design certain things in a specific way, like drills in the front and thrusters at the back. Once created you could assign an area (everything has to be on one plate) to that miner. It's basically like your quarry, but then more space age like.

The biggest difference with the buildcraft quarries you had in mind would be the assignable area. It wouldn't be gamebreaking, because bigger areas would mean that your miner would be busy for longer. It would just be so beginning players don't need a massive amount of quarries.

 

[Megacrafter127]

Quick question, can you use salvage cannons from a station? So can you place and then use salvage cannons on a station?

Yes, however they can only be fired using logic. And to gain the resources one has to link them to a plex storage.

 

[Lecic]

Something tells me that @FunnyBunny14 is planning on making a station with a scrap yard built in.

I would incorporate a powerful punch-through cannon to one shot the core with minimal resource loss before engaging the auto-salvager.

 

[Megacrafter127]

Something tells me that @FunnyBunny14 is planning on making a station with a scrap yard built in.

*claims idea* proof lies in chatlogs.

 

[jayman38]

If stuff starts growing organically on planets, that will give incentive to settle and claim planets.

 

[FunnyBunny14]

/bump and:
I just thought of a better way to nerf the salvage cannons on planets. Instead of not having them not work at all on them, maybe they could just not salvage resoruces on planets? That way players can still salvage all the terrain, but they can't get the ores and crystals.

A nice addition to this would be to instead having salvage cannons not being able to get resources at all from planet, they would get something like the scraps we now get from salvaging abandoned space stations when they salvage an ore or crystal. These 'fragments' (that's what I'll call them) would of course gain you more alloyed mesh and crystal circuits than the scraps from abandoned stations, but you wouldn't be getting the specific resources you need in the crafting recipes.

Let me know what you think!

 

[NeonSturm]

I really dislike resources disappearing into nowhere.

If you place a block on an abandoned station, you should also just pay scrap.

Resources which disappear should be placed randomly in newly placed blocks. Let the segment or planet core act as buffer?

Maybe you could blow blocks up (or throw them into a black hole) which in turn generates "non-allocated matter | dark matter | ..." for that galaxy.
This non-allocated matter could re-allocate in resource-spawn points. which when they have enough resources and are left unattended could spawn new planets...

IRL energy can not vanish, just transform into another form (electrical -> heat | ...) and that is what I like about all Sci-fi.
The problem is not resources, but where do you get enough resources for low enough invested time|energyy to fit your needs?