Replace Damage-Pulse with...

[EtherEel]

Plasma Torpedo. (Yes, like the Romulan thingy...)

Basic features of the Plasma Torpedo:
1. High damage weapon (thus it's a good fit to replace Pulse in the Weapon-Linkage Charts.)
2. Missile-like output: it's a pint-sized sun.
3. It travels rather slowly -- probably just barely faster than top thruster speed.
4. It cannot be shot-down. However, it can be shot AT -- any damage the torpedo takes will lessen the damage it causes.
5. Always has "Auto-Lock-On" feature.
6. Short range (relatively speaking) -- it dissipates beyond a designated distance/time from point of origin; also beyond (say) half of it's range the damage output begins to diminish.
7. Size of the "ball of plasma" torpedo reflects its amount of potential damage (ie. beware of the big ones.)
8. Consumes A LOT of power.
9. It's damage feature (distinguishing it from a regular missile) is that rather than causing a "crater" upon impact, the Plasma Torpedo envelopes the surface of the target and spreads-out upon it in a proportional area (kinda like "spit" or ooze.) (So being in a craft small enough to be completely enveloped would be bad...)
10. Less effective against shields than physical objects (harder to envelope an amorphous target, "insert excuse here".)
11. Long recharge time.

(Yes, if you've ever played the old Star Trek Starfleet Command games, it's similar to those plasma-torpedoes... Actually those games had plenty of cool weapons, as well as bad ones.)

This weapon would be something to truly be feared on the battlefield. Essentially, "Stop what you were doing, there's a Plasma Torpedo incoming!" But it would be sufficiently infrequent that it would not dominate on it's own. Smaller ships with plasma-torpedoes (even one) would be quite a threat, and a constant worry.

You may now proceed with all the reasons why this is a bad idea....

 

[Deadoon]

So basically a scaling size and missile-pulse with a corrosion effect ratether than eplosive?

Also, as an energy weapon it should disrupt shields more as it would cause a massive destabilization.

If a weapon is so powerful that it becomes a unbalanced threat like you are pushing it to become, it will need to be nerfed back to be in line with other weapons, otherwise it will simply be the only weapon used.

PS, your clickbait cliffhanger title makes me think even less of your idea.

 

[Wrexin]

Ehh......

 

[Criss]

Sounds cool. Not sure why we need to remove a weapon to make way for this though. Getting rid of the pulse is unnecessary.

 

[starhaiden]

it will be less Op if the corrosive only goes through one block

 

[Crusade]

It sounds like Missile + Damage pulse.

I'm against it because damage pulse makes a great anti-personnel defense. Hook some up to a logic circuit, and presto. You have an automatic astro-killer when they cross certain areas.

 

[jayman38]

I don't doubt that pulse weapons are good defensive weapons for use against astronauts. However, from what I've seen, the astronaut game isn't here yet. As a result, pulse seems more like a decoration block to me; neat to look at but not widely used because it takes away from more-useful block placement. By sending the pulse out into space, it seems to become a more useful system. Might break some existing designs and make a few ships shoot plasma balls off to the sides, but hey, alpha game. If the plasma ball can show up in its host ship's internal spaces when firing, it can -still- be used as an antipersonnel system. To an even greater degree as it passes through the entire length of the ship, instead of a single, static area.

 

[jstenholt]

Ehh......

My exact reaction. What you described is a fire and forget missile-pulse.

 

[Dragleones]

In the current weapon system the primary weapon determines the "shape" of the weapon (projectile, missile, beam, pulse).
Your plasma torpedo belongs more or less in the category missile as Crusade said. Plasma torpedo wouldn't really fit into the weapon system since it doesn't bring a new "shape" as a primary system into the game.

But i definitly agree that pulse needs some love.
A while ago somebody suggested making the pulse a cone effect, which is imo the way to go.


It wouldn't even change that much. Pulse would continue to be a slow travelling, long cooldown, high damage weapon, but it would be possible to give it much more range without making it imbalanced.
In Dogfights it would be a high risk high reward weapon and apart from that another tool against bigger slow maneuvering ships.

Pulse + Cannon slave : Increasing rate of fire
Pulse + Missile slave: Increasing cone/angle up to 360° while reducing range/radius
Pulse + Beam slave: Increasing range, while reducing cone/angle
Pulse + Pulse Slave: Longer Cooldown, More Damage

100% missile slave would result in the current pulse.
I like the pulse as it is now, but i don't think it needs to be its own weapon system.

 

[MacThule]

An enveloping/spreading surface effect sounds awesome, but let's not confuse that with pulse. Pulse is an entirely different weapon system, and needs to be fixed itself, not gotten rid of. There's no limit on weapon systems, so there's no need to "make room."

I think that what you're talking about would be an excellent Effect. You could attach it to existing torpedos (mis+puls), as well as to beams (and I suppose AMCs, but they would rarely be powerful enough to warrant it), allowing a beam to deal wrap-around damage to a large surface area as well, not just torpedoes.

I think it would be hard to implement though. It's easy to calculate a radius, but less straightforward to calculate what constitutes "surface" from one block to another.

 

[SkaireKrough]

EtherEel said "old Star Trek Starfleet Command games"

Star Fleet Command is based on an even older tabletop/board game called Star Fleet Battles (SFB). They had 2 types of seeking weapons in the game when I last played, drones (like missiles) and plasma torpedoes.

Basic features of the Plasma Torpedo:
1. High damage weapon (thus it's a good fit to replace Pulse in the Weapon-Linkage Charts.)
One of the highest burst damage weapons in the game. (No real need to replace the pulse weapon)

2. Missile-like output: it's a pint-sized sun.
True, that is how they were shown in illustrations.

3. It travels rather slowly -- probably just barely faster than top thruster speed.
In SFB ships could move a maximum of 31 spaces per turn, plasma torpedoes moved 32 per turn.

4. It cannot be shot-down. However, it can be shot AT -- any damage the torpedo takes will lessen the damage it causes.
They can be 'shot down' it just takes a lot of damage to do so, each 2 points of damage dealt to the torpedo decreased it's warhead damage by one.

5. Always has "Auto-Lock-On" feature.
Both drones and plasma torpedoes needed the launching ship to have a lock-on to the target. Most drones required the ship to maintain that lock-on or they would loose tracking and go inert, plasma torps had their own tracking after launch.

6. Short range (relatively speaking) -- it dissipates beyond a designated distance/time from point of origin; also beyond (say) half of it's range the damage output begins to diminish.
True, plasma torps had a maximum distance they could travel before dissipating to nothing, largest was 30 movement spaces. Once about a third of max distance traveled was reached warhead strength dropped to about 75%, it got progressively worse the farther it traveled.

7. Size of the "ball of plasma" torpedo reflects its amount of potential damage (ie. beware of the big ones.)
Ships within range knew how big the warhead strength was at all times.

8. Consumes A LOT of power.
Not really, most weapons in SFB were statistically designed to use one unit of energy to produce 2 points of damage over their entire range. Plasma torps were a multi-turn arming weapon that needed about half of the required total arming energy during the launching turn.

9. It's damage feature (distinguishing it from a regular missile) is that rather than causing a "crater" upon impact, the Plasma Torpedo envelopes the surface of the target and spreads-out upon it in a proportional area (kinda like "spit" or ooze.) (So being in a craft small enough to be completely enveloped would be bad...)
Plasma torps had 4 different firing options.
1. Standard seeking mode - normal energy use, standard warhead strength.
2. Shotgun - double final turn of energy, double total warhead strength but split into multiple smaller warheads, each had to have a different target.
3. Enveloping - double final turn of energy, double total warhead strength, upon impact damage is split evenly across all six 'shields', not sure how this would work in Starmade with one unified shield per ship or how it would apply damage from all directions.
4. Bolt - normal energy use, direct fire, damage equal to 50% of effective warhead strength if it had to travel the same distance.

10. Less effective against shields than physical objects (harder to envelope an amorphous target, "insert excuse here".)
In SFB plasma torps had the same effectiveness against shields as the majority of other weapons in that game.

11. Long recharge time.
Yes, 3 turns, as opposed to phasers and disrupter at 1 turn and photon torpedoes at 2 turns.

Near as I can tell there is no effective difference between the pulse/cannon and the pulse/missile combinations. Perhaps the pulse/missile combo could be changed to act somewhat like the plasma torpedoes is SFB. Maybe use the mechanics and stats for a missile/pulse combo but decrease the max distance, have the warhead loose strength with distance traveled and damage taken, have its hit points and warhead set to the same variable.

 

[CyberTao]

Near as I can tell there is no effective difference between the pulse/cannon and the pulse/missile combinations.

/cannon and /missile on damage pulse is identical. The original plan was to have the /missile fire off pulses in quick succession, like a burst fire, but the game is not capable of it yet it seems. Maybe someday.

That said, you listed 4 different types there, 1 more and you could've had enough variants to replace a weapon (though as a new separate weapon, you'd need a 6th, and a gimmick to apply to all other weapons as well).

 

[Ithirahad]

Sounds cool, but kind of redundant... We already have Missile/Pulse.

 

[SkaireKrough]

/cannon and /missile on damage pulse is identical. The original plan was to have the /missile fire off pulses in quick succession, like a burst fire, but the game is not capable of it yet it seems. Maybe someday.

That said, you listed 4 different types there, 1 more and you could've had enough variants to replace a weapon (though as a new separate weapon, you'd need a 6th, and a gimmick to apply to all other weapons as well).

A series of rapid point-blank damage pulses, really? What was the intent, to allow ramming ships to bury their prow in opponents?

My intent was not to suggest a new weapon but inform how plasma torps worked in SFB. Those 4 firing modes were for just one weapon, no reconfiguring or combining with other weapon systems. Would not fit well with Starmade weapon design concept.

The enveloping fire mode would most likely never be able to be put in Starmade and really no need for it. It was put in SFB to allow plasma armed ships to take advantage of downed or weak non-facing shields to help balance the weapon. We don't have separate shields to protect our ships from incoming fire from different directions in Starmade.

The direct fire mode is easily taken by the beam/pulse combo.

The shotgun mode would be too close to the missile/missile combo, dangerous to anyone not in your faction, I don't think we need anymore of that in Starmade.

Sounds cool, but kind of redundant... We already have Missile/Pulse.

The standard fire mode currently cannot be replicated in Starmade. The missile/pulse combo has a good burst damage and long re-load time but differs from SFB plasma torps in that it can be launched from a some what safe distance away and is also somewhat easily shot down, one point of damage from any source and it's done. I would suggest that the reverse combo would have to be launched from much closer ( within range of direct fire weapons ) as distance traveled would degrade the warhead, and it would take much more concentrated firepower to shoot it down. Which means your opponent would have to divert his direct fire weapons from your ship to the torpedo to prevent or minimize the incoming damage.

 

[EtherEel]

Okay, there's been enough activity for me to respond.
Preface: I'm surprised that ANY of you liked this idea! I appreciate your appreciation. I was preparing for universal negativity because I'm just some noob without any sense of the game's history, and yall are used to things being the way they are. (I'll avoid quoting O.W. Holmes...)

The reason why I suggest this to REPLACE the Pulse is because, as I stated in someone else's thread, I believe the Pulse is an unused weapon -- not under-used but just not used at all. (Except as a cool engine-effect as seen in the Engine-Porn thread.) And I don't see a viable way to make it into a useful weapon other than it being relegated to "adjunct-only" status. Better to abandon the Pulse now while it's easier to make changes. Simply adding the Plasma-Torpedo as a 5th weapon currently upsets the linkage chart -- we'd need a 6th weapon right away to maintain balance (well, "need" is too strong a word, but you get the idea.)

SkaireKrough certainly understands the basic premise of this weapon, but remember that it would have to be adapted to THIS game, not merely transferred.

To those of you who think the Plasma Torpedo is just a Missile/Pulse clone, I say: They are about as similar as being hit by a baseball (the missile) is to having Zydrunas Savickas smother your face with a catchers' mitt (the plasma torpedo.) Not the same at all. (Are Beams and Cannons too similar? Should we get rid of one?)

Lastly, though I could say a lot more, I'll close by reminding yall that this thread is in the SUGGESTIONS Forum, not the DEMANDS Forum. Food for thought.

Cheers m8s (& m8-esses),
~EE

 

[CyberTao]

we'd need a 6th weapon right away to maintain balance

I'm not sure what you mean here, why would another weapon be needed?

Also, damage pulse has a unique damage style, it damages all blocks in range, which is more devastating than the missile's staging system. It does get used, even if only rarely and/or for gimmicks, it's worth trying to fix. Would make a grande anti-capital ship weapon if it got fixed up right.

Your weapon's damage style, the wrapping around, does sound neat, but I wonder how it'd end up working out. There is a Shipwide Armour system coming with the HP system, meaning ships would be covered in possibly multiple layers of armour all over (Ignoring the fact that I'm not even sure how the engine could do that kinda thing).

We do already have a "5th" weapon system planned though, the famed MineLayer system which we were told about pre-forever, plus a possible 6th, "Drone", which Calbiri mentioned he was thinking about in chat once. Adding another (provided it is well thought out) isn't that out there, it just needs to be interesting enough, and balanced.

 

[EtherEel]

I'm not sure what you mean here, why would another weapon be needed?

Oh, disregard that -- had a faulty thought stuck in my head.

However, are all "new weapons" that come out gunna be on the linkage chart (requiring new variations be devised)? Or will some be independent (and therefore "unmodifiable")?

So, if you really love your Damage-Pulse, think of this as "New Weapon: Plasma Torpedo." How's that?

 

[CyberTao]

Oh, disregard that -- had a faulty thought stuck in my head.

However, are all "new weapons" that come out gunna be on the linkage chart (requiring new variations be devised)? Or will some be independent (and therefore "unmodifiable")?

So, if you really love your Damage-Pulse, think of this as "New Weapon: Plasma Torpedo." How's that?

I love the idea of pulse, but the range is such you almost have to ram a ship to use it right now, so I unfortunately don't use it (not that I have many ships anyways). Allow it to fire say 200m before detonating and I'd stick on smaller ships without a 2nd thought.

I dunno if variant will be required, but it would allow us to have more weapon combinations with fewer IDs in the long run. You don't need to have the exact weapon (doesn't have to be called Photon torpedo), but it could just be a combination that would act very similar to it. As a master system, it needs a unique damage system, and as a slave, it would need a consistent gimmick (like how /beam always increases range).

I'll throw in the (very) old weapon chart, just to show you how the original design process went (more or less).

Spoiler: Very Old

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

The thing about adding a new weapon is it has to do something distinctly different enough. It can't just be a missile, beam, or cannon with different base stats. They also have to be fairly neutral when it comes to anything that otherwise would be adding lore to the game.

 

[EtherEel]

The thing about adding a new weapon is it has to do something distinctly different enough. It can't just be a missile, beam, or cannon with different base stats. They also have to be fairly neutral when it comes to anything that otherwise would be adding lore to the game.

1. Why does it have to be "distinctly" (ie. "completely") different? (Did you not read the opening post?)
2. The notion of "Lore" in a new game that is not based on some established work of literature/cinema is preposterous. There is no lore here.
3. Better to have "things" that are useful and usable than things that are not. For the Damage Pulse weapon to be considered usable, it would require such significant changes that it would no longer actually be the Damage Pulse weapon. It's a silly waste of effort. And you ALL know that no one uses it.

So I'm gunna go ahead and quote Oliver Wendel Holmes for yall's benefit, in case you forgot or never heard it:
"Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."

P.S. Actually, pretty much anything would be better than the Damage Pulse as it is (an exaggeration, I know.) I cannot be the first to suggest replacing it. I know some of you, whom I respect, are resistant to this idea -- a lot; but I challenge you to consider the possibilities of making it feasible in comparison to the future of the game. And in my opinion, you all should think about a weapon to replace to the Damage Pulse.

~