Procedurally Generated Ship Graveyards, Radiation and Reduced Salvage Beam Efficiency.

    MossyStone48

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    Here's an idea based on the Radiation warnings near stars.
    We're only warned about solar radiation when it is already causing damage. I'd love to be able to install a RAD Detector or K-Meter or w/e on my bigger ships. Put it on the hotbar and it tells me what the ambient radiation looks like. In sectors populated with a lot of ships it could get pretty high but as long as the ships are intact their contribution wouldn't be enough to damage anything. Ships that are overheating or are spawned in graveyards are a different matter.

    Ship Graveyards:
    An alternative to hunting pirate bases and mining benign asteroids. The dead ships would be created like asteroids and mostly be twisted looking things made of hull, displays; Non-essential equipment. The core of these wrecks would be an unharvestable ruined core. Finding it and destroying it would have no effect on the radiation contributed by the hulk. It would only need to be there for the initial calculation when the sector is spawned. Naturally occurring asteroids should also be distributed inside graveyard sectors. They would serve as a place to hide from radiation damage for smaller ships.

    How wrecks would contribute to background radiation:
    Cosmic Background Radiation starts at 3 Kelvin while our nearest star (Sol) has a surface temperature of 5800 Kelvin. Steel melts at 1750 Kelvin which is likely where we'd see the beginning of hull damage. When the ship core overheats it's temperature in Kelvin would start someplace at the 1100 mark and skyrocket to 1500 just before meltdown. Every malfunctioning core, tho stable, could contribute more radiation to the background in excess of the sun's surface.
    • CBR = 3k
    • Overheating core adds 1100-1500k reduced by mass left of vessel and overheating cores in sector
    • Damage begins at excess of 1750k
    This means there would need to be at least two overheating cores in a sector at once to produce enough radiation to damage another passing vessel. For every 1 mass still remaining of the ship the max contribution goes down 1% and scales downward per block to .01% but also extend the life of the core 1 second each up to the server limit.

    • 1 core = 100%
    • +1 cores = 50% contribution (2 cores total for 1703k including CBR)
    • +2 cores = 25% of each
    • +3 cores = 12,5% of each
    • 5 cores = 6.25% of each
    and so on..

    Now this is with short lived cores that had no plating at all. Let's add some mass and add the Cosmic Background Radiation.

    • 1 mass = -1% (or 1501.5k max contrib)
    • 1 core with 343 mass = -7% (or 1398k max contrib)
    • 1 core with 32768 mass = -32% (or 483 max)
    and so on..

    Removing mass by salvage or manually does not decrease the meltdown timer or increase radiation. So no recalculations should be needed at any step. Once the HP is depleted the calculations of meltdown time and radioactivity contribution happen and stay static for the doomed vessel. This means that a graveyard of large derelicts with ruined cores (not overheating, so they have no timer, but still have a radiation contribution) would produce enough radiation to damage passing ships and be a great temporary hiding place for pirates hiding behind asteroids.

    Effect of Radiation on Salvage cannons:
    The radiation contribution should affect salvage speed.
    • -10% efficiency for every 1000k of radiation.
    • Stacks to a maximum of -50% (exceeding 5000k radiation, nearly solar surface temperature.)
    This makes going into ship graveyards beneficial but risky. The possibility of hidden pirates and radiation damage makes such a excursion for the prepared and brave or the foolhardy.

    TL : DR; You should bookmark this and read it later.

    Some of my math might be off. Math isn't my first language, so there you have it.

     
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    Well, you of all people must know that ship graveyards have been suggested before (not criticism) and i've supported the idea before, and i do now, this kind of thing would be awesome to find if done right. But i've not seen anyone put any thought into related game mechanics before which is interesting.

    About purely the ship graveyard part, you're suggesting that the wrecks be totally randomly generated? So not using anything from the catalog thats been smashed up? While thats a good idea to not end up with loads of similar looking wrecks, they might not be recognisable as ever having been ships, which is my only worry there.

    I do like the radiation idea, it makes sense that spaceships of the future may have radioactive materials on board, which would escape when its damaged, and it would add the kind of danger factor i feel a ship graveyard should have.
    I think that maybe a way to add some protection against radiation should be considered though, so then it can feel like you're building a ship that is specificly designed to salvage those derelicts.

    Basicly, +1 want in game :D
     

    MossyStone48

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    Share and Enjoy!

    Rounded planets were suggested a bunch of times too. It wasn't until someone bothered to really get detailed that it actually happened and I'm quite fond of the dodecahedron planets.

    Using completely random shapes on the ships will make the look twisted and distorted. Like those tentacular prominences extending from purple planets. It also means mentally prepared for the possibility you'll find no working ship components inside. If you base them off the ships in the catalog everyone will go cherry picking ships they uploaded for the part they know exist inside. As for player pirates things get interesting because they have a perfect place to ambush. Wait for some noob to salvage half a hulk then hull him and take all the loot he stashed in plexstorages.
     
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    Valiant70

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    This would be interesting, but I see the need for two more things:
    1) A way to harden ships against radiation damage, possibly an effect
    2) An explanation as to why an overheating ship core shot up by a player has no such radiation leak. Maybe there should be a pulse-like explosion when a core blows... ooh! time for another suggestion thread!
     
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    will there be another way to get something to absorb the radiation and reduce the amount in the sector or will the only way be getting rid of ships.
    I think in the future most ships will be made of some form of carbon, carbon melts at about 3500 degrees Celsius or Kelvin.
    will there be some als in the ship graveyard that are still active and work but are a damaged
     

    MossyStone48

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    Theoretically? Lol I dunno. The idea is very prelim and it seems like we're cobbling several ides together into a big pack. Something like this ends up in a proposal and delivered to the swirling ghosts cats of mt schine.
     
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    I've suggested ship graveyards to schema in the past, so that is deffinetly on my like list, the radiation mechanic is novel, interesting and doesnt sound like it would break any balance or mechanics. The radiation affecting the salvage beams plays very well into our plans for sector based BlockBehaviorConfigs, essentially, we've looked at the ability to customize the stats of ship systems based on specail effects in some sectors, so again, very possible. I hope this helps a bit more incap :D
     

    MossyStone48

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    I think comparing it to the way other games used the concept is selling what StarMade can do woefully short.

    Imagine a randomly generated by procedure hull and system of corridors buried inside the larger wrecks. Those wrecks are somewhere in the middle of a vast debris field with other hulks strewn about. You can ignore the labyrinthine wrecks with all it's tempting loots and just salvage the surrounding hulks. Doing so has the benefit of bringing the radiation down so your ship can survive longer without being forced to leave and decontaminate. Now to help with this theres gonna be some asteroids hanging around where you can shield yourself. But there might be someone hiding there already. Pirates might make use of the scrambled sensor readouts and wait for someone salvage laden craft to come looking for shelter and instead find a charged cannon. Some of the hulks will appear unsalvageable or even indestructible but are simply locked off and lootable. But getting to the loot is almost the same as going after the big wreck. And has the side effect of increasing radiation in the sector unless the hulk is removed as salvage or destroyed after being looted. Let's say you get the radiation down to a point where a ship can spend the time it takes for a boarding party to loot a wreck. Everyone disembarks and once inside the wrecked ship they have to deal with the radiation slowly taking their HP plus whatever might be lurking inside the wreckage.. Automated systems might need to be hacked, puzzles solved, bulkheads destroyed and there might be something alive, or nearly alive. And it's not happy to see you and your crew.

    TL : DR; Karos graveyard will be a cakewalk by comparison.


    Worlds Largest Cockerel
    Jus for you Innie :3
     
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    The bulk of the Karos Graveyard isn't a lot of ships. It's one ship. The Graveyard spans over kilometres of space in all 3 dimensions.

    Let that sink in.

    And yum yum, I love me some cock.
     

    MossyStone48

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    The bulk of the Karos Graveyard isn't a lot of ships. It's one ship. The Graveyard spans over kilometres of space in all 3 dimensions.

    Let that sink in.

    And yum yum, I love me some cock.
    You have to find a safe way to get from point A to point Potato and DOCK. 7 minutes.
    I refuse to let anything sink unless it fails to hold water.
     

    NeonSturm

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    Good Idea, but:

    Sometimes steel does not even need to melt to cause damage. I just needs to expand it's size due to high temperature. My Grand-parent's garden door did not open in summer quite a few times.

    Why do you receive 1500K from a ship core? thermal radiation in space is a slow process, and also (assuming it spreads equally in all directions, which is not always the case) decreases at distance.

    I know it's a game, but this makes so few sense that ... I better don't say what I think - especially in a mod's tread :D



    I think reducing salvage-efficiency is fine (could also be useful to protect planets and abandoned stations more than asteroids)

    Maybe also jam navigation or reduce shield efficiency...
     

    MossyStone48

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    The moderators don't have such thin skin.

    I choose you @fire219! AKA WikiTheKidd
    Rapid oxidation – "The next stage of core damage, beginning at approximately 1,500 K (2,240 °F), is the rapid oxidation of the Zircaloy by steam. In the oxidation process, hydrogen is produced and a large amount of heat is released. Above 1,500 K (2,240 °F), the power from oxidation exceeds that from decay heat (4,5) unless the oxidation rate is limited by the supply of either zircaloy or steam."
    In other words, the core overheats and the material it is made of melts. And in the OP I account for a range of 1100k to 1500k but use 1500k in the calculations to give a "worst case scenario".