Problem with Bobbie after newest hotfix

[skunkiferous]

I just downloaded the newest hotfix (v0.198.131/v0.198.133), and logged into my favorite server.

I wanted to add a new turret to my ship today. Unfortunately, every time I set the Bobbie to "Turret", it gets reset to "Ship", unless I do NOT activate it, in which case I have a Turret, but it will do nothing.

It does not seem to make a difference where the Bobbie is placed on the Turret, or if I close the dialog with Escape, or click on the X.

Basically, I cannot create new Turrets anymore, which is rather annoying since I am building a "large" ship right now.

I restarted the game (to desktop). I left the sector and came back. No help.

I have this issue both on a server and locally (single-player).

 

[Top 4ce]

You can use the structure tab to activate all turret AI, under rail collective, which should work.

 

[SmilingDemon]

and make sure you did actually dock them to turret docks and not rail basics or rotators

 

[Bladeriker]

I would try all of the above then if the turret is docked to the correct block type, and you tried using the ship options to activate A.I. and it still does not work report it as a Bug.

 

[SmilingDemon]

i doubt there is a bug ... i did check before i made my posting .. all 44 turrets docket to my station did fire at that poor testing pirate ^^

 

[skunkiferous]

and make sure you did actually dock them to turret docks and not rail basics or rotators

I see. Are you telling me that docking a turret to a "rail basics" disable the "turret function" on purpose, and that is considered a feature?

I don't want my turret to move: why should I be prevented from docking it on a "rail basics"? Is there some potential "game balance" issue here that is being prevented which I don't see?

If I dock my turret to a normal turret dock, but it can't physically move, because it's encased in the ship's hull, won't that cause lots of "collisions" to be computed? How could that possibly be a good thing?

EDIT:

I don't want my turrets to move because it would totally ruin the look of the ship I am building.

EDIT2:

What I would have ideally liked to do was using "moving" turrets inside the ship hull, therefore "invisible", but I'm not allowed to do that (anymore?) either, because the turrets cannot shoot through the ship hull. "Unmoving" turrets that are encased in the ship hull, on the outside, but "perfectly blend" seem the next best thing to me. Why would I not be allowed to do that? Plenty of scifi films/series have spaceships without visibly moving turrets...

EDIT3:

I worked out I could use one of those rail rotators, and make it so that it actually did not rotate. Same result; the turret function of bobbie is disabled.

 

[kiraen]

I am not understanding.
You do not want your turrets to move? Then why are you docking them at all? Just make them part of the ship and use logic to fire.
There is no point in docking a bobby turret that can't move. Since it will not be able to aim it completely defeats the purpose of the bobby.

 

[skunkiferous]

I am not understanding.

Nor do I.

You do not want your turrets to move?

Exactly.

Then why are you docking them at all? Just make them part of the ship and use logic to fire.

It wouldn't be a turret then; "logic" cannot tell if an enemy is in front of it or not. Not can it "aim".

There is no point in docking a bobby turret that can't move. Since it will not be able to aim it completely defeats the purpose of the bobby.

That is where you are wrong (unless, of course, that got broken too in some update...). A turret can still aim even if it cannot move. I once built (badly) turrets that were to big to move. It didn't bother them much; they just shot at angles if the enemy wasn't in front of them. Players can shoot at things that are not right in front of them. Turrets are actually better at this the players, as far as I could see "experimentally".

 

[HorribleHedgehog]

That's been changed. Turrets can now only fire exactly where their barrels are pointing at, only ships benefit from the 'free aim'.

 

[Top 4ce]

I see. Are you telling me that docking a turret to a "rail basics" disable the "turret function" on purpose, and that is considered a feature?

I don't want my turret to move: why should I be prevented from docking it on a "rail basics"? Is there some potential "game balance" issue here that is being prevented which I don't see?

If I dock my turret to a normal turret dock, but it can't physically move, because it's encased in the ship's hull, won't that cause lots of "collisions" to be computed? How could that possibly be a good thing?

EDIT:

I don't want my turrets to move because it would totally ruin the look of the ship I am building.

EDIT2:

What I would have ideally liked to do was using "moving" turrets inside the ship hull, therefore "invisible", but I'm not allowed to do that (anymore?) either, because the turrets cannot shoot through the ship hull. "Unmoving" turrets that are encased in the ship hull, on the outside, but "perfectly blend" seem the next best thing to me. Why would I not be allowed to do that? Plenty of scifi films/series have spaceships without visibly moving turrets...

EDIT3:

I worked out I could use one of those rail rotators, and make it so that it actually did not rotate. Same result; the turret function of bobbie is disabled.

Okay, so what you want to do is have it as a Ship AI not a Turret AI. A turret implies movement, and uses a turret dock to move. If you want dock-able weapons, that don't move, you treat it like a ship. This means set as Ship AI and again can use the Structures tab, but instead of turret AI, do docked ship AI.

 

[skunkiferous]

That's been changed. Turrets can now only fire exactly where their barrels are pointing at, only ships benefit from the 'free aim'.

I've located the "issue" to have occurred when moving v0.19556 to 0.19590.

So basically, I would have to configure the bobbies as "ships" instead, since "turrets" have been disabled on purpose. But let me guess, "docked ships" probably will never use their main weapons either, which means even as ship it probably won't shoot (or at least, that's what it looked like when I tested it).

Is there some explanation somewhere as to why the devs broke this?

I totally fail to understand why they would do that. I've spent like over a month on a new server to build this ship, based on the knowledge that this (used to) worked, and without "fixed" turrets the look would be ruined.

That's the second time now that this (devs breaking a perfectly acceptable feature that I needed) happens to me, wasting an enormous amount of my time, and I am honestly considering quitting altogether, as this whole change just seemed pointless beyond causing grieve to the current players. Shouldn't updates be about adding features, instead of removing them?!?

 

[Top 4ce]

I've located the "issue" to have occurred when moving v0.19556 to 0.19590.

So basically, I would have to configure the bobbies as "ships" instead, since "turrets" have been disabled on purpose. But let me guess, "docked ships" probably will never use their main weapons either, which means even as ship it probably won't shoot (or at least, that's what it looked like when I tested it).

Is there some explanation somewhere as to why the devs broke this?

I totally fail to understand why they would do that. I've spent like over a month on a new server to build this ship, based on the knowledge that this (used to) worked, and without "fixed" turrets the look would be ruined.

That's the second time now that this (devs breaking a perfectly acceptable feature that I needed) happens to me, wasting an enormous amount of my time, and I am honestly considering quitting altogether, as this whole change just seemed pointless beyond causing grieve to the current players. Shouldn't updates be about adding features, instead of removing them?!?

Your ship AI on dock weapons should work, but they can only shoot at something within their arc (about 45-60 degrees infront assuming nothing in the way). Again, turrets imply movement, dock does not.

 

[skunkiferous]

A turret implies movement

IMO, a turret just implies automatic targeting and firing at enemies. Something that has "movement" but no brain would be pretty useless; it's all about the independent brain IMO.

 

[Top 4ce]

IMO, a turret just implies automatic targeting and firing at enemies. Something that has "movement" but no brain would be pretty useless; it's all about the independent brain IMO.

Turret-

4 Military. a domelike, sometimes heavily armored structure, usually revolving horizontally, within which guns are mounted, as on a fortification, ship, or aircraft.

Emplacement-

Fortification. the space, platform, or the like, for a gun or battery and its accessories.

I gave you the solution, please don't lecture me about what you think a turret should be, because it has a definition.

 

[skunkiferous]

Your ship AI on dock weapons should work

This is what I tried:

1) Spawn a core. Call it "target".
2) Spawn another core, a bit away. Call it "ship". Add a rail basic on top, pointing forward.
3) Spawn a third core. Call it turret. Add a docker at the bottom, pointing forward. Add a Bobbie on top. Add an AMC on top. Add a cannon barrel in front of bobbie.
4) Dock "turret" to "ship". Both look forward. Exit "turret".
5) Activate Bobbie, setting to "Ship", and "attack target".
6) Make sure we are pointing toward "target".
7) Nothing happens. Bobbie will not fire, even if "target" is right in front of it. Why? Probably because docked ships will not use their main weapons when docked.

Did I miss something here?
[DOUBLEPOST=1464293608,1464293459][/DOUBLEPOST]

I gave you the solution, please don't lecture me about what you think a turret should be, because it has a definition.

Well, I tried your solution and it did not work for me. If you can point out what I did wrong, I would be very grateful.

 

[Top 4ce]

This is what I tried:

1) Spawn a core. Call it "target".
2) Spawn another core, a bit away. Call it "ship". Add a rail basic on top, pointing forward.
3) Spawn a third core. Call it turret. Add a docker at the bottom, pointing forward. Add a Bobbie on top. Add an AMC on top. Add a cannon barrel in front of bobbie.
4) Dock "turret" to "ship". Both look forward. Exit "turret".
5) Activate Bobbie, setting to "Ship", and "attack target".
6) Make sure we are pointing toward "target".
7) Nothing happens. Bobbie will not fire, even if "target" is right in front of it. Why? Probably because docked ships will not use their main weapons when docked.

Did I miss something here?

5) Activate Bobbie, setting to "Ship", and "attack target".
^you have to be in the ship and have the target selected for it to work.

try spawning a ship as a pirate and have the turret set as any.

 

[kiraen]

So, your problem now is that your test turret/ship/thingy is not attacking another one of your own cores?
Try changing factions and/or spawning an actual enemy.

 

[skunkiferous]

My problem now is that I would try what you two propose, if I could just work out how the spawn command works, which I have never done before. I spent the last 5 minutes googling and haven't found an actual example. For example how am I mean to know the faction "ID" of pirates?

To be more specific, I have never used any admin command, because I normally play on servers, and there I have no right to use them anyway.

 

[Top 4ce]

spawn_entity

• DESCRIPTION: Spawns a ship in any sector with a faction tag and AI tag.
• PARAMETERS: BlueprintName(String), ShipName(String), X(Integer), Y(Integer), Z(Integer), factionID(Integer), ActiveAI(True/False)
• EXAMPLE: /spawn_entity mySavedShip shipName sectorX sectorY sectorZ -1 true

or better yet:

spawn_mobs

• DESCRIPTION: Spawn AI from catalog with factionID at random places around you
• PARAMETERS: CatalogName(String), factionID(Integer), count(Integer)
• EXAMPLE: /spawn_mobs mySavedShip -1 20

pirate faction ID is -1

 

[HorribleHedgehog]

Open ship catalog, there should be a button called "mass spawn" on the upper right corner. Select a ship, set its faction ID at -1, and spawn.

Darn, ninja'd