New Recipes a Step in the Right Direction. But... [Maths!]

[Ciber]

... it's too random and I think everyone can agree with me on that.

My first proposal is that we rename Recipes to "Blueprints", cause Recipes seems kind of primitive for this game and Blueprints is easier to spell while also fitting in with the idea of factories better.


My second and most important proposal is that we merge the new and old manufacturing systems. Sure the new entirely random one has its benifits, but may people prefered the days when they could know what materials they would need or what other people might want to buy before hand. As such, I say that we go back to the old system of fixed recipes but also keep the new system where you buy them from a store. In addition, we can make it so that while the Types of items needed are constant, the Amount of said items changes with each purchase.

The meat of this proposal is the method by which new recipes should be generated. As previously mentioned they should always require the same types of items, but in differing quantities. In addition, particularly good or bad recipies should be less common that average ones and the best/worst of them should be even rarer. As such I have come up with the following maths.

[Math Begins]

When generating a new recipe, for every item in that recipe choose a random floating point number -1

 

[ColeDragoth]

IMO the new recipe system is neat and a good step BUT the completly random idea is bonkers. It\'s too weird finding a recipe that takes 5 sand and turns it into a salvaging cannon, and another recipe to make a red memory it taks four L4 ore + two L5 ore + three L2 ore!!!! Thats like 1 million credits to make 1 chip that costs 300 credits in the store...I thought factories where a method of creating hard to get items for less? Anyways I agree to your post, recipes should have set items to create it with variation in min/max to produce the item; that should be the difference between a good and bad recipe!

EXAMPLE:

(1/2 the material cost) Best Recipe: Red CPU = L1 ore x2 + L2 ore x1 + Red Paint x1

(x1 material cost) Normal Recipe: Red CPU = L1 ore x4 + L2 ore x2 + Red Paint x2

(x2 material cost) Worst Recipe: Red CPU = L1 ore x8 + L2 ore x4 + Red Paint x4

The normal recipe ingrediant cost should equal the value of the item being created. For example, the recipe about L1 ore x4 = 40 + L2 ore x2 = 200 + Red Paint x2 = 300 so the Red CPU regular price should be 540 credits.

No recipe should use ore that is L3 or higher since the items created are so cheap in the first place! (Other than faction cubes maybe) UNLESS he makes better versions of anti-matter cannons or other items already in the game, those should use L3 ore or above.



Also I believe the material press fine and didn\'t need to be removed.

 

[Morhe]

You can\'t name the recipes \"Blueprints\" because \"Blueprints\" are already a system in the game for saving ship designs. It\'s generally a bad idea to name two systems in the same game with the same name, as it confuses new players.

As far as making recipes fixed: I feel that the current method, where any item that can be purchased from a shop may be selected as an ingredient for any item that can be produced in a factory, is somewhat flawed because it means the theoretical minimum cost for a product is the same regardless of the value or usefulness of that item. However, I don\'t feel going back to fixed recipes is necessary either.

I would propose a system where items fall into tiers:

• Tier 1: Raw Materials
  Raw materials includes items such as sand, soil, rock, plant sprites, and processed ore.
• Tier 2: Parts
  Parts include all the non-plant sprite-based items such as proteins, paints, and electrical components, as well as hull, lights, and other decorative blocks.
• Tier 3: Modules
  Modules are PlexDoors, docking modules and enhancers, all controller blocks, and all blocks with a grouping bonus mechanic.

When choosing the components for a particular recipe, the game looks at the tier of the item the recipe will produce.

• If the item is tier 1, it picks two items from tier 1.
• If the item is tier 2, it picks one item from tier 1, and two items from tier 1 or 2.
• If the item is tier 3, it selects one tier 2 item and two items from tiers 1, 2, or 3.
  
  The amount of each item needed for the recipe is then randomized.

Thus, the more complicated blocks will always require intermediate steps and are more likely to require components.

 

[Ciber]

I did not remember that blueprints was allready used cause I have been playing on a server where they are disabled since I started. Sorry.

Anyway, I like you idea too. The main part of my idea that I want is the maths part.

 

[Solar]

I agree to the present system being less random and a mesh between the two.

The idea of being able to link the previous system was fun, but the random nature of the current and cost to make a block is too high.

If I recall, the intent was to also reduce items/code. In that case, different base items could turn into the same part to be used in a formula: tall grass and grass flowers for example could both turn into protein 40000a perhaps, giving more variety to what items you are able to farm to make an item and cutting down on the number of tier 2 parts, since there are still plenty of dual (or even triple) item combinations that could be implemented.

 

[Ciber]

I see no reason to give up all of these recipes now that we have the nifty new recipe buying system. Plus, if we keep all the origanal recipies then we could have a machine that manufactures new recipes at say a speed of one per minute and you need to have 100X the average cost of said recipe.

 

[BlackZero500]

Sounds not bad, but then the blueprints are predictable again. Thats exactly the point that schema wanted to change if i got this correctly. And i think its cool to have some really good and some pretty bad recipes. And i dont think Blueprint should be used on that cause it could cause some missunderstandings with the Ship-Blueprints.

 

[Ciber]

Well ofc some recipes will be good and some bed, but I have not yet met one person who likes not being able to plan at all. Say I set down on an ice world. I probably want to have a set of blocks that I Know I will be able to make without getting outside resources.

The system of recipes as items solves the problem of the tech tree being overly complicated and annoying to memorize, and if we keep it so that recipes for the same block are generally the same with just a bit of variance then we get the benifits of both systems!

 

[ColeDragoth]

Memorizing recipes was bad and the new recipe system is awesome I just dont like how randomized it is. Keep the recipe items just make them more in line to my above post. We can all benefit from both systems. As it is now though making a salavaging cannon out of juts sand seems ridiculous...IMO I see a salvaging laser costing at least one of each green computer chip items and a ore or two. then find varitions of amount needed to create it. ot completely random crazyness. With set recipes that have variations only in amount you can have normal recipes cost the value of the item and good versions of the recipe save lots of money and materials, where as the bad recipes cost more.

 

[Archer6621]

You can get a recipe that allows you to combine 2 normal hull pieces for 1 faction module.

Disabling the recipe for normal hull pieces is not really an option, because that would also remove the possibility to craft normal hull pieces... Likewise for the faction module... It would work from both sides, kinda limiting the game.

Now where did I see this before... Ah yes! no separate buy/selling prices, resulting in the same issue! Adjusting prices will have 2 effects instead of 1, just like with recipes.

So players end up making a fortune, because of complete randomness that cannot be altered..



There are probably much better examples.. But I was kinda happy with the previous system where we had some more control over what people could produce or not..

 

[Kaamio]

I got a recipe that takes about 12 cheap items (ice crags, rock and tall grass I think it was) to create plextanium L5, as a drop from pirate base. I also got a recipe for grassy rock planet terrain that takes 4 L5, 3 L4, 5 L3 and some L1 minerals... I guess it averages nicely



I would\'ve suggested some sort of \"efficiency\" stat for the recipes, for example creating 1 product / 5 input materials, either randomised, static or upgradeable stat.... but seeing as recipe levels have just been implemented I doubt there\'s going to be a rewamp anytime soon.



Some sort of possible material list for the recipes would be nice though, as anything taking L4 or L5 minerals is completely useless due to cost. I\'d say L3 and hardened hulls are pretty useless in recipes as well...

 

[Tomino_sama]

Gotta Catch\'em All

Looks like you will end up collecting/farming recipes lists until you get ones that are really cheap on costs. Not such a bad Meta. If players can trade these items, it create the possibility finding of High Value \"God\" Recipes.

If that is how it works that\'s great. All these example of High cost Hull Recipes are extreme low grade. Some limits could be imposed, but how easy should it be to get a nice recipe that churns out Hull\'s like no tomorrow?

 

[Kaamio]

Well... yeah, it\'s not a bad idea in general but one shouldn\'t really be worried about hulls, it\'s something used in hundreds of thousands assuming total coverage of a capital ship. I could see even a multiplier on hull recipes, up to 3x regular output because they are used in bulk more so than other modules, assuming people use them at all.



Basically you can get ridiculous recipes that make any semblance of economy completely meaningless, while not getting basic stuff like hulls with any reasonable materials that can be massed in numbers they are needed. making money is potentially a lot easier than before, but money is still useless unless you \"exploit\" blueprints because shops have tiny stocks in general. Trade guild helps now, but it\'s still a hassle to go on a 5 shop trip to get half of the modules you end up needing.

Still, I could see this system getting refined towards working model so it\'s not all bad even if I do sounds like I just keep on bitching. All it really needs is some logic and limitations to it\'s randomness and we might have a winner. Not that I mind making black hulls out of 4 cans of yellow paint and nothing else (it\'s about as tough as paint without wall anyway) but it is a bit silly

 

[Ciber]

With my system the majority of recipes would be decidedly average with the likelyhood of getting a good or bad recipe decreasing such that you might have only one in a thousand be a really good/bad one, but maybe 1/100 are pretty good.

If we also adopt my idea of set recipes with flexible amounts then we could make it so you craft the recipe item by crafting all of the ingredients*100 together.

 

[VariousArtist]

As always: Its still alpha! Just give him time to fine-tune and balance the new system. The randomized system is neat and adds good gameplay to a server. You will understand when you see the overhauls to world generation and ressource distribution.

 

[Ciber]

I still say that having an Element of randomness is fine and even benificial, but the entire system should not be Based on randomness.

 

[VariousArtist]

Thats what I said - fine-tuning will come when the core system works.

 

[Kaamio]

Is this a placeholder system in place atm? I just realised that different level minerals have no reason to exist or have values different from each other as mineral separator has been removed, similarly I don\'t *think* the former particle press borne parts have any particular use as recipes are random. They are basically clutter and pointless waste of space until you happen across a recipe that randomly decides it requires them.



Basically why is L5 mineral valuable as it\'s potentially just as useful (useless) as any other variants? Ah well, I guess there\'s not much to do except wait and see.