Brainstorm This Missile ammo brainstorming

[Dr. Whammy]

If the crafting is too complex what about just buying the missiles?

I'm seeing this as similar to logic. There will always be those who can only handle an activation block, and there will be those who make simulated computers out of it. Would you argue for the removal of logic, as it allows those wishing to engage and benefit in its complexity, since it conveys advantage to those that can grasp it?

Actually Spunkie, I like the buying missiles/ammo idea. That is the most realistic suggestion I've heard. In Eve Online you get a discount from manufacturing your own ammo but you still have the option to buy ammo. I still think we need a way to determine how many we can hold.

Wait, that's it. We'd need to put a capacity limit on plex storage and make them linkable to missile computers so they draw ammo from storage upon use. You'd have to actually build a cargo hold; the bigger the hold the more ammo you get.

What do you think?

How about basing the capacity on individual block/item mass like on Eve?

 

[spunkiethefirst]

Excellent, now we are getting somewhere. Yes, a limit could be imposed by giving the plex storage a volume rating and missiles would take up a larger amount of it that way they could still stack yet still be limited. The shops could sell ready made standards and if you want something special you craft it yourself. Like potions in The Elder Scrolls 3 and 4, you could buy standard healing, fatigue, whatever potions or you could make your own custom ones.

 

[shadowulf]

OK, I'm starting to like the direction this is going. However, two major turn-offs are the current viability of warhead torpedoes as a limited use, high risk low reward weapon could be changed to be a high risk high reward weapon with a lot of damage potential but low chances of impact. The second is what is stopping me from filling a whole bunch of storages with missiles and linking each individual computer to a seperate storage, potentially holding 1000's of missiles apiece?

Warning:Personal Opinion
My thinking is that I would like to see specialized spaceships in game, more so then now. I would like to see a rock-paper-scissors-esque game of war, not a ships that has missiles, and beams, and cannons, and torpedoes, and drones, and awesome shields with insane regent. Wouldn't we all like to see mixed fleet engagements, relying on multiple different sized ships to coordinate to annihilate the opposition? Personally I wouldn't mind ammo for all weapons, not including beams, and a buff to warheads to make them viable.
[DOUBLEPOST=1443036256,1443035356][/DOUBLEPOST]Sorry for the double post but I felt it nesserary to seperate these two.

Missile ammo- one standard projectile, crafted in an advanced factory. Missile storage- an empty area, with no filler blocks, is connected to the computer. Its total block count is the max number of missiles able to be stored for that computer. A missile that has been crafted or bought is then put in the computer's ammo slot, up to the limit it has.
Crafting ideas: no rebuilt modules, but about 1/3 of the components used to create a thruster and warhead. Additionally, number of modules and secondary/tertiary effect the missile same as now, but adding components to the missiles, making their fire rate, damage, and reload change accordingly. This could also justify the differing reload times as the next missile being prepped for launch.
TL;DR: one missile ammo type, being modified to fire with different characteristics in-tube, and an empty space linked to the computer to determine ammo capacity.

 

[spunkiethefirst]

OK, I'm starting to like the direction this is going. However, two major turn-offs are the current viability of warhead torpedoes as a limited use, high risk low reward weapon could be changed to be a high risk high reward weapon with a lot of damage potential but low chances of impact. The second is what is stopping me from filling a whole bunch of storages with missiles and linking each individual computer to a seperate storage, potentially holding 1000's of missiles apiece?

The same with what limits everything else, money , resources, ship flight characteristics due to mass or shape.

 

[shadowulf]

Brain Blast! Instead of ammo, have linked storages filled with Resources that are used based on weapon size, slaves, damage, etc. Even a linear scaling of resources used would make titans pause before firing their 9+ million swarmers. This will limit their use, if they are used at all. As I've said before, it should be rock, paper, scissors as all weapons should have advantages and drawbacks.

Also, spunkiethefirst, please explain further, your answer does not really answer my question. If you'd like, we can PM this to avoid derailing the thread.
Also

 

[Dr. Whammy]

I too like the way this thread is turning out. By allowing the purchase of ammo, players can learn the crafting system without a sink or swim trial by fire. Meanwhile, the game play is not entirely dependent on the system.

Do you guys like the idea of giving weapon ammo (missiles in this case) a defined mass per item and capping plex storage capacity? This is probably one of the most feasible ways to prevent a titan class ship from having 9999999999zillion missiles on board.

 

[spunkiethefirst]

Brain Blast! Instead of ammo, have linked storages filled with Resources that are used based on weapon size, slaves, damage, etc. Even a linear scaling of resources used would make titans pause before firing their 9+ million swarmers. This will limit their use, if they are used at all. As I've said before, it should be rock, paper, scissors as all weapons should have advantages and drawbacks.

Also, spunkiethefirst, please explain further, your answer does not really answer my question. If you'd like, we can PM this to avoid derailing the thread.
Also

What I'm saying is adding a lot of storage is a non argument as its the same as adding a lot of capacitors so in effect nothing is stopping you. As for the torpedo question i consider them their own idea and not relevant to missile ammo systems and should stay in their own thread (yes warheads need to be adjusted quite a bit but that belongs in a warhead/torpedo thread).

 

[Parameter]

What's your thoughts on time delays being used to limit the number of missiles in a fight? You might carry 99quintillion missiles, 10 per storage, but if it takes time to reload missiles from the next storage into the launcher, you won't be able to employ all those missiles in a single engagement.

I dislike quoting myself in the same thread, but here's what I was thinking about this earlier:

A second, IMO better, option, is to require a cycle time when transitioning from one ammo storage to another. Simulation-wise, you can say that the automatic missile loaders are reloading the magazine from remote storage. Game-wise, even though you might can carry a lot of missiles, there is a cap on the number of missiles you can deploy in one engagement.

 

[spunkiethefirst]

Are you suggesting that missiles have so many shots at normal cooldown but then they have an extended cooldown after so many shots to "reload the rack"?

 

[Parameter]

Are you suggesting that missiles have so many shots at normal cooldown but then they have an extended cooldown after so many shots to "reload the rack"?

Yes, exactly. Maybe one storage holds 10 missiles. After you've shot 10 missiles using normal system cooldowns, there's a 90 second to several minute cooldown as new missiles are made ready to fire. My thought was the cycling cooldown would be long enough that you wouldn't count on more than 1 storage block of missiles for a normal length combat, but not so long that it was overly tedious.