Make the game harder

    Snk

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    The biggest problem with Star made, (Or any voxel based game for that matter) is that once you've finished building a ship big enough to cover the goddamn sun, gave it a fancy-smancy interior, killed all the little isanths, ate a couple planets, is that there's absolutely nothing in hell to do.
    I'm sure you all know how I feel. In Minecraft, once you've built a massive house and gotten all your armor and stuff is that there's nothing to do. You build a house, get bored, build another house, etc. It's a redundant circle of screw you.
    What this game, and any other voxel game, is missing, is some face-melting hardship. Minecraft would be exponentially more enjoyable if your house was attacked by goddamn dragons and you had to fight tooth and nail to protect your hard earned cash. (On a side note, the Avalon server in Minecraft has some pretty decent mobs).
    Star made needs the same. It should be that once you're done building your little ship in spawn, you are smothered into the nearest planet like a blind orphan in a professional football field. Challenge is what makes things interesting, my friends. Building your titan on top of a pile of gold and Isanth skeletons while your massive AI turrets tear anybody you don't like a new butt (For lack of a better word) may sound fun for a while. But it gets boring. What's fun is zooming through a nebulae so thick you can't see 300 meters in front of you, while Amc fire zips around you, barely missing while you and a couple AI crewman are running around your ship, (Please see Guns of Icarus), furiously typing at computers, zapping damaged shield generators with repair pistols, sealing plasma leaks, screaming as your best AI friend suffocates in the void while his blood boils. And then crashing into a goddamn blackhole so powerful you are turned inside out and hurled at the wrong end of the galaxy.
    Adrenaline is what makes the game fun. It's what makes any game fun. So! Here are some suggestions:

    1.) Food and suit energy. By now, I'm sure we've all figured out ways to keep your puny body running without food, but that still must require some sort of something to keep you alive. (Pink goo?) What I suggest is a hunger system. It would be replenished a certain amount by regular suit rations or whatever, and that's only if you have enough batteries to keep it running. If you have actual food (NPCs farming on planets FTW) it moves the hunger bar up a little more, making it so you can move faster and have more HP and stuff.

    2.) Better AI/default ships. Pretty self explanatory.

    3.) Navigational hazards. Right now I can travel 500km blindfolded with a thumb in my eye, all I need is a logic circuit, some push modules, a little something something to do on the way (Please see: http://starmadedock.net/threads/the-figurehead-captains-log.1363/). What we need is some black holes, nebulae, exploding asteroids, collision damage, space lightning (For that little extra feeling of screw you) pulsars, supernovas, etc. Just some stuff to dodge with your expert piloting skills, and honestly, who doesn't want to be hit by an explosive asteroid so you're flying through space at warp speed, you have no way to steer your ship, and you are running out of life support energy. Seriously, that would be fun.

    4.) Separate ship systems. Make it so that when you connect blocks of the same type together (Say, two shield generators) they act as a single system. And when 25% of that system is destroyed (One of those generators is destroyed) the entire thing explodes. Just, BOOM. 25% of that system may seem harsh, but honestly, who here has the time to sit and take out a 10x10x10 block of shield generators? Not me, I know. By the time you're finished destroying whatever system you're aiming at, your prey will most likely kill you. You could also create separate computers to monitor the health of each system.

    5.) Plasma leaks. When a block is damaged, it has a minor chance of venting plasma. It's basically just a stream of gas that damages anything else it touches.

    6.) Crewing:
    Remember those computers I talked about earlier? the ones that let you monitor the health of systems? Well, I had an idea. You could plop down in one of those, and tell your ship where to place the energy of whatever system you're monitoring. Say for example, you have a ship with a 10x10x10 block of shields. The computer displays a diagram of it, with all the power flowing in it. It's being destroyed. You have to move the power from the damage blocks about to die to the healthy blocks by rerouting power circuits. Kinda like a mini-game. Fun for both humans and AI crew.
    Also, a setting so that exposed components take a little random damage in exchange for increased performance. Your crew would have to run around and zap it with repair pistols so you could have increased speed, shields, or weapons fire. A computer could be there to monitor what bonuses you get and how much you get it. The bonus is dependent on A.) How much damage your system takes and B.) How much of it is exposed.
    Honestly, this is just one idea of how crewing would work. What crewing needs to be is something to keep you busy on long voyages, something fun and challenging, and something for masses of AI deckhands and some Human/AI bridge officers to do. Fun for the whole family.

    7.) Decrease the amount of shops, replace them with a few big ones (Could be on stations and planets) with interiors where you can look at farms and hire crew.

    Now, this is all really complex, but definitely would make the game much, much, better.
    So, what do you guys think?
     
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    mrsinister

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    well, it could be harder if your server is configured to use the ships you made as enemy ships....Sooo what would happen then if you happened upon an enemy with that Titan ship of yours? or even 2+ of those? couple that with the hardest setting in the game and you have a very nasty battle ahead of you. ;)

    ...and yes, I see your points as well.
     

    Snk

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    I don't think any server is crazy enough to give AI titans. But very good point - servers can create their own AI vessels. This still does not solve how bad the AI are at fighting, however.
     
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    Saying you should should be focusing fully alert to anything while flying is like saying you should be focusing fully alert to anything while being moving furniture or operating a ski lift. It makes sense until you ask somebody who did it for a day. I like being able to put something on the W key and watch things happen.

    Also, it won't work through what I call the month test. If it happened to something that you spent a month on, how mad would you be? And TBH I would be flat out driven up the wall and into the roof at mach 10. Heck, that would happen if I found out a random asteroid hit my engine and now half my ship exploded. Also, you forgot something about hazards: There's currently no alert system. Large ships have a much more narrow view than you might think. And what if your a lone wolf? What if your only ship gets sucked into a black hole when you can't afford a ship core and don't have one?
     
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    The biggest problem with Star made, (Or any voxel based game for that matter) is that once you've finished building a ship big enough to cover the goddamn sun, gave it a fancy-smancy interior, killed all the little isanths, ate a couple planets, is that there's absolutely nothing in hell to do.
    I'm sure you all know how I feel. In Minecraft, once you've built a massive house and gotten all your armor and stuff is that there's nothing to do. You build a house, get bored, build another house, etc. It's a redundant circle of screw you.
    What this game, and any other voxel game, is missing, is some face-melting hardship. Minecraft would be exponentially more enjoyable if your house was attacked by goddamn dragons and you had to fight tooth and nail to protect your hard earned cash. (On a side note, the Avalon server in Minecraft has some pretty decent mobs).
    Star made needs the same. It should be that once you're done building your little ship in spawn, you are smothered into the nearest planet like a blind orphan in a professional football field. Challenge is what makes things interesting, my friends. Building your titan on top of a pile of gold and Isanth skeletons while your massive AI turrets tear anybody you don't like a new butt (For lack of a better word) may sound fun for a while. But it gets boring. What's fun is zooming through a nebulae so thick you can't see 300 meters in front of you, while Amc fire zips around you, barely missing while you and a couple AI crewman are running around your ship, (Please see Guns of Icarus), furiously typing at computers, zapping damaged shield generators with repair pistols, sealing plasma leaks, screaming as your best AI friend suffocates in the void while his blood boils. And then crashing into a goddamn blackhole so powerful you are turned inside out and hurled at the wrong end of the galaxy.
    Adrenaline is what makes the game fun. It's what makes any game fun. So! Here are some suggestions:

    1.) Food and suit energy. By now, I'm sure we've all figured out ways to keep your puny body running without food, but that still must require some sort of something to keep you alive. (Pink goo?) What I suggest is a hunger system. It would be replenished a certain amount by regular suit rations or whatever, and that's only if you have enough batteries to keep it running. If you have actual food (NPCs farming on planets FTW) it moves the hunger bar up a little more, making it so you can move faster and have more HP and stuff.

    2.) Better AI/default ships. Pretty self explanatory.

    3.) Navigational hazards. Right now I can travel 500km blindfolded with a thumb in my eye, all I need is a logic circuit, some push modules, a little something something to do on the way (Please see: http://starmadedock.net/threads/the-figurehead-captains-log.1363/). What we need is some black holes, nebulae, exploding asteroids, collision damage, space lightning (For that little extra feeling of screw you) pulsars, supernovas, etc. Just some stuff to dodge with your expert piloting skills, and honestly, who doesn't want to be hit by an explosive asteroid so you're flying through space at warp speed, you have no way to steer your ship, and you are running out of life support energy. Seriously, that would be fun.

    4.) Separate ship systems. Make it so that when you connect blocks of the same type together (Say, two shield generators) they act as a single system. And when 25% of that system is destroyed (One of those generators is destroyed) the entire thing explodes. Just, BOOM. 25% of that system may seem harsh, but honestly, who here has the time to sit and take out a 10x10x10 block of shield generators? Not me, I know. By the time you're finished destroying whatever system you're aiming at, your prey will most likely kill you. You could also create separate computers to monitor the health of each system.

    5.) Plasma leaks. When a block is damaged, it has a minor chance of venting plasma. It's basically just a stream of gas that damages anything else it touches.

    6.) Crewing:
    Remember those computers I talked about earlier? the ones that let you monitor the health of systems? Well, I had an idea. You could plop down in one of those, and tell your ship where to place the energy of whatever system you're monitoring. Say for example, you have a ship with a 10x10x10 block of shields. The computer displays a diagram of it, with all the power flowing in it. It's being destroyed. You have to move the power from the damage blocks about to die to the healthy blocks by rerouting power circuits. Kinda like a mini-game. Fun for both humans and AI crew.
    Also, a setting so that exposed components take a little random damage in exchange for increased performance. Your crew would have to run around and zap it with repair pistols so you could have increased speed, shields, or weapons fire. A computer could be there to monitor what bonuses you get and how much you get it. The bonus is dependent on A.) How much damage your system takes and B.) How much of it is exposed.
    Honestly, this is just one idea of how crewing would work. What crewing needs to be is something to keep you busy on long voyages, something fun and challenging, and something for masses of AI deckhands and some Human/AI bridge officers to do. Fun for the whole family.

    7.) Decrease the amount of shops, replace them with a few big ones (Could be on stations and planets) with interiors where you can look at farms and hire crew.

    Now, this is all really complex, but definitely would make the game much, much, better.
    So, what do you guys think?
    there should be heavily randomly generated then there will always be something to do... and other kinds of ai simulation would be nice aswell.
     

    Snk

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    Saying you should should be focusing fully alert to anything while flying is like saying you should be focusing fully alert to anything while being moving furniture or operating a ski lift. It makes sense until you ask somebody who did it for a day. I like being able to put something on the W key and watch things happen.

    Also, it won't work through what I call the month test. If it happened to something that you spent a month on, how mad would you be? And TBH I would be flat out driven up the wall and into the roof at mach 10. Heck, that would happen if I found out a random asteroid hit my engine and now half my ship exploded. Also, you forgot something about hazards: There's currently no alert system. Large ships have a much more narrow view than you might think. And what if your a lone wolf? What if your only ship gets sucked into a black hole when you can't afford a ship core and don't have one?
    I see your point. But you could always catalog something, and I have been traveling a lot. That's pretty much all I do in Star made. I'm sure a ski lift operator would want his job to be a little more exciting.
     

    mrsinister

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    I don't think any server is crazy enough to give AI titans. But very good point - servers can create their own AI vessels. This still does not solve how bad the AI are at fighting, however.
    well, you can config the AI fighting to be better, its all on the server. :) I have mine set to almost never miss.
     
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    The new default is 1000 m 99% accuracy. Since most weapons don't noemally fire that far, it seems to be OK.
     
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    I see your point. But you could always catalog something, and I have been traveling a lot. That's pretty much all I do in Star made. I'm sure a ski lift operator would want his job to be a little more exciting.
    Did you read my scenario?* This person can't afford a SHIP CORE never mind a dedicated ship (which has the core price included) and never mind my other idea about the ski lift operator, imagine for a moment if there where lava pits and spikes falling from the ceiling in the level select screen in Mario. And I mean instadeath. No level, no anything. Just lose a life. That would be roof-crashingly rage-inducing.

    And for the record, I am glad someone can understand a builder. Now I think of this, it makes more sense in a hardcore mode. Thing is, I have a default disagreement with this because when someone says it needs to be harder they're usually people who could play two versions of the game at once blindfolded wanting it to be their level. This would be a lot better of a suggestion if you made it
    hardcore mode or something.

    *Thi is the first and last time I will use he did you even read comeback. It's annoying to no end.
     

    Lecic

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    You can always space walk to an asteroid, hand mine it, sell the rock and ore, and get a core + ship bits and start all over again.

    Anyway, ever hear about putting all your eggs in one basket? Have multiple ships in case something like this happens.
     
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    haha ai titans, windoom hardcore... titans are there, and your expected to fight them to live. sounds fun... the ai part is completely configurable and the server you play on can choose that.
     
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    The ai actually gets better when you turn liniar dampening down. This is because the ai doesn't know how to break, and normally it just stops moving when it comes within firing range of a target. When liniar dampening is turned down, they are constantly drifting in and out of range, creating ai that always moves around.
    As for endgame, you will have acsess to lua coding to program your own ai, and there will also be a player generated quest system. On top of that, you will eventually have hyper-luminal traveling (think 300x max overdrive) and you will have to steer around all maner of space-faring monsters as well as asteroids (with collision dmg turned on), as well as a multitute of nebulae and black holes
    These and more are all CONFIMED FEATURES as stated by the devs in dev Q and A's, so dont worry about it :)
     

    Lecic

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    The ai actually gets better when you turn liniar dampening down. This is because the ai doesn't know how to break, and normally it just stops moving when it comes within firing range of a target. When liniar dampening is turned down, they are constantly drifting in and out of range, creating ai that always moves around.
    As for endgame, you will have acsess to lua coding to program your own ai, and there will also be a player generated quest system. On top of that, you will eventually have hyper-luminal traveling (think 300x max overdrive) and you will have to steer around all maner of space-faring monsters as well as asteroids (with collision dmg turned on), as well as a multitute of nebulae and black holes
    These and more are all CONFIMED FEATURES as stated by the devs in dev Q and A's, so dont worry about it :)
    I don't think we're getting high speed in universe travel. It lags heavily, especially on smaller sector sizes. I'm pretty sure we're getting some kind of teleportation type FTL.
     
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    1. Hell no. The second they add that kind of micromanagement, I will quit Starmade forever. I absolutely HATE micromanagement, and I am still irritated they added hunger crap to Minecraft.

    2. Better AI? Really? How about "No Sh** Shurlock"? Obviously better AI is necessary.

    3. The fact of the matter is, you could blindfold yourself for a billion years and never hit anything in space for real. I think the game's clutter density is just fine. More variation, sure, but density is fine. Im actually planning on upping the sector size so that space is even MORE empty.

    4. The game is already going to have ships treated as a whole object rather then core drilling. I am never in favor of flat out exploding things because, for me, it discourages building cool things in favor of purely utilitarian things.

    5. Pointless. So no.

    6. Future mechanics make this bit completely pointless.

    7. Only decent thing you've suggested.
     
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    I think all of this is completely pointless except the part with the shops.
    Mainly the better AI because I have a hard time targeting with 5 - 10 fps in a 1 on 1 battle with a pirate.
    Maybe even more configurable AI (or total) difficulty should be implemented instead as well as lighter performance.

    BTW don't tell me to buy a better computer (already got a lot of these) because I can't afford it.
     

    Mariux

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    How about instead of all this just make the game spa2n harder enemies the farther you go from 0 0 0?
     

    Ithirahad

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    well, it could be harder if your server is configured to use the ships you made as enemy ships....Sooo what would happen then if you happened upon an enemy with that Titan ship of yours? or even 2+ of those? couple that with the hardest setting in the game and you have a very nasty battle ahead of you. ;)

    ...and yes, I see your points as well.
    ...What would happen, Sinister, is that you would get a lot of lag for no good reason, since Starmade doesn't scale enemy ship size and squadron size. You wouldn't get "a Titan or 2," you'd get enough titans to lag out the server sometimes. Oh, and it wouldn't be much more exciting than the current game anyway. What Snk is suggesting is to add life, excitement, and activity to the game, not just more giant ships flying all over the place, which is in fact the opposite of what this game needs. The only thing I truly dislike about his suggestions is the concept of random plasma leaks, which would be more annoyance than they're worth, unless that's a specific feature of a certain block, say, thrusters.

    ...Also, the explosion thing is a good idea in concept, but it would also end up kind of annoying. I'd rather have a system where each subsystem has "armor"; after that is depleted any hit blocks would create a very small, non-chaining explosion when hit. (between one and two blocks radius depending on the block)

    This would give more incentive to use hull to cover systems, and would also create weak points in ships that aren't carefully built.
     
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    My opinion on these ideas:
    1) I disagree with both, it would just be annoying. However, I see what you are getting at, but oxygen would make more sence.
    2) I couldn't agree more, although coming across a fleet of pirates in "mean" mode, well, The first thought that went throug my head: they don't look that scary! Yay, and a big smile. It took a while for them to notice me, but when they did, it was like the universe got ripped apart and I feared for my life (but then I remembered I had 100% ion effect, and that they didn't do any damage because of it, and then they just were annoying).
    3) Now that is a brilliant idea, and I believe that I have said enough regarding that idea, although I would like to add that I completely agree with you when you said that you "can fly blindfolded with a thumb in your eye' (brilliant comparison btw)
    4) I kind of like it, but I believe that it should only apply to weapons.
    5) Just no.
    6) Maybe we should wait to see what the devs are going to do with the crew.
    7) Shops should be nicer and it should be harder to sell everything, please check out my thread regarding the shops (do keep in mind that every point is a separate idea and that the thread just exists to put all those ideas related to shops inn one place). Also please let me know what you thought of those ideas.

    It is my experience that threads that suggest to make the game harder in general get quite a lot of disagrees. That is sad, really, because the game, as it is right now, is way to simpel and not challenging what so ever,