Muting players

[War Dog]

I'm afraid I cannot agree with your method of enforcing order. Your methods work for you, on your server where you are free to do as you please. Let us have the option do the same.

All we ask is that there is an option.

 

[Tomino_sama]

I'm afraid I cannot agree with your method of enforcing order. Your methods work for you, on your server where you are free to do as you please. Let us have the option do the same.

All we ask is that there is an option.

so that abusive players you don't like keep donating to your server costs without anybody having to actually deal with it? sounds like bad management.

Ignore the problem it will just go away. If you don't mind people leaving, go ahead and ignore your players. Lazy admins will misuse this option ;D

Servers cost money. Servers have limited slots. Players donate. They care. The ones that don't care will never donate. It's about cutting the fat. Nobody has raised a real reason why muting or ignoring is a good idea.

TOO LONG DIDN'T READ​

You need to treat your players with the equal respect that you wish to receive. If Admin is too hard or players are annoying, which are the two reasons for ignoring in chat, then maybe you need more admins that are better equipped to deal with these social issues.

 

[War Dog]

If management is bad, it's their own server that will suffer. Having different standards does not necessarily equal laziness. Please don't imply that those who want this option are incompetent.

 

[Tomino_sama]

If management is bad, it's their own server that will suffer. Having different standards does not necessarily equal laziness. Please don't imply that those who want this option are incompetent.

it is not incompetent, it is needessly soft. please do not insinuate where i have not. You could argue I am saying it is neglegent on the part of the admins, to not ban those not following the rules, but that should be taken as read on any server for any community. read the terms on this forum for a sample of what is accepted as "the norm"

 

[War Dog]

please do not insinuate where i have not.

Learn to admin.
Get more admins. Thats what you should be doing already.
A decent Admin team...

Yeah I'm not seeing that.

In any case, let servers work out their own issues their own way. If they want to be needlessly soft then let them, if they do end up suffering that's their own fault.

Again, in the end all we ask is that the option is there.

 

[Tomino_sama]

Yeah I'm not seeing that.

In any case, let servers work out their own issues their own way. If they want to be needlessly soft then let them, if they do end up suffering that's their own fault.

Again, in the end all we ask is that the option is there.

Sure. It is their choice whether server owners ignore their own players. That is something we will never do here. People say a lot around here, so I try to respond where I'm directly called out. It can be difficult to get to everybody, but I do try. We have a great team which is always expanding to cope with increases in our playerbase. To be honest, you might have to expect a lot more players soon and I hope everybody has actually planned for that. We have over 20 admins at present and we are bringing in another 10 soon.

Like i say if you have ten players then it's a non-issue. If you have a thousand or more, you might find it exhausting ignoring all those players that "don't listen to reason".

again. that is why ban exists. it's up to the admins how they use it.

personally we need moderator class for certain commands.

If the ignore was to be done, it should not be server wide. You should never be able to silence someone like that. If players were allowed to /mute playername then that would be acceptable.

Just because an admin wants to mute someone does not mean that everyone agrees with that. Admins do not always know best and that can be abused too easily.

If you must have this, it is a player set preference only please.

 

[War Dog]

If we mute someone, is that not the exact opposite of ignoring them? They acted out of turn and were punished as a result. It's simply that the punishment is not as harsh as a kick or a ban.

Kicking, Banning Muting, they're just tools for an administrator's usage. Hell I could argue that kicking is an utter waste of time since they can just reconnect but the option is there isn't it? If you remove the option to mute someone because "admins don't always know what's best and everyone doesn't always agree" then why give them the kick/ban capability as well? I mean, kicking and banning mutes them as side effect doesn't it?

I certainly agree that we need some sort of "rank" system. You either are a regular player or a godlike entity; there's no in between for us.

 

[Tomino_sama]

Hell I could argue that kicking is an utter waste of time since they can just reconnect but the option is there isn't it?

a kick is a wake up call. nothing more than a warning to server that if the behaviour continues a temporary ban is likely. This systems works well on all forums and videogames to date.

The difference is I only agree with this as a player chat ignore list/filter option. I cannot support this as an Admin Command. It too convenient to silence someone from the entire server. You clearly have never experience admin abuse. These things are a two way street.

Out of 1500 registered pilots we have 4 pilots on our IP ban list. ...two of them are the same guy.
Maybe I am doing this all wrong? ;D

 

[War Dog]

Oh, I've seen plenty of admin abuse, but they usually go for the ban/kick/delete/emptymoney/teleportintosun/teleportabajillionsectorsaway/spawntonsofpirates option instead of muting.

Or maybe join your faction and plant disintegrators on your ships when no one's looking? Drain away your credits $1000 at a time so you practically never notice. Unprotect your base by removing your faction core? Secretly set you as enemies with another faction? Kick some of your members? Give another player in your faction founder status? Give myself founder status in your faction and screw with the permissions? Delete your undocked ships when no one's looking and blame it on pirates?

There's a ton of ways I can screw with you secretly without anyone ever knowing.

That being said, my preferred punishment is teleporting someone 1,000 sectors away, giving him a core, and saying "Have a nice day.".

If you expect admin abuse then why not remove everything? They can all be abused.

 

[ToyotaSupra]

I don't see why Tomino_sama is disagreeing so much with this. You bring up some good points, but you can't just constantly ban and ban and ban. Sometimes you need a warning, if some kid just doesn't know (there are people like this) how loud he is, then the admin can mute him for a sec and tell him to chill. Or turn the volume down. What is he is a genuinely good player, just needs muting?

Admin abuse will always be a thing no matter what.

 

[Majorfatboy]

Tomino, if that's how you run Your server, then I guarantee You that the only reason you still have any players left is not because it's a good server, but because Your players are sticking around because of the Mushroom Fleet name and notoriety. You spew videos near-daily, who's only saving grace is that no one else pays enough attention to this developing game to give You any competition A/V wise, have QnA's with the dev, and have taken the old-as-time-itself position of dev-shil. People play on your server just so they can say "I play on Mushroom Fleet", Nothing more.
I guarantee You that if Yours was a normal server, without the constant flow of videos and notoriety, You would be hemorrhaging players under Your way of administration.
I've seen it happen on other servers. My x-favorite, actually. The server was great, then ownership/admin changed hands. The new admin, as was slowly revealed, was a complete militaristic wingnut who whipped out top punishment onto any player for anything. I was never targeted because I was on friendly terms with them, but I sadly watched as what was looking like the most promising server out there became the admin group's whipping boy. We went from 20+ players on at a time and climbing within the first month of the server, to one-to-zero players on, because no sensible person is going to put up with Il Duce running a video game server. Even I silently fled.

You can operate under rules of black-and-white on your server, Tomino, but Myself and plenty of other players prefer admins who can see in shades of grey.

 

[therimmer96]

Tomino_sama you may not see the benefit, but that doesn't mean that others do not. This isnt your game, and it isn't down to you to determine what should and shouldn't be added. The community is clearly against you in this one, so be the bigger man, and say "I don't see your point, but that doesn't invalidate it". More tools for server admin is always a good thing, if you dont like it, grow up and just ignore it.

 

[Eelviny]

I think enough points have been raised already, so I'll be blunt on my thread.

This is a thread about a feature. I did NOT come here for others to tell me how to run my server. I have methods that work for me and my staff, and that is my decision to make.

So, please, keep the hate out of it, and stick to the topic at hand.

 

[therimmer96]

Bumping because a need just arised for this feature while I was admining elwyn

I have 2 players, Jim and Bob. Jim and Bob are siblings, in the same house sharing an internet connection. Bob spams, gets IP banned. neither players can play anymore. Is this fair on Jim?

Nope. Muting would solve this.

 

[aceface]

A decent Admin team would kick any player for all the infractions described. Try coming to our Ivory Tower before making assumptions about how we run things. All the players that come here complain about weak and lax admins at the previous homes. Hey we love getting new players so no worries from us, but I like to try to improve the game if i can not make it a worse place for new players. thanks.



Muting is acceptable in a voice server. Not on the game server. It doesn't solve anything. That has nothing to do with credibility. We take our "problem players" to one side and many have "reformed" and become "valuable members of the community".

If anyone:
* Spams
* abuses players
* uses a chatbot
* all listed above

That = Ban.

it's basic moderation. If you will ban for griefing and we all agree this is a more serious offense then I ask you why would you not?

pls unban from mushroomfleet?

 

[aceface]

Bumping because a need just arised for this feature while I was admining elwyn

I have 2 players, Jim and Bob. Jim and Bob are siblings, in the same house sharing an internet connection. Bob spams, gets IP banned. neither players can play anymore. Is this fair on Jim?

Nope. Muting would solve this.

*llama06 and Aceface :D

 

[I_is_Tinsy]

Tomino_sama The punishment should fit the crime. You spam-buying lag bombs? No more credits. Griefing other players' stuff? Teleport a thousand sectors away. Abusing chat? Mute. Causing all kinds of problems on the server altogether? That's when you ban, not for something like leaving your old ships laying around spawn.

 

[Izikiel]

For my opinion, I feel having more options allows more flexibility, which allows you to deal with a larger variety of situations much more easily.

 

[gravypod]

Preamble​

The following statements are from the ElwynEternity staff, and while these statements are fully endorsed by ElwynEternity, they do not reflect the entities' current official stance on the issue.

Gravy's Message​

TLDR people who have no respect deserve to be banned.

This is the first thing you are incorrect about. Not all servers are your server; owning and running a gaming community is not black and white: its all of the gray in between. At ElwynEternity, I try and earn the respect of my players by fixing problems and providing a quality experience.

promoting ignorance in the community is not advisable

I see no way how this is "promoting ignorance". Asking for a feature, that is currently implemented in almost every chat program, is not promoting ignorance.

Permaban is by IP and starmade account.
Ban is temporary
Kick is a wake up call
Change_sector 1000 1000 1000 can actually help a lot
you could try actually taking some time to do speak with these players as often they are feeling ignored which causes thie kind of behaviour.

Treat the Symptoms?

or Cure the Cause?

Again, this is not the way everyone wants to run a server. I for one feel that I should empower the players to have whatever interpersonal relations they choose; I set no bounds for them, they set bounds for themselves and fix their own problems.

I can't be an advocate of any anti-social tools / lazy admin commands. Which is what any "player_ignore" is.
If you ignore them they will eventually leave. So why not kick / ban in the first place.

In my experience, a jail-like system is the only true fix for my servers. If you ban a user, they will attempt to circumvent it. If you take the fun out of the game for the problem user, they will leave on their own accord and will not come back.

decent Admin team would kick any player for all the infractions described. Try coming to our Ivory Tower before making assumptions about how we run things.

If your Ivory Tower is maintained like this, it is no surprise that you have dropped from rank 3 to rank 10 on the server-list. I've seen bricks fall slower.

Muting is acceptable in a voice server. Not on the game server. It doesn't solve anything.

Have you ever heard of a small game called minecraft? Many servers for it utilize a similar mute/jail system to administrate. Does that condemn them from being labeled as well maintained? Does that make their servers inherently bad because they don't ban their playerbase as soon as they do something wrong?

If Admin is too hard or players are annoying, which are the two reasons for ignoring in chat, then maybe you need more admins that are better equipped to deal with these social issues.

This is not only an admin level issue, if players dislike the hate-speech or ideals of other players does it mean they have no choice but to be exposed to it?

We have over 20 admins at present and we are bringing in another 10 soon.

You have an average player count of ~30 players... so about more than half of your players are mods?

 

[x2006charger]

To add on to Gravy's statement: Banning a player should be used only for extreme cases. Having the option to ignore would allow an extra layer of warning to get them to shape up or get out. Banning a player for chat spam is overkill. I've run a minecraft server before, and you'd be amazed how many people shape up after being /muted for a few minutes. It makes them rethink their actions, and saves you from having to ban them.

You may not like the idea, but that's your opinion. Having the option doesn't mean that you have to use it. If you want to stick with the black and white ban on any rulebreaking, more power to you. I'm sure people will love a server like that. Those of us that want to keep our players would like more options than just a banhammer.

Also, /ignore or /mute =/= laziness tools.