Rubber banding when high speed

[antonov]

Hey guys and hi. I was tinkering with starmade and i made the speed limit 300 000 , so when i go over 2000
speed i get rubber banding on sector edge, it keeps throwing me back and i cant get out of sector.
This problem kinda dissapears when i make sectors 100 000 km, and if i drop into wormhole i start accelerating up to 400 000 and then im stuck in endless rubber banding because i cant leave the bh, i endlessly fall into it.
So question is, why rubber banding happens and how to avoid it?

 

[SmilingDemon]

There is a good reason why the default setting is 75.
I have not seen anypne playing with more than 200-250 for that speed setting.
You are simply not supposed to rush through the universe sectors without the game beeing able to build/load/transfer them to you first.

 

[antonov]

"There is a good reason why the default setting is 75. " what's the reason?
"I have not seen anypne playing with more than 200-250 for that speed setting. " how many people playing you seen? I hope its around 95% (which is how many thousands?) so statistic is more or less accurate.
"You are simply not supposed to rush through the universe sectors without the game beeing able to build/load/transfer them to you first." Says who? Why you say that's simple? How did you determine that game can't build/load/transfer them to me? Is there any way to see the process? Like debug commands or something that shows what sectors are currently generated, or loaded?

Don't get me wrong im not agressive i just see no answer, only more questions, since all you provided are assumptions and opinions which confuse even more. I need something more solid. Thanks for info anyway, i already know you "are not supposed to" do that.

 

[SmilingDemon]

The reason is that it is not working and causing problems when you saet it to high. I cant realy anything else than that. The game simply is not handling higher speeds that well for technical reasons i do only half understand.
That i have not seen anyone playing with much more speed is an observation from looking at servers that are around. 200-250 are the fastest ones afaik (which would be up to 500 with overdrive effect).
With to high speed you will have simply already left the sector before the game has had time to load its content. Bigger structures,planets and ships will take time to load. and if you rush through them you are going to break the game.
So you rubber band because your client gets synced to the server output and that ports you back to where the server is at the moment. regardless how fast the client thinks it goes and wants to be. This also apllies to Singleplayer because that is a local server with the gameclient connecting directly to it.

i cant explain it anybetter ... and i might even not be entirely correct about it.

 

[Crusade]

The game simply isn't designed for those speeds.

I play with 350 limit, and I still tunnel through some entities.

The sector loading is that simple. The game simply cannot keep up with the speed you are travelling. If you need to get somewhere that fast, use jumpdrives.

The reason the default is 75, is so most people can't outrun sector loading.

At the most, use 450 speed limit. With overdrive you can still get to 900.

 

[antonov]

So still no answer, just guesses. Let me destroy your n1 guess(assumption) that "it doesnt load because youre "outrunning" or too fast".
If you reach certain speed you start rubberbanding. And you are going to rubberband longer than it takes you to travel at normal speed the whole sector. It can take forever for you to leave the sector if youre rubberbanding. So now what you say is that somehow my speed can not only delay the load to astronomical levels, because youre assuming that it works not
1. im on edge of the sector
2. load curresponding next sector

but
1. im on the edge of the sector
2. but youre too fast so i wont load the next sector for you because of SIMPLY CAN'T DO THAT (read "reasons")

Now the problem here is that if a sector takes time to "load" lol, then why my game loads in 6 seconds, and the sector can take up to infinity to sqeeze through rubberbanding into next one?
I feel that the information i gave about is more than sufficient to destroy your not supported by anything theories. and proceed to next.
You parrot "75 is a limit for a reason", well given the fact your "sectors can't load that fast" is destroyed by observation, there is left only one reason and it's physics tunneling, its when you move so fast that each frame you skip big distance and you can skip huge objects like that.
Why it is a problem? Because of some bugs you can't allow to happen like people getting stuck in cores. But if you DO NOT CARE about that, you don't care. I assume it is introduced so that game does not contain bugs and is meeting quality standard which is very important for beginning indie dev.

I still don't understand why you keep using word simple in this context if you don't know the answer, you just constantly making assumptions and build theories that can't stand the test.
Now to completely demolish your theory take a look at this console command
change_sector /change_sector 2 2 2 X(Integer), Y(Integer), Z(Integer) Teleports the current player to another sector.
which instantly changes sector.
instantly.
[DOUBLEPOST=1420888996,1420887487][/DOUBLEPOST]More tests im in sector 23 121 488
sector size is 100 000
my speed is 48000
and there is no rubberbanding

my speed is 82 000
no rubber banding
sectors switch like tick tock

105 000
backgrounds switching too fast
still perfectly going through each sector
[DOUBLEPOST=1420889108][/DOUBLEPOST]because there is no difference in sector switch between 50k speed and 100k i can assume that there is some minimal 2 second sector load time

 

[Crusade]

/change_sector instantly changes sector, yes. but if you look around you'll notice it shifts you to the same co-ords as you were in the previous sector. It also doesn't have to track your movement through space.

You may also notice that with large sectors, floating-point rounding will cause you to 'twitch' in place. Sector load time depends on what is in the sector, if you fly through a sector occupied by a planet, you should notice some excessive load times.

To be entirely clear, since this is mud currently:

1. The sectors themselves take no time to load.
2. The entities in each sector increase observed load time.
3. High-speed limits are not recommended, as physics tunneling is an issue (the main reason servers have a 250 max, normally). Also, if you have collision damage on, you'll break lots of things.
[DOUBLEPOST=1420890082,1420889901][/DOUBLEPOST]I should also mention that as these entities load, it consumes a great deal of CPU time, when it comes to planets, they have multithreaded generation. Which I've seen peg 6-core CPUs at 100% load.

 

[antonov]

Ok i don't know what happened, all i remember doing is changing the "block load rate" from 127 to 4096 but i don't think it affects the sector load, but damn, im flying at 300 000 and there is NO rubberbanding at all, in contrary to my yesterday experience.
I just don't get it, it just works. But again it still takes around 1.5- 2 seconds to swith sector.

 

[Crusade]

TP to a planet sector, change planet mean to 600, with variation set to 100-200. With higher 'block load rates' it'll choke with large entites.

Well, should choke.
[DOUBLEPOST=1420890443,1420890391][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, with weapon speeds directly linked to server speed limit, have fun avoiding missiles

 

[antonov]

Thanks for input.
Ok i tested and realised what actually happens.
Yesterday i put a navpoint and moved to it, and i experienced "rubberbanding" only because i was looking at the "distance left".
It means that when you're switching sectors youre basically stuck at the end of the sector on server side while it loads, but client shows you moving forward, and the bigger the speed the greater the distance you can travel before youre "released by server" in the next sector.
So the smilingDemon was right saying that's server sync.
Why i thought that wasnt the issue today - i wasn't looking at distance i just was focused on sector numbers and i didn't see any anomalities it kept switching them without any jumpbacks. Now i tested your theory about objects affecting loadspeed, and i can moved though planet containing sector an there was no difference in load time.
I flew through and continued moving at the same rate of 2 seconds per sector.

So the right way to go is just to keep your max speed at less than half of sector size, because thats optimal, i don't know if 2 seconds it limited by hardware or hardcoded or maybe it is possible to modify, for example using preloading or prediction.
Anyway thanks for help and constructive input, thread can be closed.
[DOUBLEPOST=1420891427,1420891232][/DOUBLEPOST]i actually underestimated its 3-4 seconds.

 

[BlisAx]

If it helps, I also believe that Starmade loads surrounding sectors, so when you increased the size of the sectors you allowed more time to load surrounding sectors. Perhaps this is also a factor in rubber-banding, combined with the server sync issue at high speeds. It helps explain why when you increased sector size you could still go at 300,000 in a 100,000km sector (kinda), with reduced or no rubber banding.

 

[Etsija]

I don't know if our problems are related to this thread about sync, rubberbanding, sector loading etc. or not. Let me explain what happens to us on and off:

* first of all, we use rented HW, which is capable of running several Minecraft servers at the same time without problems. Currently we only run one MC server and one StarMade server on the HW
* server speed limit is 120
* player's ping times have huge variation, shooting from 30ms to thousands of ms
* several times a day, when near our faction home (a space station with around 10 spaceships docked), player starts experiencing warping around in his spaceship. Warps can be 10 km to some direction. Stopping the ship doesn't help
* when this happens, the player also cannot seem to "stop" his ship with SHIFT. When nearing our space station, pressing SHIFT brings the speed to 0.0 but still the ship seems to slew slowly to the left when compared to the space station
* docking cannot be done due to this slewing
* player logout/login doesn't help - but can lead to the player losing his ship completely!
* when jumping out of the ship, the ship still continues slowly slewing to the left (it seems ALWAYS to be left!)

The server also gives out warning messages that it hasn't responded for 30 s or so. The only cure to this seems to be to take the ship for a spin, experience "warping" for some time and try to approach the space station again.

 

[SmilingDemon]

- there is some as of now unknown problem with ping times and lag on servers afaik. the problem is beeing investigated but a solution is not yet found.
- the 10km warp: did you change the sector size settings? 10km would be 4-5 sectors on default setting iirc.
- the server not responding is maybe to heavy load on the server. is there a planet close to that station ?
- are realy all ships docked to docking blocks? parking them may cause the collision detection to cause trouble.
- ig you warpback that is very much llikely caused by beeing resynced to your position on the server i think

 

[Crusade]

It sounds like you have the station on the edge of a moving sector. You bring the ships close to it, but they are still occupying a 'static' sector. To my knowledge, moving sectors were disabled. Have you re-enabled them?

Even if you haven't enabled them, it still sounds like you're on the edge of a sector boundary. This is a very likely cause of your warping issue.

 

[Etsija]

Apart from the max speed, I have not changed a single thing in the config. Wouldn't know what to change, for that matter, since we're new to StarMade. Have to look at the sector boundary issue. Is there any practical tool to know if I am near a boundary - other than flying around?

Also yes, we are near two or three planets. I chose the place particularly due to the nice scenery Didn't know the game is so picky when it comes to the location of the space station.

 

[SmilingDemon]

The planets are depending on there size huge performance problems. Unless they are altered (i think by adding something) they do get generated each time someone gets close to them anew(to save disk space for not needed planets). And the generation may in itself cause performance hits.

You may want to look at the admin Commands (if you havent done so already )
http://starmadedock.net/threads/admin-commands.1283/

change_sector_for_uid
and
teleport_selected_to
may be of use to relocate the base to another sector or to center it within one sector Teleport woth 0 0 0 as target does center it afaik)

you may want to make a sector export first to make sure you have a backup before moving stuff around

 

[Etsija]

Is there not a way to see my exact X, Y, Z coordinates in a sector?