Missiles and Large Ships vs. Small Ships

[GDPR 302420]

It's an issue because, unless the developers change their plans, you'll have to send a crewmember to their death every time you want to fire a torpedo...

How do you know that this will be the case?

You don't and you won't until the developers release information regarding it.

 

[Calhoun]

It's highly unlikely AI blocks are going anywhere.

 

[dwwojcik]

I couldn't find where the devs announced that Crewmembers would replace 'ol Bobby, and the Development timeline is censored. Either the devs retracted their statement, or my memory is playing tricks on me.

Still though, my mind isn't changed. I still think item missiles would be better than drone torpedoes, even if drone torpedoes are good enough.

 

[Dire Venom]

I couldn't find where the devs announced that Crewmembers would replace 'ol Bobby, and the Development timeline is censored. Either the devs retracted their statement, or my memory is playing tricks on me.

Still though, my mind isn't changed. I still think item missiles would be better than drone torpedoes, even if drone torpedoes are good enough.

From my experiance Warhead torps are pretty unreliable and rely on glitching through ships to deal damage XD I would love if they could be a viable weapon, but they'd need a number of improvements first. I don't think the devs ever wanted to imply that bobby AI's were going away, simply that crew would offer more options.

 

[GDPR 302420]

From my experiance Warhead torps are pretty unreliable and rely on glitching through ships to deal damage

Then fix the associated issues with Warhead torpedos rather then make a useless change to missiles.

This should not even need an explanation.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Both missiles and warheads are broken.

Missiles require more blocks order to match the sustained damage output of other weapons; leading to larger builds (giantism). They are the only targetable/destructible projectiles in-game; requiring spamming (and an even larger ship to compensate for the 10% power penalty for the additional arrays) and/or the absence of AMS to be effective. Missile spam leads to AMS spam; which increases the number of overlapping collision check boxes per ship (server lag). Dire Venom, your thread on this subject addresses this problem somewhat. Overall, having fewer but more effective missiles vs fewer but more effective AMS turrets would be a good way to reduce lag. The key is to remove the need to spam (missiles and AMS) without penalizing missile damage potential any more than it already has been.

Warheads require a clipping glitch to do any damage at all to armored targets; otherwise they barely scratch the paint. In order to make effective torpedoes or homing mines, warheads need a sizable damage buff and AI needs a 'ram' setting. To maintain balance, AI must be given the ability to prioritize the targeting of warheads. Warheads should be traceable to the faction/player who deployed them and a method of detection/early warning must be given to prevent cloaked griefing.

 

[kulbolen]

Missiles require more blocks order to match the sustained damage output of other weapons

(and an even larger ship to compensate for the 10% power penalty for the additional arrays)

leading to larger builds (giantism)

anyone can make any weapon system bigger to get more damage if they want to. you compare equal size systems not a bigger one to a smaller one.

at equal size, an m/b will do more burst and less sustained than a b/c. they trade sustained damage for burst damage. simple.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

anyone can make any weapon system bigger to get more damage if they want to. you compare equal size systems not a bigger one to a smaller one.

Actually, I am comparing same size systems. Always have been.

at equal size, an m/b will do more burst and less sustained than a b/c. they trade sustained damage for burst damage. simple.

Not against shields or armor.

On paper, a missile has double the damage of a cannon or beam to compensate for half of your damage being wasted on open space. In practice, a missile has 65-75% of the block destruction efficiency of a cannon of equal size and 30-40% of shield breaking ability. Per weapon block placed, you do gain system block destruction efficiency, (since cannons tend to over-penetrate) but you lose a lot more anti-shield and anti-armor efficiency/effectiveness than what you gain in anti-system efficiency.

 

[Jojomo]

and a method of detection/early warning must be given to prevent cloaked griefing.

Decloak ships when they undock a child entity.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Decloak ships when they undock a child entity.

This would only nerf stealth ships firing warheads. It still doesn't get rid of the following threats.

- cloaked warhead ram sticks: the original warhead griefing tool.
- warhead ram sticks docked to a cloaker: for those that don't want to take structural damage when the bomb detonates
- stealth torpedo fleets: AI can be ordered to cloak now. Imagine hundreds of cloaked ram sticks in your base.

How about this? Make any entity with a warhead docked to it or as part of its structure show up on a player's or AI unit's radar but at a percentage of the normal detection range, modified by the speed a which the warhead (or its carrier) is moving.

Example; 25% of normal detection range with an additional 1% (of normal range) added for every 4% of the max server speed the warhead is moving. So... detection at 25% of normal range while stationary, 50% at full speed and detection at normal range when the target is using 100% overdrive or the equivalent power in push effects.

What this does,
- It makes rammers detectable; allowing the target's defenses to react to incoming warheads when they come into detection range.
- It retains the viability of stealth bombers; endangering only bombers and warheads that come within detection your threshold.
- It allows passive warhead detection ONLY by entities that are within detection range without forcing a decloak/unjam for everyone else in the area.

 

[kulbolen]

Not against shields or armor.

yes. against shields and armor.