Moving the Core

[Achriel]

I'm sure (but I can't find it) that someone has put forward once again... please, oh please.. let me move the core *insert begging posture here*.

I know the guys at LazyGamers.org are working hard on updating SMEdit to allow it to work once again with the latest version but really, moving the core should be possible. I can't even tell you how many times I've made a tiny miscalculation that I've had to 'work around' because of core placement.

I'd like to suggest the possibility of moving a core by placing a new core in build mode. However to prevent abuse I say there should be a 10-20 seconds pause where nothing 'changes' in the ships blueprint to allow the move to complete (any change results in a 'failure to relocate core').

Anyone have a better idea?

 

[Viridis00]

Last Q&A, we were told that just moving it or placing another one won't work because the core is basically a reference point for the entire entity. The devs want to make a standalone tool to move cores around, but in game it might not be possible.

I think everyone in Star Made sympathizes on the core block issue though. A recent ship I made had my core block offset by 1 space, and I pretty much had to move the whole ship around it. It was a huge pain in the ass. Luckily it was a 30m ship. I feel bad for the guys who commonly build massive capital ships and make the mistake.

 

[Achriel]

Last Q&A, we were told that just moving it or placing another one won't work because the core is basically a reference point for the entire entity. The devs want to make a standalone tool to move cores around, but in game it might not be possible.

I'm not entirely sure Shakespeare wrote a greater tragedy, but I thank you for the information. I suppose it's just not a priority at this point but even as a reference point one could make an entirely new vessel. On a happy note it's good to see that 3rd party editing tools will have a place in StarMade as obvious deficiencies are left to outside coders.

 

[psteiner]

Then make it possible to place multiple cores, not to be able to fly the thing with multiple cores, and possible to delete cores once there is multiple.

 

[0ldSkull]

No arbitrary timers or handling of multiple cores should be necessary. Two "simple" rules (implementation notwithstanding):

1. A core can only be placed on a structure which already has a core (to prevent placing a core on an asteroid/station/planet and magically creating an instant ship-o-matic).
2. Placing a second core removes the existing core, after transferring all status.

To prevent abuses such as moving the core during combat, perhaps this can be done only while the ship is docked to a fixed entity (station/planet) or "in a shipyard". Or it just temporarily drops shields, requiring them to reset and recharge.

There may also be an issue of security, although possibly solvable with faction blocks and membership. (Can't have you just walking up to the enemy's ship and placing a core on it, then destroying it!)

Of course this doesn't account for any StarMade code design difficulties since I am not privy to that. But I really don't care if the computer has to rebuild or relocate the entire ship block-by-block around the new core location--better it than me.

I find that being unable to move the core greatly stifles the creative process, because the build has to start from the core and be built outward from it. But the "core room" isn't the central functional purpose of many ships, leading to the problem of having to design in detail the major features of the ship and the way(s) they fit together in order to determine exactly where the core needs to be.

 

[Megacrafter127]

Then make it possible to place multiple cores

Having multiple core-blocks is possible, but only one of them(the one, that was used to spawn the ship) does actually "hold" the data.
If one moves the core, the transimission of data isn't the problem, the problem is, that every single block on the ship would have to be translated to it's new relative location, because the core always is at 0,0,0 on the entity's block grid.

 

[Achriel]

Every single block on the ship would have to be translated to it's new relative location, because the core always is at 0,0,0 on the entity's block grid.

Nothing hard about that.. take the coordinate differentials (x, y & z) and apply that to the coordinates of every block on the ship and voila.. updated in less than a second, only 3 pieces of addition (at most) for each block. If one really neededs to be uber sure don't allow the 2nd core placement unless the ship is at zero velocity with no rotational effects at all.

 

[Megacrafter127]

updated in less than a second

For small ships, yes, for large ships, no. And if the translation process takes too long, and something gets in the way, essentially blocking a block from being translated.

 

[Achriel]

For small ships, yes, for large ships, no. And if the translation process takes too long, and something gets in the way, essentially blocking a block from being translated.

It should take no longer than the time to /load a ship as exactly the same thing happens there, an absolute reference is copied into a relativistic reference. Regardless, even if it took 5 minutes most ship design occurs offline or on local machines and in the case where it does not I doubt it's more CPU intensive than battle a 1/2 dozen pirates.

 

[Viridis00]

In regards to the solutions you guys are postulating, I don't think it's that simple to do this while the actual game is running. If it were, then it would probably have been implemented already because this is a popular request.

Personally I'll be fine with a standalone editor, official or 3rd party like SMEdit when that gets revived. Though, the way it worked in SMEdit in past builds was kind of clunky.

 

[Achriel]

Alas Viridis00 you are probably right.. there might be something evil that can't move the core while the ship is loaded and it's too much trouble at this stage of development to start officially supporting offline editing tools

 

[therimmer96]

The issue with moving the core is the core is the center of the entity. All other block locations are relative to the core. Moving it would be too much work for PC's and servers while running the game, because of having to edit the location of every single block on the ship

 

[0ldSkull]

The issue with moving the core is the core is the center of the entity. All other block locations are relative to the core. Moving it would be too much work for PC's and servers while running the game, because of having to edit the location of every single block on the ship

Umm... how exactly is that "too much work" for my computer to do while the game is running, but not "too much work" for me to do manually on my computer while the game is running?

 

[therimmer96]

You may have a good PC, but not everyone does. Have you heard of the game maxing peoples PC's out? That is from updating the block format of ships. This system would do exactly the same.

 

[0ldSkull]

So let the game pace out the work, taking an hour or more to eventually relocate all of the blocks just as if I were doing it manually. The end result is the same, and meanwhile I can go have a sandwich or something...

 

[ltmauve]

Well, you could make a copy of the ship, then transfer over the docked vessels onto the actual ship.

 

[lazarus78]

The issue with moving the core is the core is the center of the entity. All other block locations are relative to the core. Moving it would be too much work for PC's and servers while running the game, because of having to edit the location of every single block on the ship

Then don't tie them to the physical block, but rather like a station. The blocks can be relational to a central point, but the core of the ship doesnt need to be that point. It doesn't even need to be a block. If you remove a core block, the ship becomes like an astroid. Once you place a core block, it can then be controlled as normal. The original center of the ship doesn't need to change at all.

 

[sleepnow2]

I have an idea. Why not turn the camera into a "pilot seat" ish block. the only difference is that you can get in and out of a camera with full control of the vehicle. thus, it acts just like a core, but it can be destroyed. it also wouldn't change the ship block codes at all while in the process.

And to solve the problem of moving between docked entities, just move by jumping to the cores, then use the next/previous camera keys to move about the same ship.

it would also allow for a fast way to get throughout the interior of a large ship if you are playing in gangs online.

 

[OfficialCoding]

wow

I have an idea. Why not turn the camera into a "pilot seat" ish block. the only difference is that you can get in and out of a camera with full control of the vehicle. thus, it acts just like a core, but it can be destroyed. it also wouldn't change the ship block codes at all while in the process.

And to solve the problem of moving between docked entities, just move by jumping to the cores, then use the next/previous camera keys to move about the same ship.

it would also allow for a fast way to get throughout the interior of a large ship if you are playing in gangs online.

wow necro

 

[Sachys]

wow

wow necro

and kind of a pointless one at that