Missiles

[Will2brown]

Is it just me or are missiles seriously under powered like missiles do like 1 damage against shields, have a massive cool down time and aren't even needed to drill through hull cos AMC's do that already. Any body else think this is true?

 

[Sergeant Base]

I agree that they are weak vs. shields. But vs. hull-blocks they are very effective so after the shields down you can drill big holes into a ship with just one rocket That\'s not what I\'d call underpowered

 

[Will2brown]

But the prob. Is u don\'t need them, like they can be easily replaced by heavy amc guns and are generaly only used on battlecruisers and bigger so are under used to say the least.

 

[wolfboyft]

Eliminate the shields, then, lock on, fire, and before it hits, try to put the shields back down again before they block the missile.

 

[Fifthdread]

You outline the problem above: before the missiles even hit, the shields are already recharging. I am not sure how they could balance this, but as of now you do have to go about engagements in a few steps. First is AMC shields down, then fire missiles, then switch back to AMCs to keep the shields down. That\'s a little much if you ask me. Not sure how they could balance it though.

 

[obliqueObloquy]

If the concern is the shields beginning to recharge, maybe a block type that adds an Electromagnetic Pulse effect to the missile pod it is attached to would help? Maybe even make a new kind of missile that delivers an EMP effect. This could cause damage to shields, as well as sapping power and slowing shield and/or power regeneration. This would solve two problems, the first being that missiles have a hard time against shielded targets, so much so that a well shielded ship can absorb all but the strongest barrages of missiles with no damage and regenerate shields so fast that it is like nothing happened at all. In addition to expanding the potential use and effectiveness of missiles, this would eliminate the AMC\'s monopoly on shield destruction.

Feedback?

 

[Edbanger]

The problem with missiles are they are too slow to catch most ships.

So how about replacing their speed Value with Thrust, so they Accelerate just like a ship, up to the Server Speed limit.

If they also inherited the Relative Velocity of the Launching ship it would mean Missiles would be as fast as anything else, though they would be best used when closing on a target as a fleeing target would keep its distance at max speed,

this would mean that if someone launched a Brace of Missiles at you you would have to tactically decide between trying to Evade them head on, or turning tail an hoping to get to max speed before they get to you, or just taking the hits on your shields and barging through.

The fact that they are ineffective against shields is not really a problem, more of a tactical consideration. If you have to switch between weapons systems It means you have to be tactically aware of the situation and have built your ship accordingly with forethought.

Another Effect of changing Missile Speed for Acceleration is that it keeps them Relevant even on high Speed Severs.

If you really want to give the missiles a use against Shielded ships, how about a different approach, instead of taking down Shields, how about giving them Impact. using the Effect of the Pulseanators when missiles hit shields they bounce the target away from them, with a force proportional to the Area of the shield they hit so that a barrage of missiles will break up an incoming wave of bombers or fighters or knock a larger ship a bit of course buying you time to target them with your amc\'s



Thoughts?

 

[obliqueObloquy]

I still think that having an anti-shield option available is desirable, however. I also see a bit more potential for the pulse weapon, since it could be used to unlock missiles from one\'s ship at the last minute, without having the power consumption concerns of a radar jammer.

On the topic of shields, I think that it is a problem that there is only one weapon type that is good against shields. There really isn\'t much to consider when AMC\'s can punch a hole straight through a ship after tearing through its shields; no weapon system change is required. It almost defeats the purpose of having missiles in general. Adding EMP missiles would help to change this and make both weapon types feasible solutions, giving players a choice of what to use to confront shielded opponents. The EMP missile could act as a stand alone weapon, with high damage to shields and power drain effects but little to no physical damage, or as an attachment to another missile system to provide a way for the missiles to break through the last remainder of shields, or at least make a barrage fired too early deal acceptable damage to the shield system and slow the regeneration. The EMP variant combined with another missile system would of course have a much smaller effect than the basic EMP missile system, sort of like a missile with two warheads: one to weaken or break through the shields and one to punch giant craters in the enemy ship. This would have the added effect of making bombers and fighters practical in combat against the bigger ships as well, since as they are now, there are are not many options as far as shield depletion goes.

I like all of your ideas, I just don\'t see it as an alternative. I see our ideas working better together than either set alone. Missiles that can accelerate and actually chase their target well, no matter what the server speed limit is, will make missiles a better option against fighters, and EMPs will make missiles viable for fighters to use against capital ships. With a well timed pulse, a fighter could avoid certain destruction by a swarm of missiles, placing a burden of skill on the pilot, making fighters fun and challenging to pilot and much less likely to all get instantaneously wiped out by a barrage of KBs.

Any thoughts? Additions? Balancing ideas?

 

[Edbanger]

What about a warhead block that you lay down as the firing point of a missile, that changes the type of detonation., with no warhead block a missile launcher dose normal Explosive damage, but with a pulse Warhead block selected as the output for the group the missile will detonate as if it was a pulse warhead, and with a EMP warhead it will do its damage to shields but not hull. A LEACH warhead would bleed off a targets power reserve, etc this would mean you could selectively mix swarms of different missiles do have various effects

 

[obliqueObloquy]

I like it, but it sounds like it would get way too complicated way too quickly. Instead of adding many new kinds of blocks, adding just one to make things more concise sounds favorable. Here is my suggestion:

EMP missile computer: Allows control of banks of EMP missile arrays.


EMP missile array:

1. If connected to an EMP missile computer, fires a missile (homing?) which will cause the target ship to lose some amount of power, reduce the power regen, and briefly stop shields from recharging, all of which are proportional to the size and layout of the weapon system. These calculations can be done in a similar manner to those for the stats of a normal missile array, allowing for player controlled balance of the EMP effects.
2. If connected to another missile computer, the EMP missile array will be treated as an accessory to an array of missiles. The EMP array blocks will give the missile system bonus damage against shields, at the cost of some of its explosive damage. The ratio of shield damage to explosive damage is modified by the ratio of EMP blocks to base missile blocks. I know that sounds complicated, but it really isn\'t too bad. For example, say I wish to create a d1000 system with an EMP effect. If I use 100 d1000 blocks, the damage is 316.1 and the radius is 22 without any EMP blocks. If I were to add 25 EMP missile blocks on, the missile would deal a quarter of 316.1 damage times a constant to shields, and would deal explosive damage an eighth less efficiently. The formula would look something like this, I think:
   
   x = number of EMP missile system blocks
   y = number of base missile system blocks
   z = power of base missile
   d = shield damage constant
   c = missile power penalty constant
   s = final shield damage
   p = final base missile power
   
   s = d * z * x / y
   p = z - ( c * z * x / y )
   
   The exact values of d and c are debatable, but c would probably be between .5 and 0 and d would likely be rather large. the other option is that d and c take the number of missile blocks into account.

That\'s at least what my idea for the EMP is. Pulse and Leech systems could be implemented similarly in order to allow design choice.

 

[Captain Fortius]

Just raise all their stats. A lot. Especially speed and AOE. Right now they tend to hit ridiculously small holes compared to the amount of missile blocks they\'re made of.

Fixing done.

If we\'re willing to add an extra feature; They shouldn\'t explode on impact. Rather, punch into the target, destroying blocks like an amc bolt, and keep flying \'till the missile went in nearly as far as it\'s blast radius, and THEN detonate.

That way they wouldn\'t waste half their aoe, but still leave an open crater.