Plead to developers.

[HorribleHedgehog]

YEa the problem is they are not on a road to realizing that great potential.They are in a loop of never ending remaking already existing features in pursuit of imagined perfection, and whenever they face some imperfection they scrap previous work and start new sub-project which they wil inevitable scrap aswell.

It is a mistake of beginning developers mentioned in " Extra credits" youtube channel in which they talk about starting indie game.
Mistake is trying to make something absolutely perfect which is imposible and makes developing gametedious and never ending cycle of correcting perceived errors.

I know shine is not exactly " beginner" but they ARE making this mistake.

Well, I disagree. Honing SM's base mechanics (namely shipbuilding and ship/fleet combat; it's safe to say these are the two things that every SM player will engage in, and what most players are attracted to) is of paramount importance if StarMade is to be succesful.

Yes, the game needs more content than that, to be sure. But at the core of it all will always be building and space battles, with the rest of the game giving you the reasons to engage in those two activities. Hence, those elements need to be in tip-top shape even before more content is added; they're arguably the basis of the SM gaming experience. They're something that should not be rushed under any circumstances.

Also, given that some very significant gameplay mechanics aren't implemented yet at all (crew being probably the most important one), I think it would be a mistake for Schine to start working on content when they're still missing important mechanics. It could lead to further complications, delays and reworks later on. Better get the mechanics down first and add content later.

 

[StormWing0]

I find it funny how people are whining about needing content and fail to remember that the game needs to code and mechanics first in order to make said content. That and every game that focused on content first without making sure it had a strong core to back it up has either failed or is bleeding to death. >.>

 

[Black_Sun]

StormWing0 I do not understand what you are trying to say here. Do you mean that we do not know that one has to develop the game in order to develop the game?

Do you know what I find funny? That a part of the community wants to shut up another part of it because they are critizising the lack of progress in development.

 

[Amadeus]

StormWing0 I do not understand what you are trying to say here. Do you mean that we do not know that one has to develop the game in order to develop the game?

Do you know what I find funny? That a part of the community wants to shut up another part of it because they are critizising the lack of progress in development.

Criticism isn't the issue, the lack of constructiveness is, however. As a player base we swing back and forth from requesting features and making the base game better with bug fixes, optimizations, and build tools/new blocks. What the devs are doing right now is so complex that they are reworking the system from the ground up. Power has been an element with conceptual issues for some time, so a new system is needed. Once a new system is planned out it becomes necessary to rework some build tools and back end optimizations to make everything work correctly. Everything is interconnected. If we look too close, sure, some may see a lack of progress. But if you look at the big picture, at the ideal game that will be advertised, these seemingly small, slow changes are incredibly necessary in order to reach that end goal.

 

[Black_Sun]

I understand what you are saying and hope you are right.

 

[pod11]

All it takes is adding (or modifying existing) resource to recept for weapons and shields.
Then making this resource only spawn in single sector of entire galaxy, and making that specific sector visible on minimap for everyone to know where it is.
Receipes, conditions to spawn resources, broadcasting on map are all already in game.

Me and many threads earlier are jsut asking to actualy do this do make players leave their bases and compete for resource in this particular gathering point.Its not som advanced complicated task to add into game.

Im learning to make games in unity3d.
Im able to do spawning objects periodically in certain poits in already existing game in about 1 hour.
Working on numbers and removing some mistakes would probably take one week tops.

Adding stupid spawner is like 5 lines of code !!!

Noone is asking for this to be perfected, or even balanced.We jsut want players to have visible gathering point and reason to fight over.
Its not some hudge task for coders to do.If it is in starmade they had already made major mistake in creating Starmade that will jeperdize entire project.

I cant think of any real reason to not dedicate even 1 month of work over last 3 years for something so highly requested other than simple STUBBORNESS and MALICE from game devs.

 

[sayerulz]

Highly requested by who? That sounds like an absolutely terrible idea, that one spot would just have someones homebase with an eight-quadrillion block missile/beam sitting on it. You are doing nothing but shouting out your uninformed opinions that have nothing to do with reality, probably just to get attention. Can someone lock this moronic troll thread?

 

[nightrune]

Then making this resource only spawn in single sector of entire galaxy, and making that specific sector visible on minimap for everyone to know where it is.
Receipes, conditions to spawn resources, broadcasting on map are all already in game.

Me and many threads earlier are jsut asking to actualy do this do make players leave their bases and compete for resource in this particular gathering point

If it was that simple in Starmade we would have done it a long time ago. Development is based on known dependencies. While I can't say how and in what way. The universe update aims to address these concerns in a very starmade way. It's taking a bit of planning though.

 

[therimmer96]

The thing we all have to remember about schine is that they're still a new company, going at this for the first time. Mistakes are going to be made, things are going to take longer than the time another team might be able to do it in. If you didn't understand this when you bought into the game, then you only have yourself to blame.

I've not been the biggest fan of schine over the years, but this type of criticism was valid 2/3 years ago, when nothing was happening, rather than now, when they're clearly on the right track.

If schine gets bored of dev blogs and starts stalling again, start bitching. But right now, things are looking good, if not a bit slow

 

[Black_Sun]

I am tired of arguing so this is the last time I am going to write something into this topic.

therimmer96
First, since when do we have to take the age of a company into account once we buy their game? Are you for example saying that everyone who bought No Mans Sky has only themselves to blame?

Also since when are we allowed to "bitch" once devblogs are stopping? I am sure I can critize development whenever I and many others see issues wrongly treated. We surely do not need to use this as a preferance.

Besides, if they are clearly on the right track is debatable, as indicated in this thread and many similare ones.

Edit: Just want to throw this in here. Most other problems are minor anyway, so there is mostly no reason to critizise anything at all. This also makes this discussion pretty unnecessary... Which is also the reason why I never wrote anything in this forum the past years.

 

[Matt_Bradock]

Are you for example saying that everyone who bought No Mans Sky has only themselves to blame?

If he doesn't say that, I do. Yes. They have themselves to blame, ESPECIALLY if they pre-order based solely on the hype. I always wait until there are trustworthy reviews out on a game by critics, and actual gameplay, or a demo I personally can try, before I buy. Schine plays with their hand open, you can try the game without paying for it - which is more than most triple-A studios give for your money before release. Which is why I could play it, decide it's worth the money, and buy it. And I stand by that choice, because I already played this game more than any other (maybe except League of Legends or Neverwinter Nights) in my life. I already got its worth out of it. Anything that improves it, is a bonus. That said, Schine makes mistakes, and they are seen. By me, too. But unless you have CONSTRUCTIVE feedback, don't bother posting please.

 

[therimmer96]

First, since when do we have to take the age of a company into account once we buy their game? Are you for example saying that everyone who bought No Mans Sky has only themselves to blame?

Yes

Why pre-order something from a company with zero reputation? Pre-orders made sense when there was limited physical stock, but now? Not so much. Wait for reviews. People who blindly give money to someone with no reputation for delivering what they promise are silly. If a company is new and hasn't shown something, why put money in them?

Also since when are we allowed to "bitch" once devblogs are stopping? I am sure I can critize development whenever I and many others see issues wrongly treated. We surely do not need to use this as a preferance.

I use devblogs as an example, as it has been my personal grievance with schine in the past.

Besides, if they are clearly on the right track is debatable, as indicated in this thread and many similare ones.

They're on the right track. They're clearly putting actual thought and planning into the design of the game, they're trying to communicate that as well as possible. They're bringing on staff that do the job well, rather than off loading the work to friends.

Schine is far from perfect, I have many problems with how they work. But they're heading in the right direction, which means they're finally listening to the community rather than assuming we're just a bunch of noisy arseholes trying to ruin their fun. Bitching about them reworking systems that need reworking to improve the game is pointless, especially when there's better issues to bitch about.

 

[Black_Sun]

Yes

Why pre-order something from a company with zero reputation? Pre-orders made sense when there was limited physical stock, but now? Not so much. Wait for reviews. People who blindly give money to someone with no reputation for delivering what they promise are silly. If a company is new and hasn't shown something, why put money in them?

If he doesn't say that, I do. Yes. They have themselves to blame, ESPECIALLY if they pre-order based solely on the hype. I always wait until there are trustworthy reviews out on a game by critics, and actual gameplay, or a demo I personally can try, before I buy. Schine plays with their hand open, you can try the game without paying for it - which is more than most triple-A studios give for your money before release. Which is why I could play it, decide it's worth the money, and buy it. And I stand by that choice, because I already played this game more than any other (maybe except League of Legends or Neverwinter Nights) in my life. I already got its worth out of it. Anything that improves it, is a bonus. That said, Schine makes mistakes, and they are seen. By me, too.

You are both right. I did not see the problem from this point of view.

They're on the right track. They're clearly putting actual thought and planning into the design of the game, they're trying to communicate that as well as possible. They're bringing on staff that do the job well, rather than off loading the work to friends.

Schine is far from perfect, I have many problems with how they work. But they're heading in the right direction, which means they're finally listening to the community rather than assuming we're just a bunch of noisy arseholes trying to ruin their fun. Bitching about them reworking systems that need reworking to improve the game is pointless, especially when there's better issues to bitch about.

But unless you have CONSTRUCTIVE feedback, don't bother posting please.

Well that is still debatable. I for example do not agree with the prioritisation of bug and feature development in the development of this game. But as I already said, those are minor problems and therefore are not realy worth a discussion.

As to giving constructive feedback and not posting if none is given. There is already a lot of constructive critizism given by other people on this forum. Schine just seems to more or less ignore them.
Something I personally have a problem with, is the way the game opens up to new players. After years of development, instead of showing people what is possible within the game by simply spawning them inside a station or planet, you are still spawned in the middle of nowhere infront of one of thos giant metal sticks. This has been adressed by other people together with solutions for years now. Still no development. So writing something about problems again and again and reminding Schine of them is still a valid way of criticizing the game.

 

[Deserea]

All it takes is adding (or modifying existing) resource to recept for weapons and shields.
Then making this resource only spawn in single sector of entire galaxy, and making that specific sector visible on minimap for everyone to know where it is.
Receipes, conditions to spawn resources, broadcasting on map are all already in game.

Me and many threads earlier are jsut asking to actualy do this do make players leave their bases and compete for resource in this particular gathering point.Its not som advanced complicated task to add into game.

Im learning to make games in unity3d.
Im able to do spawning objects periodically in certain poits in already existing game in about 1 hour.
Working on numbers and removing some mistakes would probably take one week tops.

Adding stupid spawner is like 5 lines of code !!!

Noone is asking for this to be perfected, or even balanced.We jsut want players to have visible gathering point and reason to fight over.
Its not some hudge task for coders to do.If it is in starmade they had already made major mistake in creating Starmade that will jeperdize entire project.

I cant think of any real reason to not dedicate even 1 month of work over last 3 years for something so highly requested other than simple STUBBORNESS and MALICE from game devs.

That just sounds god awful as a game play mechanic, no way in hell would i want to play in a game that would be so troll friendly as that would be.

You want to compete and leave home bases fine, but the people like myself, who like to play by themselves, even in an online environment need to be able to actually play the game without having to join a faction, much like in minecraft.

Otherwise, you are just being really rude.Im sure as hell if it was so easy to do in this game they would have already...and it looks like a dev agrees with that sentiment.

 

[therimmer96]

Something I personally have a problem with, is the way the game opens up to new players. After years of development, instead of showing people what is possible within the game by simply spawning them inside a station or planet, you are still spawned in the middle of nowhere infront of one of thos giant metal sticks. This has been adressed by other people together with solutions for years now. Still no development. So writing something about problems again and again and reminding Schine of them is still a valid way of criticizing the game.

You're aware they have a big spawn station in the works right? It's pretty much done, they're just waiting for NPC update to add it, so that it can be used to teach players mechanics through NPCs. They've been working on it for a while.

 

[Black_Sun]

You're aware they have a big spawn station in the works right? It's pretty much done, they're just waiting for NPC update to add it, so that it can be used to teach players mechanics through NPCs. They've been working on it for a while.

Yes I am aware of that. Them working on it for "a while" is quit an understatement. In fact they have been working on it for about two years. Given that the first time it was shown was at the Twitch Con in 2015. Yet it still is not in the game. Why? Because they want to implement NPC crew first. Which in turn is also a feature which was teased two years ago by one of the dev team members and than set back in development to something the Schine team likes to call "soon". Which has lost all of its meaning as time went by.

So here we are, still infront of a giant metal pipe in the middle of nowhere and no changes in sight.

Edit: I see your point now, you are right. There has been a reaction from the Dev team for this issue. The only problem is that there is no actual progress anymore. Which in turn leads us back to the beginning of this discussion. Also this was only an example.

 

[jayman38]

You're aware they have a big spawn station in the works right? It's pretty much done, they're just waiting for NPC update to add it, so that it can be used to teach players mechanics through NPCs. They've been working on it for a while.

The tutorial station looks great and would be awesome... If the NPCs didn't fall out the bottom before it rezzed in.

 

[Lancake]

There is already a lot of constructive critizism given by other people on this forum. Schine just seems to more or less ignore them.

... I can't speak about everyone in Schine, but plenty of us read the forums and acknowledge what is being said. We talk about issues that are brought up, we work solutions out if needed, we adjust our own ideas where we can...

Perhaps you're not seeing as much posts from Schine within those threads as you would like, but that's probably because after all those years, it's more apparent to us that every reply from a Schine member gets twisted in such a way that it would be better to just not reply at all. Reading and not replying is also just the faster way of processing information too, the more time we spend on the forums, the less time is spend on making the actual game.

To go back on topic:
I read the author's post, and I read any of those that followed. I see from where people are coming and plenty of its a valid concern. I'm happy to report that any of those concerns are already known by us, and thus has influenced our current and future plans.

---

You probably didn't mean it like that, but whenever I see a comment like that, or someone writing in a condescending manner (which you didn't) it just... disappoints me. Little anger still arises after reading community posts for such a long time... yet there's always this feeling of disappointment where I just don't know what we're doing wrong or how people even see us (Are we gods? demons? corporate members that look to make a quick buck?). It brings up the question why I even bother replying at all as no matter what I seem to do, something 'bad' always follows.


PS: Every time you write "Schine", replace it with the Schine member you like the most and see if that sentence is still worth mentioning considering the time that person spent into the community, and making StarMade what it is now. We'll see it as targeted towards ourselves personally and we can simply just not read it if we don't like the attitude (you want people to read it, right?).

PSPS: I spent like half an hour on this post when I should have been testing the most recent Dev build

 

[pod11]

... I can't speak about everyone in Schine, but plenty of us read the forums and acknowledge what is being said. We talk about issues that are brought up, we work solutions out if needed, we adjust our own ideas where we can...

Perhaps you're not seeing as much posts from Schine within those threads as you would like, but that's probably because after all those years, it's more apparent to us that every reply from a Schine member gets twisted in such a way that it would be better to just not reply at all. Reading and not replying is also just the faster way of processing information too, the more time we spend on the forums, the less time is spend on making the actual game.

To go back on topic:
I read the author's post, and I read any of those that followed. I see from where people are coming and plenty of its a valid concern. I'm happy to report that any of those concerns are already known by us, and thus has influenced our current and future plans.

---

You probably didn't mean it like that, but whenever I see a comment like that, or someone writing in a condescending manner (which you didn't) it just... disappoints me. Little anger still arises after reading community posts for such a long time... yet there's always this feeling of disappointment where I just don't know what we're doing wrong or how people even see us (Are we gods? demons? corporate members that look to make a quick buck?). It brings up the question why I even bother replying at all as no matter what I seem to do, something 'bad' always follows.


PS: Every time you write "Schine", replace it with the Schine member you like the most and see if that sentence is still worth mentioning considering the time that person spent into the community, and making StarMade what it is now. We'll see it as targeted towards ourselves personally and we can simply just not read it if we don't like the attitude (you want people to read it, right?).

PSPS: I spent like half an hour on this post when I should have been testing the most recent Dev build

I think highly of devs of this game and entire project itself.
I have not been playing game much for reasons listed in thread ,yet i care enough to regularly check news and progress years after testing it out- that in itself sais much about my high expectations for it.

 

[Comradecolonel]

The team isn't perfect but the intent to make a great game is there. Lessons have been learned over time and I think Schine has the skill to execute. The path ahead is still long but I can see Starmade becoming a better game. I'm seriously tired of seeing the pnly discussion being these repetitive threads. How many times are we going to tell the devs that they are doing it wrong? Let's be a little more positive.