Please revert/change thrust

[Mariux]

Right now, we have thrust that scales up similarily to shields as of recent updates (large ships accelerate slower then small ones even with the same percentage of thrusters in total mass). This is a complete nonsense as it simply defies the laws of physics. Further more, it makes very large ships almost useless because they barely can move at all. Last thing is that it completely ruins scaleability: if I want to make a 200k mass ship as fast (in acceleration) as a 20k ship, I'd have to put more thrusters for the same amount of mass leaving less room for other systems making the ship underpowered.

Now, I know some people will start shouting at me: Large ships can't be as fast as small ships blah blah blah. No. If a player wants to make a 9001 meter long formula 1 in space, then let him. Because that's how physics works. I think that large ships' were nerfed enough in maneuverability when their turning speed was changed to depend on the dimensions of the ship.

What should be done instead is players should be encouraged to make large ships slower rather then forcing it. I don't really know how, but I'd like to hear some ideas in the comments.

 

[Cybertooth]

While i generally agree with this, i have to say that as per your example, i would actually expect a large ship that was built for speed be underpowered. It makes sense to me.

 

[Zeno9141]

The current system does not enforce making big ships slow, it rather gives the options:
1) Big ship goes at fighter speed, but has limitations in other systems.
2) Big ship has a comparatively low thrust, but has a balanced array of other systems.

I do agree, however, that the current system does not follow normal physics. But do note, nearly NOTHING in this game follows normal physics. (Infinite generators, friction, the aforementioned ridiculous turning speeds, etc)

 

[Firrion]

Not sure that actual physics allows 9001 meter long formula 1 in space xD
Although, yeah, you got a point. Can't say that i mind the current mechanics much, but then again, i like making relatively small ships.
We'll get a warp drive of some sort soon, yes? Well then, how about these kinds of systems working better on larger ships? Massive carriers would start making sense in practice at least. Whereas ordinary thrusters would work better for small ships. Not much according to physics, i know, but it works according to science fiction and that's pretty much what Starmade is :p
With a system like that larger ships are prefferable for going over large distances, while small ships act faster in battles. Also make everything with a mass less than, say, 2000 (random number, don't flame me) incapable of warp.
But yeah, the current scale could also be a bit less harsh.

 

[Megacrafter127]

I agree with you there. Thrust should scale linearly(however I'd still like some implementation of grouping and boxdim in the the formula, and only the most efficient setup scales linearly).
However there still should be a softcap(emphasis on soft). Not the thrust a ship has shall be limited, instead have the thruster's energy consumption scale nonlinear.
But there also should be a cap to that scaling too, to not create a situation, in which so many generators are required to provide the energy, that a ship consisting only of thrusters and generators can still move without having to accelerate for minutes.
To calculate the required energy, I suggest using the following formula:

Spoiler: formula

e(b)=k*b*G/( 1+( G-1 )*e^( -n*G*b ) )
e is the amount of energy used by the thrusters, depending on the thruster block count.
b is the thruster block count
G (balancing) is the highest value the additional multiplier can have
k (balancing) is a fixed scaling factor
n (balancing) is a fixed variable; the greater n is, the lower is the block count required to have the additional factor "max out"

Big ship goes at fighter speed, but has limitations in other systems.

That is the case, BUT only up to a certain size. If the ship in question is ridiculously huge, and only consists of energy and thrusters in their most efficient setup, the ship has either too low energy to use the thrusters, or too low thrust to move.
the ship size I'm talking about is likely too huge to be ever built, but as long as the possibility exists, it has to be dealt with.

 

[jorgekorke]

I don't really mind the problems the big vessels are facing with the update, but what brings my hatred is that small vessels are ridiculously weak now. To build up decent acceleration for being able to dodge anyway (fighters are supposed to DODGE bullets) you have to make it around 60% of the ship's systems.
If you count the fact that to build any weapon you spend the DOUBLE space compared to before (mostly, small crafts requires the rapid fire setting [because of the power cons.]) you have no space to build anything relevant. If you make it bigger, then your turning speed is doomed.

Either they make things like they were before, or make a exponential function to make the thrusters work for keeping the big vessels slow, since they are supposed to be that way, being the vertical line the speed and the horizontal line the amount of thruster blocks. (just took an image around to give an example, do not consider those numbers)

 

[NeonSturm]

I think that a ship should be able to turn with the nose at max server speed and that the acceleration of the nose should be a percentage of ship acceleration.

Small ships should behave near big ships like they behave in the gravity field of stars.
They should move in relation to them.

To avoid glitches (a frigate near a DeathStar suffers a loss of 1 block to a fighter and now moves relative to the DeathStar instead of the universe), it should be a smooth transition.
A ship within 5x box-dim (of the big ship) distance and 10% size could fly full relative (also makes docking during flights easier).
A ship within 10x box-dim (of the big ship) distance or 20% size could fly completely independent.
Numbers are just examples.

 

[Mariux]

I think that a ship should be able to turn with the nose at max server speed and that the acceleration of the nose should be a percentage of ship acceleration.

Small ships should behave near big ships like they behave in the gravity field of stars.
They should move in relation to them.

To avoid glitches (a frigate near a DeathStar suffers a loss of 1 block to a fighter and now moves relative to the DeathStar instead of the universe), it should be a smooth transition.
A ship within 5x box-dim (of the big ship) distance and 10% size could fly full relative (also makes docking during flights easier).
A ship within 10x box-dim (of the big ship) distance or 20% size could fly completely independent.
Numbers are just examples.

Yes please. That would be really cool.

I have a much better solution for this issue. Let's make thrusters scale linearly (for exmple, 1 block gives 3 thrust no matter how many are on the ship) BUT the larger the ship the worse effects happen on large accelerations. Those effects can be screen shaking, weapon debuff, shield debuff, power regen debuff. All this would simulate the powerful thrust affecting the ship's structure

 

[dark_J]

I do agree with you and I think what should be done is larger ships would need more power to use the same amount of thrusters as a small ship .