Recognized by Council Resources Overhaul

[DryLeavesBoiled]

This proposed system is supposed to be clear, easily identifiable, and memorable whilst also being far more trade and newbie friendly. With rarity being more applicable and directly relating to its use in the crafting tree, which would also be overhauled. The secondary principle is to make a giant mining strip ship viable but require augmentation and alternative strategy later on in progression.

It may well just be me, but I find it easier to think:
"I need to make an advanced computer, therefore I will probably needs lots of that resource that is used for advanced electronics"
Than.
"I need to make something yellow, so let me try to remember which yellow mineral is most likely to be the one I want"

Regardless of whether you personally find it easy or not. The current system is not newbie friendly and deters a lot of players. Most people don't even make anything themselves due to the unnecessary complexity and instead just mine and sell to shops in order to buy the items they need.

This system can still work based on the temperature distribution system the asteroids currently run on.

Planets are potentially due to become more varied later on. This system works on the idea there are more planets to distribute the resources. I will list a few potentials, but just know this thread is not about what planets there could potentially be later on in the game, but more about the distribution of crafting materials. So these are just examples.

Common
Ice (Frozen Desolate Rock)
Dust (Dry Flat Desert)
Arid (Dry Rocky Canyons)
Magma (Mostly Rock & Lava)

Uncommon
Alien (Purple weirdness)
Ocean (Liquid Water with Ocean Floor, potentially lovely tropical beaches)
Terran (Earth Like)
Winter (Snowy & Icy)

Rare
Orphan Planet (Cold lost planet with no orbit)
Machine Planet (Dead Planet of mechanical design)
Molten Planet (An ocean of lava dangerously close to the sun)

Scanners can also play a part. Showing you what resources are available on a planet as well as if your ship is capable of holding/salvaging these resources. Purely an example, this could be done a lot better than below.

Storage Methods
Unique storage methods are required for certain resources. It needs to be made abundantly clear is a player can or cannot hold something before they mine it, or that they are required to do something different.

The requirements of each resource need to be made available to the player from the get-go.

Conventional: The currently way cargo is managed. Stacks of items that can be clicked and dragged in an inventory.
Fluid: Tanks exclusively for gases and liquids. No other items can be stored in here.
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Inventory Augmentation
Dry: Dry storage requires that the inventory be augmented with dehumidifier blocks . The ratio determines the percentage of slots that are effected. Consumes small amounts of power.
Cryo: Cryo storage requires that the inventory be augmented with cryostasis blocks. The ratio determines the percentage of slots that are effected. Consumes power.
Heat: Heat storage requires that the inventory be augmented with heater blocks. The ratio determines the percentage of slots that are effected. Consumes power.

The reason for adding alternative storage methods is to once again to diversify play styles. In may cases players may find it easier to refine at the point of origin allowing them to stick to conventional cargo.

Larger factions may find it easier to have one central refinery they ship resources to using specialized carriers.

It would also allow drones to have more diverse tasks, creating cargo routes and drop off points etc etc.

Generated stations and ships also have a wider scope. Derelict gas refinery? Dust mining ships? The world suddenly has more diversity, or at least the excuse to be so.
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Refinement
The arrow "-~->" determines when a resource can be refined. Refining a resource as a number of advantages.

First of all the refinery is an expansion of the current capsule refinery. A multi-block system that takes refine-able materials and processes them. The size and blocks used in the refinery determine the amount it can refine and store, the speed it processes, and the amount of refined items received from one raw resource.

The second advantage is items will always be converted to an items using conventional storage. Very few players are going to want to operate a ship with multiple types of storage for unique resources. So it's up to them if they create a small refinery for each point of harvest.
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Farming
Farming is presented as a optional method of resource gathering. As some of the materials are self-propagating, players can gather these by allowing them to grow in a pre-built structure. The potential for blocks to assist with this strategy would once more promote alternative play styles. For example, Green Fibers plants could be planted and kept alive outside their usual habitat by using UV lights and sprinklers. Pink Slime and Grey Foam could benefit from auto-harvesters, that activate either intermittently or once they detect growth.
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List of materials is as follows. The spawn location of a resource is mainly just to demonstrate how placement effects gameplay. For example White Metal will be more accessible, so if you require both Brown Ore & White Metal you head to a Magma Planet.

These names and colors of the resources themselves could easily be changed to fit the environment better, right now they are made to be memorable.

The flavor text is to give an idea of the type of crafting recipes they would be used in.

Primary Materials

Black Mineral
Found: Dust, Arid, Orphan
Storage: Conventional
Mostly used in conjunction with other materials as an insulating and bonding agent.

White Metal
Found: Dust, Arid, Terran
Storage: Conventional
Used to make basic hulls and other objects that require structural integrity.

Brown Ore -~->

Brown Ceramic
Found: Magma, Molten
Storage: Conventional
This is a base resource that can be refined. This is to encourage less planet harvesting as resources can be duplicated. It introduces refining as a concept early on.
Used for refinement into other materials to create conductive and electrical equipment.

Blue Crystals
Found: Ice, Winter
Storage: Conventional
Primarily used in power generation technology but also glass and lenses.

These four materials make up the basics. They allow people to craft basic hulls and get a ship up and running from scratch if they wished. They call all be strip mined, but require a visit to at least three planets. Things like shields and more advanced systems are not available using these materials.

Secondary Materials
These can still be on the common planets, but require a different strategy to simply strip mining the place dry. The aim is to create a small, but noticeable jump in the way resources are collected. Factions and players need to think and strategize around resources rather than simply stripping planets.

Most of these(Where mentioned) from this point require an upgraded version of the Salvage Computer, the Mining Computer. The idea is, this computer is made using resources from this tier that still require the basic Salvage Computer, such as Yellow Gems.
The Mining Computer uses a LOT more energy for little more performance. If you have power coming out the wazoo it may not be an issue, but small starting ships may need to have a separate smaller mining laser specifically for these more troublesome resources. AKA encouraging different play-styles. To clarify, I am not out to remove strip mining, just make it more difficult to make a one-ship-winner.

I am not entirely happy with the Mining Computer. I don't believe in adding tiered/upgraded versions of systems is the answer to strip mining as a strategy. In order for a system like this to work, the system needs to differ enough to present itself as an alternative strategy entirely.

Pink Sime -~->

Pink Rubber
Found: Alien
Storage: Fluid -~-> Conventional
Requires Mining Computer or the received resource is “Dried Pink Slime”.
Used in decorative objects for its prismatic properties.

Red Dust -~->

Red Capsules
Found: Dust, Arid, Terran
Storage: Conventional Dry -~-> Conventional
This can be mined from a planets atmosphere or potentially gas giants. Orbiting Mining Stations can be set up to collect this resource constantly. .
Used to enhance hull into more robust forms (armor).

Orange Fluid -~->

Orange Bottles
Found: Magma, Molten
Storage: Fluid Heat -~-> Conventional
Requires Mining Computer or the received resource is “Orange rock slurry”. This fluid is generated by volcanic vents. As a result pools will regenerate over time, allowing the resource to be left to regenerate or allowing collection to be automated.
Orange fluid is highly volatile and thus used in more advanced weapon systems.

Yellow Gems
Found: Terran, Ocean
Storage: Conventional
Can be mined conventionally using a matter cannon, but is deposited on the rarer planets.
Used for their wavelength inducing properties, such as scanners, stealth and jamming devices as well as force fields.

Green Fibers
Found: Terran
Storage: Conventional
Requires Mining Computer or the received resource is “Shrivelled Dead Fibres”.
It’s mainly used in medical applications and respawners.

Tertiary Resources

Purple Pearls
Found: Orphan
Storage: Conventional
Conventionally Mineable but only available on orphan planets.
Used in warp technology.

Cyan Gas -~->

Cyan Canisters
Found: Orphan
Storage: Fluid Cryo -~-> Conventional
Can only be filtered from the atmosphere. Surface structures need to be set up in order to generate this resource over time, which can then be collected either manually, by drone or by way of a specialized module. Planetary bases are more plausible as well as requiring to protect them due to it being a high tier resource.
Cyan Gas is used in fancy-pants systems which are not in the game yet.

Grey Foam -~->

Grey Aerofoam
Found: Machine
Storage: Conventional Dry -~-> Conventional
Self propagating, much like the pink slime, allowing it to be farmed, slower than the pink slime. Requires Mining Computer or the received resource is “Grey Slush”
Used in repair systems and self building objects such as the shipyard and more advanced armor.

Quaternary Resources

These extremely rare are high value resources to acquire. The aim is to create some form of end-game in terms of resources. Something valuable to fight over, steal, protect, explore and find, but still giving a use that is not an unfair advantage. These may change the visual style of a weapon, shield or thruster. Alternatively it may craft into a few rare decorative objects.

They would be in very hostile or dangerous areas. Close to suns, black holes, patrolled by large powerful pirates or hostile factions. People going after these resources would have to be prepared for that specific resource.

A few examples:
You may need more than one ship or a small armada to take on a large number of hostile forces. Or you may choose to cloak on a small ship and get in close.
If a resource is very close to the sun, you may need some form of protection directed towards that.
If a resource is close to a black hole, you may need to consider your thrust capability, a big ship may be more likely to get pulled in.
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This is also purely aesthetic, but I love the idea of having NPC ships tailored to one specific resource hauling. For example: You see a NPC hauling ship with massive fluid containers and know it's made for hauling either Gas or Liquid. Given this knowledge the world could be come a lot more interesting. Pirates or players could target high value convoys. etc etc.

I think new and old players should be thinking "I need to make X, so I need the resource that relates to X based on what the game has taught me"
Rather than 24 resources in 3 types and 8 different colors all with very difficult to remember names and spawn points.

 

[Madman198237]

Wow. Excellent suggestion. Also, instead of this system for collecting red dust (Make it a red gas, I'm thinking Star Wars' Tibanna gas for blasters) the gases should be found on gas giants.

Also, orphan planets should come in ALL types....but have some special minerals/properties based on being supercooled after being thrown from their parent stars. Maybe we could also see some "hot Jupiters", which tend to be responsible for the throwing of rocky planets.

No "Alien" planets, biomass should be based on physical type-a waterworld can have various water plants/animals, Terra can have any type of temperate-planet biomass, molten worlds none, desert dry-living plants, etc.

Machine planets? Someone been playing Halo?

Good. Playing Halo means that you have a future. JK.

Another point: data. You should start each game "knowing" how to find and use basic resources....so if you build/purchase a scanning system, you can find them. But you have to visit each planet and mine their resources in order to find out enough about said resources to scan for them.

Also, make sure scanners are in the basic tech category----IRL, a scanning/detection/communications system is fairly simple, yet absolutely vital.

 

[6ngb]

There are several really nice ideas here, imho:

1. Different raw material distribution. Resources should be common (used for almost everything), uncommon -- used for more advanced things, and rare -- for special things. Resource distribution and usage should lead to supply & demand fluctuations for some real economics. Planet eating and then selling tons of useless or abundant rock at the solid price of 1 cr. should end.

2. Different acquisition devices: miner, 'condenser' etc. Different tech tiers: basic, advanced, expert. Probably EXP could be added. For instance: not only you need some resources for the next tier, but you have to prove yourself 'worthy' to obtain it. If I want to climb up the ladder, I no more can just attach new salvagers on my brick-styled vessel.

3. Different resource storage: fluids, gases, solids, biomass... I should not be able to store everything into a single block. Suppose I want to rob a Mining Corp's transporter on it's way back to some station they own. After some fight I catch it just to see its precious cargo evaporating cuz my ship has no appropriate container for it. The only thing I get is lots of negative rep with the Corp and repair costs. Next time I'd think twice.

 

[Valiant70]

Quite honestly, you could implement this suggestion word-for-word into the game and we'd have a better game.

I am not out to remove strip mining, just make it more difficult to make a one-ship-winner.

This is desperately needed one way or another. I would tweak the mining/salvage computers as follows to improve this effect:

1. Salvage computer - collects common materials
2. Mining computer - collects uncommon materials but gives fewer resources per block when mining common ones. Also drastically slower at mining through rocks and dirt.
3. Advanced collection computer - Collects both common and uncommon resources and is more efficient, but requires small amounts of cyan gas as "fuel" or "ammunition" to operate, making it inefficient for planet-gulping.

I think this will make mining more fun.

Also, orphan planets should come in ALL types....but have some special minerals/properties based on being supercooled after being thrown from their parent stars. Maybe we could also see some "hot Jupiters", which tend to be responsible for the throwing of rocky planets.

I would like to see multiple types, but not the same types that form in solar systems (besides ice, maybe). Orphan planets are necessarily cold and different because they receive very little stellar radiation to heat them up.

 

[alterintel]

I really really like this idea

 

[MacThule]

This is a creative, well-thought out idea, but a little excessive I believe. I am hoping to eventually see a tweak in harvesting that makes planets something more than large, laggy asteroids.

Wiping & re-writing the entire foundation of the game (harvest & crafting) at this point in time though, building an entirely new crafting tree, all new recipes, new graphics for new resources, entirely new harvesting and distribution dynamics, new crafting dynamics, new mining/harvesting interactions with planets... sounds both unpleasant and unnecessary. The current system does function, and such a project would probably halt all other development in the game for 3-6 months before all the bugs got worked out.

Devs are trying to implement fleet dynamics & NPCs - both of which are extensive projects. After that I'm personally hoping they take a breather to focus on balancing and cleanup. Shops are broken. Missiles are broken. Pulse is broken. Shipyards are broken. Harvesting & crafting are currently one of the few things right now that actually works pretty reliably.

Just my 2 cents. Not trying to shoot your OP idea down, but personally I'd much rather see more forward progress and balancing done at this point in time than going back to square one with determining what the basic resources are and how they are acquired.

 

[Valiant70]

This is a creative, well-thought out idea, but a little excessive I believe. I am hoping to eventually see a tweak in harvesting that makes planets something more than large, laggy asteroids.

Wiping & re-writing the entire foundation of the game (harvest & crafting) at this point in time though, building an entirely new crafting tree, all new recipes, new graphics for new resources, entirely new harvesting and distribution dynamics, new crafting dynamics, new mining/harvesting interactions with planets... sounds both unpleasant and unnecessary. The current system does function, and such a project would probably halt all other development in the game for 3-6 months before all the bugs got worked out.

Devs are trying to implement fleet dynamics & NPCs - both of which are extensive projects. After that I'm personally hoping they take a breather to focus on balancing and cleanup. Shops are broken. Missiles are broken. Pulse is broken. Shipyards are broken. Harvesting & crafting are currently one of the few things right now that actually works pretty reliably.

Just my 2 cents. Not trying to shoot your OP idea down, but personally I'd much rather see more forward progress and balancing done at this point in time than going back to square one with determining what the basic resources are and how they are acquired.

Once flora, fauna, and universe changes are implemented, crafting will need to be redone anyway.

 

[MacThule]

Once flora, fauna, and universe changes are implemented, crafting will need to be redone anyway.

Possibly. I hope they fix some of the more crippling issues with shipyards, fleets, weapons & shops first though if that is the case.

I'm guessing that resources & crafting will probably updated at that point rather than taken down and replaced with a completely new system.

 

[Valiant70]

Possibly. I hope they fix some of the more crippling issues with shipyards, fleets, weapons & shops first though if that is the case.

I'm guessing that resources & crafting will probably updated at that point rather than taken down and replaced with a completely new system.

It needs to be majorly overhauled for this reason:

It may well just be me, but I find it easier to think:
"I need to make an advanced computer, therefore I will probably needs lots of that resource that is used for advanced electronics"
Than.
"I need to make something yellow, so let me try to remember which yellow mineral is most likely to be the one I want"

Because that isn't just him. Suspension of disbelief is difficult with the current system. If different materials factored into recipes according to their properties, it would be nicer.

 

[ne3zy]

very good suggestion nothing to say

 

[Ithirahad]

Possibly. I hope they fix some of the more crippling issues with shipyards,

Tons of these fixed in the next release

fleets

Progressively being fixed...

weapons & shops first though if that is the case.

Those are broken?

 

[tn44]

Umm... Yes. Absolutely.

 

[MacThule]

Those are broken?

shops: yes. currently if buy/sell price are set differently they will revert to the same. if shopping permissions are set, they inevitably revert to ALL. 50K cap is too small for gameplay. inability to easily zero-out or reset to default all prices in shop makes managing them extremely tedious for something that doesn't function properly in the first place.

weapons: yes. currently missiles and damage pulses are still dealing no damage; this i'm sure will be fixed soon though.

 

[DryLeavesBoiled]

Wow. Excellent suggestion. Also, instead of this system for collecting red dust (Make it a red gas, I'm thinking Star Wars' Tibanna gas for blasters) the gases should be found on gas giants.

I had a good think about gas giants when thinking it all though. Mining gas giants for said gas is not a new idea and would be a lovely one to see in Starmade.

The problem is, Gas Giants are not something you can land on, so there uses would be purely aesthetic and as a resource.

So, say they’re in the game.
You find one, you want to mine it, so you use a Siphon/Antimatter beam and start siphoning.
You realise you’re going to need to leave it running, so you set up a station/satellite next to it, built it into a nice little gas mining station and maybe set up a few turrets to protect it from pirates.
Sounds fantastic, immersive, and I would love to see this kind of different way of resource gathering.

But it depends how realistic you want to go.
If you can land on them, they’re not a gas giant but a planet with a minable atmosphere. Maybe one so dense it makes scanners useless, allowing for secret bases?
If they’re not traversable, will they damage the ship when entered? Realistically anything would be pulled in by gravity and crushed, which would be a little terrifying and brutal for new players. At the same time a hazard for players to be aware of. Caught in a gas giant’s gravity? Guess the only way to save my ship is to fly towards it and slingshot my way out.

Both methods have their merits and would add to the game, but surface installations is something that could be added on top of features that already exist. Gas giants are something that would have to be added, hopefully without too much trouble. When moons are implemented I imagine gas giants wouldn’t be far off though. Definitely something I would like to see in terms of alternate resource gathering.

Also, orphan planets should come in ALL types....but have some special minerals/properties based on being supercooled after being thrown from their parent stars. Maybe we could also see some "hot Jupiters", which tend to be responsible for the throwing of rocky planets.

So Orphans would be more of a rare secondary environment applied to an already existing planet, meaning it gets placed way out of orbit?

I can certainly agree with that. However I do think all the planets need to be fairly easily recognisable, if not visually then by some form of scanning. It’s important that people old and new can see a planet and recognize its potential to them.

I like the idea of Orphan being more of a secondary status than a planet type, it means other resources could be present and some combinations would be more valuable than others, it adds a dynamic element.

No "Alien" planets, biomass should be based on physical type-a waterworld can have various water plants/animals, Terra can have any type of temperate-planet biomass, molten worlds none, desert dry-living plants, etc.

I personally prefer life to be a rarity, but Starmade currently seems to have made it quite common for the alpha, this may be planned for a change later down the line I don't know.

The planets I suggested are just examples. I used Alien because it already exists. Varying life on different planets would be lovely to see. It wouldn’t be too difficult to randomise a few names and plant types to make it seem like it’s a totally new ecosystem.

Another point: data. You should start each game "knowing" how to find and use basic resources....so if you build/purchase a scanning system, you can find them. But you have to visit each planet and mine their resources in order to find out enough about said resources to scan for them.

I was thinking the tooltip of a resource would tell you where it resides. So as soon as you need it for the first time.
"I need yellow gems."
"They do this."
"They are here."
Simple.

When you scan a planet the resource icon pops up under the name of the planet or something. Many ways of doing it.

There are several really nice ideas here, imho:


1. Different raw material distribution. Resources should be common (used for almost everything), uncommon -- used for more advanced things, and rare -- for special things. Resource distribution and usage should lead to supply & demand fluctuations for some real economics. Planet eating and then selling tons of useless or abundant rock at the solid price of 1 cr. should end.

I wholeheartedly agree. Fluctuations and a basic economy would be great to see, but also the importance of resources and potential strategic value they have to a faction. Potentially encouraging alternate playstyles, selling to other factions, players, or creating a monopoly. Maybe even taking over an enemy station to gain the resource for oneself.

2. Different acquisition devices: miner, 'condenser' etc. Different tech tiers: basic, advanced, expert. Probably EXP could be added. For instance: not only you need some resources for the next tier, but you have to prove yourself 'worthy' to obtain it. If I want to climb up the ladder, I no more can just attach new salvagers on my brick-styled vessel.

I think experience or skill based “unlocks” goes in a different direction to what Starmade is about. Different acquisition methods would work as you say. It would certainly be the better way of achieving that without a playtime bottleneck. For example a particular resource that requires a siphoning station, or a farming station, encouraging players to carve out a constant supply of resources and prevent systematic planetary annihilation.

3. Different resource storage: fluids, gases, solids, biomass... I should not be able to store everything into a single block. Suppose I want to rob a Mining Corp's transporter on it's way back to some station they own. After some fight I catch it just to see its precious cargo evaporating cuz my ship has no appropriate container for it. The only thing I get is lots of negative rep with the Corp and repair costs. Next time I'd think twice.

I think cargo definitely needs more weight as a gameplay mechanic, rather than turning the player into a small black hole. So this wouldn’t be a bad thing to see at all. Again it would encourage other playstyles because if you’re going after gas and want to use your one-ship-wonder, you’re going to need storage tanks.

But at the same time, A very similar game in the way inventory works at present is Minecraft (And I apologize for making a comparison like that). Imagine how awkward that game would be if you have to craft a lumber backpack before you could hold wood, and then a slime tank before you could pick up the loot from slime mobs. If the method of acquisition is already different and requires a new tool, you shouldn't then need a new tool to hold the item too.

Salvage computer - collects common materials

Mining computer - collects uncommon materials but gives fewer resources per block when mining common ones. Also drastically slower at mining through rocks and dirt.

Advanced collection computer - Collects both common and uncommon resources and is more efficient, but requires small amounts of cyan gas as "fuel" or "ammunition" to operate, making it inefficient for planet-gulping.

I think this will make mining more fun.

I like the structure of this idea, but it needs more contrast. Each needs to have a clear different use, rather than an advantage and a disadvantage but to the same job. Currently if the above system was in place, I would just have two systems. One for stripping planets and one for uncommon resources.
Which unfortunately could still be the case with the Mining Computer idea anyway. Which I couldn’t see a way around at the time without thinking of more resources that use alternative harvest methods. The mining computer idea needs work. I still think big mining strippers should be viable, just not as universally applicable.

Wiping & re-writing the entire foundation of the game (harvest & crafting) at this point in time though, building an entirely new crafting tree, all new recipes, new graphics for new resources, entirely new harvesting and distribution dynamics, new crafting dynamics, new mining/harvesting interactions with planets... sounds both unpleasant and unnecessary. The current system does function, and such a project would probably halt all other development in the game for 3-6 months before all the bugs got worked out.


Devs are trying to implement fleet dynamics & NPCs - both of which are extensive projects. After that I'm personally hoping they take a breather to focus on balancing and cleanup. Shops are broken. Missiles are broken. Pulse is broken. Shipyards are broken. Harvesting & crafting are currently one of the few things right now that actually works pretty reliably.


Just my 2 cents. Not trying to shoot your OP idea down, but personally I'd much rather see more forward progress and balancing done at this point in time than going back to square one with determining what the basic resources are and how they are acquired.

I am not going to pretend I know how much work would be involved in a potential overhaul of resources, but changing the names, visuals and spawn locations of resources wouldn’t be a bad place to start and certainly not require anywhere near as much work.

I am not suggesting this is something that should be done immediately, or be a high priority. It’s a suggestion that has not been made to my knowledge, which I find baffling given the fact I think it cuts out a large potential player-base. The same comment could be made on pretty much any non-balance focused suggestion. You’re correct though, there are far more important things to be worked on.

shops: yes. currently if buy/sell price are set differently they will revert to the same. if shopping permissions are set, they inevitably revert to ALL. 50K cap is too small for gameplay. inability to easily zero-out or reset to default all prices in shop makes managing them extremely tedious for something that doesn't function properly in the first place.

50k is silly yes. Shops in general cannot work the way they do for a release. Economy is pretty much required. Buying and selling from one station to another should be viable for a profit, but at the same time, if you were a space-shop would you be keen pay to have your cargo hold clog up with everybody’s unwanted space rock?

I think there should be more crafting options available for junk resources, because there are so many resources that clog your inventory. Maybe a universal junk material such as space concrete and water that are made out of the wastes from strip mining. Stripping a planet bare and then binning 96% of the planet makes me feel like a Vogon.

 

[6ngb]

...I think experience or skill based “unlocks” goes in a different direction to what Starmade is about...

I'm speaking of Survival SP. In SSP the only limit is the player's greed. No matter how balanced the game will become, you still will have the resources of an entire universe at your disposal. EXP would slow you down. And would make you change game style: if mining no longer brings you enough XP, then go fighting, trading, do NPC missions... EXP is an easy imitation of real life. IRL you first ride a bicycle, then you may get driver's license for a car. You are not given a 60 ton 500+hp truck right away. The EXP system should be disabled (optionally per server) for MP, since it will benefit older, established players.

...craft a lumber backpack before you could hold wood...

In MC there are just a sword and a bow. And a 1-handed pick. Here you have a (fleet of) capitol ship(s). It wouldn't be a big deal to have some fluid/solid/gas transports in it if you want to steal someone's cargo. These could be implemented like effects, not exactly like different storage blocks. Anyway, this is just an extrapolation of your idea.

Spoiler: 18+

Side note: in Elite frontier (1/4 century ago), if you hadn't have cargo life support but you buy a cargo of slaves, you ended with a cargo of much cheaper, pardon me, fertilizer.

Stripping a planet bare and then binning 96% of the planet makes me feel like a Vogon.

:D

 

[DryLeavesBoiled]

I'm speaking of Survival SP. In SSP the only limit is the player's greed. No matter how balanced the game will become, you still will have the resources of an entire universe at your disposal. EXP would slow you down. And would make you change game style: if mining no longer brings you enough XP, then go fighting, trading, do NPC missions... EXP is an easy imitation of real life. IRL you first ride a bicycle, then you may get driver's license for a car. You are not given a 60 ton 500+hp truck right away. The EXP system should be disabled (optionally per server) for MP, since it will benefit older, established players.

That's very valid. I suppose an example would be a game like Eve online. You may want to do something from the get-go, but are unable to do so without first getting to the required skill level. I still think it would be difficult to integrate in a way players would enjoy however. Though that may be just due to the fact Eve online was never my type of game ~

In MC there are just a sword and a bow. And a 1-handed pick. Here you have a (fleet of) capitol ship(s). It wouldn't be a big deal to have some fluid/solid/gas transports in it if you want to steal someone's cargo. These could be implemented like effects, not exactly like different storage blocks. Anyway, this is just an extrapolation of your idea.

True, but there's also crafting and player inventories to consider. Say we have one container for fluids and one for everything else. You now have to transfer two resources from your ship to your station, and then get them into crafting. Which may not seem like a big deal with just two, but add any more and you add more layers of complexity for what is more an aesthetic feature than one that adds any new level of gameplay. I love the idea of having more specialized ships though.

Or alternatively add a production step. Gas (stored in it's own block) -> Refinery -> Gas Canisters (Normal inventory). Again it would be more an aesthetic feature, but people could RP out the whole gas cargo/refinery malarkey if they wanted to. I expect most players would add it to their siphoning stations as a necessity.

 

[Ithirahad]

Agreed. I've always disliked the generic and confusing resources we currently have, so any system like this I support.

 

[Madman198237]

Lots of interesting ideas.

Differing storage mechanisms are a great way to impose a tech limit---resources from orphan worlds should need refrigerated storage (Read: Left in a box exposed to the vacuum of space, in a shaded area on the ship) for solid/liquid/gas, because they only form once a planet has been ejected from its star and cast into the interstellar refrigerator. This requires different resources, each of which requires heated/cooled/solid/liquid/gas/pressurized/near-vacuum/biologically suitable/biologically unsuitable etc. storage.

Also, gas giants DO probably have a super-dense, super-heated core of metallic (Yes, metallic; look it up, it's cool) hydrogen, followed by layers of ice and various other solids. However.....you need a ship stronger than any human-made craft to survive the crushing power of the EARTH'S oceans....let alone Jupiter's atmosphere.

It's not a personal black hole....it's a personal pocket dimension. A black hole makes things irretrievable.....and very spaghettified. Yes, again, that's a real word. And it's a fun word. And a very fun process....just not for the person experiencing it.

To get an economy, introduce fuels and their (Sometimes rare) ores and (Rare, especially for higher-tier systems) building materials.

These fuels only occur in appropriate zones of the system---solid materials closer to the star than liquids, which are closer to the star than gases. Read the thread linked at the bottom of the page for more details. Especially in my posts.

Also: A new type of asteroid. Game-breakingly rare, insanely hard to mine and store....universe-sundering to touch....it's the antimatter rock.

Touch it yourself, touch it with your ship; and you, your ship, your neighbor's ship, the best part of the entire freakin' system, and all the framerates in the server go away....because you just experienced e=mc2 at its full potential....and consumed, at first, one cubic meter of antimatter and matter. Which is more energy than humans have ever consumed, at a rough guess. Then the fragments of the atoms of your ship collided with the rest of the asteroid....detonating several hundred cubic meters of the most dangerous explosive in the universe. Dang, you made a mess. Good bye, sucker. Maybe you should've used the mining laser from a distance.

Oh wait, that laser might just be a particle beam.

Good bye anyway.

Thinking about this thread for fuels: Recognized - Fuel mechanic proposal

 

[akimzav]

The ideas of various resource spawn locations and unique gathering techniques, as well as resource value tiers really do make sense, and I personaly agree with you on those things and in general.

However, I feel that your system can further be improved, as I think there is a better alternative to making some rare resources absolutely nessesary for producing, say, jump drives.

What I am proposing is making Tertiary (not Secondary) resources favourable rather than strictly needed.
For instance, assume we want to produse module A, which requires 100 White Metal and 100 Yellow Gems. There, however, will be an alternative recipe, which requires 100 White Metal, 1 Cyan Gas and 5 Yellow Gems.
The goal is to make production a lot cheaper if given some rare resource, although one item of that resource can (and should) be far more expensive than one item of a common one. This will keep the need for rare resources, but in a less intrusive way.
//Note: this can theoreticaly apply to a lower tier Secondary resources as well.

Another way of making rare resources less criticaly needed but still interesting is making stuff that are not vital, but very much desired by a player. Theese can be things like more advanced AI modules, weapons that dublicate existing ones in means of mechanics but are better in terms of efficency and/or have some special properties (think unusual bonuses/specialisations (like having 5% bonus agains shields if using Grey Foam in Antimatter Cannon's recipe)). Theese can also be some completely different, posed as 'advanced'/'elite' tech things (think semi-random useful enhancements, like being able to disable enemy AI for some time, or to put up a temporal invurnerable bubble shield around the ship). Again, it must not be OP. Just unique and useful. I hope I will be correctly understood.
The aim here is to introduce some 'artifact-like' tech (this type of tech often presents in sci-fi univerces of games and movies), which is useful, powerful, quite expensive, very rare but totally worth the search for the sources.
//Note: first and second suggestions are compatible and in my opinion are best implemented together

This is what I think about it. Hoping to get constructive responce.
[DOUBLEPOST=1458087589,1458086880][/DOUBLEPOST]I also suggest resource refining process to be not only different for each type of resource and multi-staged, but also to be upgradable, requiring more and more power, machines, stages and space (structures* become complex and large with higher tiers) , but also maybe the usage of less rare resources (in order to enable or speed up and/or make more efficient the process of refining).
Higher tiers have greater demands, but also greater speeds and outcomes if to speak about speed and/or amount of output.
//Footnote *: couldn't hurt making theese structures have a more complex mechanic than Efficiency=Const*BlockCount

 

[Madman198237]

Wow, nice ideas.

I especially like the first idea, because it means that you can make a whatever-you-want, but it's going to be expensive beyond reasonable if you lack a "special" ingredient that is fairly rare.

This works ESPECIALLY well if you take this resource and limit it to a region of x number of systems within a galaxy. Say that only one arm of a galaxy contains the material you need to make the production of armor efficient. The faction that controls that space is going to get a lot of trade from the faction that controls the efficient material for whatever else; let's say thrusters. These two cooperate nicely because, separate, they can't make dreadnoughts, but together they can make dreadnoughts.

I vote no on "artifact effects" the way you recommend them...but maybe a revamp or addition to the present effect computers/modules. Say this one material is HIGHLY EXPLOSIVE. You can make a higher-level explosive module/computer with it, and link it (Using a different system than the current one, as a 1:1 ratio of weapon to effect should be too hard to get with these. Maybe just make it a very expensive computer that needs no modules in order to add its effect) to ANY weapon, instead of just improving one. Same with many other effects....and maybe some new ones as well.

Again, these materials only occur in connected sectors in one part of each galaxy, making inter-faction relations 100x more complicated. Instant economy! Especially if shop's DON'T sell these rare materials.

Again, nice ideas.