Keep Faction Homes Invincible

    Edymnion

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    Some talk about faction home base invincibility going away at some point in the future. Might be true, it might be regular old Internet rumor mongering. Either way, I felt like laying this out publicly just to be 100% sure it's heard.

    If HB invincibility is ever removed, I will drop this game like it was hot.

    Let me explain.

    I used to be an MMO player, key words there being "used to". I started out back when The Realm Online was hot stuff, that's how long it's been.

    I loved the social aspects of online games, but I grew to have a seething hatred of griefers. And over the years, I have watched PvP become virtually synonymous with griefing.

    Now, not all PvPers are griefers, there are plenty out there that legitimately enjoy the thrill and the unpredictability of fighting another human instead of a predictable AI. Please note that if you are one of those players, I am not talking to or about you with the rest of this.

    Then there are the people that are either in the majority or they just scream the loudest, the "hardcore" PvPers that think attacking lobes on sight with an unstoppable character is fun. The ones who don't want a fair fight, and don't want people to be able to avoid unfair fights.

    These are the assholes that give PvP such a terrible name in my book. And they are everywhere. Anything that makes their job easier makes a game worse for everyone.

    Real world Starmade example, I have a warp gate at spawn on my server. It has 100k shields and a massive turret on it for defense against the idiots that would attack it just because it's there. I have had to repair our outright replace the gate and the turret at least once a week from people who were witnessed doing nothing but logging in, making a gunship, and attacking it.

    I routinely have to go to spawn specifically to stop people shooting the place up because apparently they think the best way to play the game is to kill as many noobs as they possibly can before moving to the next server.

    These types are not an exception, they are a daily occurrence. And frankly the fact that we can have an invincible home station to protect us from these people, and protect our ships is the only thing that makes the game playable.

    New players should not be forced to join factions and live in some e else's base just to be allowed to play the game. Players should not have to be afraid to find out that everything they've built has been destroyed because some bunch of 4 Chan trolls decided to log in en mass to destroy a server.

    And just saying it's okay to remove the invulnrability when X% of people are online doesn't solve the issue, it just makes people afraid to log on if a bigger faction is gunning for them.

    At no point, far as I am concerned, is it ever acceptable for someone else to decide when I can or cannot play a game I paid for.

    Now, if there is a system where players can agree to death match warfare where their protection is disabled, that's fine. Two consenting players that enjoy that kind of play are more than welcome to do so.

    But anything that helps PvP at the expense of PvE, or forces someone into PvP that doesn't want it does nothing but promote griefing and slowly poisons the game.

    There are plenty of other places people can go for unrestricted PvP, let's keep Starmade's primary focus on building and creating.
     

    sayerulz

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    You do have a point about greifers. They are the reason I don't play games on servers much.
     
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    I seriously doubt this is something you'll ever have to worry about m8.
     

    Edymnion

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    I seriously doubt this is something you'll ever have to worry about m8.
    All that is required for Evil to triumph is for good men to remain silent.

    Those whom you least wish to speak for you most often yell the loudest.

    Additional quote about not speaking up when you had the chance goes here.
     

    Valiant70

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    I imagine home base invulnerability will remain as a server option even if it becomes depreciated. I wouldn't worry about it.
     
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    I kinda agree with the whole general idea but...

    Players should not have to be afraid to find out that everything they've built has been destroyed because some bunch of 4 Chan trolls decided to log in en mass to destroy a server.
     
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    Zyrr

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    Players should not have to be afraid to find out that everything they've built has been destroyed because some bunch of 4 Chan trolls decided to log in en mass to destroy a server.
     
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    Weee-ow arstotzka was like 90% "4chan trolls"


    I'd be cool with this if it homebase coords weren't fuckin broadcasted to the entire server.
     

    Keptick

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    I HB protection gets removed I'll just keep my base as a normal station and use an other captured system for mining. Good luck finding it :p

    Basically it'd get even more stale since bases would be impossible to find.
     

    Jaaskinal

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    I HB protection gets removed I'll just keep my base as a normal station and use an other captured system for mining. Good luck finding it :p

    Basically it'd get even more stale since bases would be impossible to find.
    I agree except for that last part. It wouldn't be impossible, it'd just take a spy, which I even disagree with.
     

    Keptick

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    I agree except for that last part. It wouldn't be impossible, it'd just take a spy, which I even disagree with.
    True, being forced to use spais would suck even more.
     
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    OP's got it laid out perfectly.
    Most PVP'ers are emotional cripples who want nothing more then to kick Your sand castle over at the playground because Their mommies hugged Them to much/no enough.
    Having an invulnerable home base was a literal safe harbor, a place where any player could go and not have to worry about being forced into a fight They didn't want. Even if said base was little more then a single room with a bunch of docking blocks, as long as Your ship were docked, You were safe.

    Invulnerable bases have become even more important with the last few updates to resource collecting: Crafting is far more complex, raw materials are scarce, blueprints are "buy with blocks" by default, and naturally spawned stations have that god-awful "decayed" nonsense now, so You can't even harvest one of them for replacement parts. So what happens when You log off, enjoy having a life out of a video game for a bit, log back in, and find that the munchkins have wiped out everything You had, leaving only an artificially-created "asteroid" in the shape of a dick floating where Your home and ship was? You've just lost everything in a war that You didn't even participate in, a war You never wanted, a war You may not have been equipped to fight in, and it may take months to rebuild.

    Even if You were logged in at the time, it mean's nothing if You and/or Your faction are being besieged by forces that You simply can't fight off. I'm sure Joe Blow's faction of buddies really appreciates it when the resident serious business conglomerate decides it's Normie-stomping day on the server and visits Joe's base with Their whole team of 900 meter bitchsplitter ships for "a bit of the ole' in-out-in-out".
    Hell, all it takes is a single player with a doom cube to make all You stuff "go boom".

    Oh, and Comr4de has another point: Why in the radioactive glory are home base co-ords automatically listed?!? If a faction wants Their home base listed, They can write the co-ords into the faction description Themselves.
     
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    Majorfatboy has a valid point, my first month playing Starmade consisted of: Join noob faction, make a starting miner, mine for a week, whole faction gets crushed by another faction with multiple 20mil shield ships and 10x our resources because we were allied to their enemies and were actually using our ships, end up with one miner between 5-6 active players, start up again and get a ship half done, faction leader thinks he can choose to not set homebase as faction home and thus not broadcast coords and thus not be found by enemy faction, get crushed again by the same faction because they can explore multiple systems and eventually find where we're hiding within a day even though we went halfway to the galactic rim of the spawn system, rinse repeat until said enemy faction cheats using exploits that Schine will not admit to in public and is subsequently banned , and then we finally get a chance to build a whole damn noob ship only after people are banned. I kept playing, 5 others didn't, and I imagine I'd have quit too if not for the cheating and banning which is the only thing that gave us a chance to get established.
    Do we really want 1 out of 6 noob players encouraged to quit the game purely because they didn't find the game 3 months earlier?
     
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    Majorfatboy, you are wrong beyond words about a lot of PvPers, and I won't have you going around painting large groups of people with the same brush just because you've had some bad experiences. You're letting your throbbing painful mess of an arse blind you.

    These games are about competition. Can't step up? Go home. Don't sit there whining about PvP just because you're inept at it. There's plenty of servers that concentrate on Roleplay and building instead of PvP. Might I suggest you head to one of those instead?

    But noooo, let's wrap everyone up in bubble wrap, and hold their hands. Let's stamp out ambition, competition and the drive to overcome obstacles. Let's just give everyone a participation award, tell them all they're the best, but no one is better than the other. Yeah, let's delve into that degeneracy.

    In the spirit of the thread however; extend home base protection, so you can apply it to outposts away from the homebase sector. The more outposts, the higher the faction points you have to pay to maintain it. Say; 1 faction point to maintain the homebase. Then another 2 points for an outpost, then another 4 for another outpost. Encourage people to extend their territory and accumulate faction points.
     
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    Go play on an RP or build server, you big baby.

    "Everyone who likes competition scares me, they are sociopaths!"

    Out.
     
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    Edymnion

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    And those are exactly the attitudes that make most people hate PvPers so much.

    That "Wah, if you don't like it when I bring a capitol ship to face roll your newb ass, then go home and cry about it" mentality is EXACTLY the kind of thing that gives real PvP a bad name.
     
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    And those are exactly the attitudes that make most people hate PvPers so much.

    That "Wah, if you don't like it when I bring a capitol ship to face roll your newb ass, then go home and cry about it" mentality is EXACTLY the kind of thing that gives real PvP a bad name.
    What's wrong with my attitude exactly? If you can't keep up in the competitive environment, then you shouldn't be there. That's a simple matter of fact.

    In the immortal words of 4chan's Dark Souls threads; Git Gud

    What is 'real' PvP to you? When you win?