Just gonna leave this here...

[Dire Venom]

Balance should be based off mass and build costs. (Dimensions mean nothing)
So you are okay with fighting any dimension, and shape of ship, as long as it has the same mass or build cost? You tell me, that you enjoy fighting against any ship regardless of any stupid shape and size you can think of? For example doom bricks, spagetti and long ass sticks?

Isn't that his point:? No one enjoys fighting long ass stick-like-sticks (beyound resonable dimensions).
In the current power build they are desirable and far more effective than a different shaped ship with the same blocks.
If long ass sticks are made not inheriently more desirable than octupus starfish, do you think we will see more sticky-like-sticks or more octopus starfish:?

Its like you can get a Toyota, OR 10 Toyotas WITH cupholders, except they are all painted pink.
Looking nice is satisfying, but it doesn't matter for combat and balancing.

 

[JinM]

Isn't that his point:? No one enjoys fighting long ass stick-like-sticks (beyound resonable dimensions).
In the current power build they are desirable and far more effective than a different shaped ship with the same blocks.
If long ass sticks are made not inheriently more desirable than octupus starfish, do you think we will see more sticky-like-sticks or more octopus starfish:?

Its like you can get a Toyota, OR 10 Toyotas WITH cupholders, except they are all painted pink.
Looking nice is satisfying, but it doesn't matter for combat and balancing.

You know why I think the mods are right with being biased? Because you guys are permanently spam rating my stuff funny, and deserve to get permanently banned from this forum for this ongoing bullshit. Lecic

I don't want to talk like this. And I think regardless of what argument I come up with, you guys will allways try to disagree with it. This isn't about facts. For you guys it's just about trashtalking.

 

[Dire Venom]

You know why I think the mods are right with being biased? Because you guys are permanently spam rating my stuff funny, and deserve to get permanently banned from this forum for this ongoing bullshit. Lecic

I don't want to talk like this. And I think regardless of what argument I come up with, you guys will allways try to disagree with it. This isn't about facts. For you guys it's just about trashtalking.

I simply found it funny and am happy to explain why I found some of your posts funny, I don't mean to cause spam or any personal issue.
I don't disagree with all of what you mention, thus disagree is the wrong emote, as I do agree with some of your posts.
I didn't really learn a new game mechanic or feature so it wasn't really informative,
Althougth I did get to see and understand your point of view and opinion, so I guess informative is actualy the correct emote for me to use:?
Please let me know if I'm wrong.
Thanks!

(My point of view is simply that the new power system should not be tailored towards one ship design, Long lines/Sticks/Needles, and needs further revision).
I am fine with building induvidual parts around certian shapes for effectiveness, but not my whole ship, especialy If I want to make a more creative shape other than a dildo.

 

[Lecic]

Well I rather fight with style.

That's nice. "Style" isn't something quantifiable though. Can't really use it for balance, sorry.

You know why I think the mods are right with being biased? Because you guys are permanently spam rating my stuff funny, and deserve to get permanently banned from this forum for this ongoing bullshit. Lecic

I don't want to talk like this. And I think regardless of what argument I come up with, you guys will allways try to disagree with it. This isn't about facts. For you guys it's just about trashtalking.

Dismissing my argument as "just trashtalking" when I am attempting to explain the problems in your methodology towards balancing the PvP game and telling me I should be banned is pretty disrespectful.

Would you rather I use disagree? I prefer to use funny because it still gives someone a positive rating.

 

[The Judge]

Yeah I think that's just logical. The new system allows this.

I don't think you understand.
HOW does the new power system allow this? You continuously give vague answers with little to no support. Explain WHY you think your idea is correct and give evidence that said idea is correct. I often see nothing aside from a claim, or many claims. Sorry to be rude but this repeated nonsense is hurting the debate at hand.
Edit:
I'd also like to point out that Ith's post at the beginning of the thread uses ingame calculations and it contradicts that statement.

Spoiler: Image

 

[FlyingDebris]

You know why I think the mods are right with being biased? Because you guys are permanently spam rating my stuff funny, and deserve to get permanently banned from this forum for this ongoing bullshit. Lecic

I don't want to talk like this. And I think regardless of what argument I come up with, you guys will allways try to disagree with it. This isn't about facts. For you guys it's just about trashtalking.

Saying someone disagreeing with your points is because of a personal grudge only gets you so far. Yes, due to the number of posts you've made that can be seen as incorrect some people may have developed a tendency to lean towards disagreeing with your posts, but frankly you need to realize that these are people who have been playing the game far longer than you and know a lot more about the intricacies of the game itself, including the devbuild because not every system is now different. That, on top of the fact that, like it or not, these same people have dedicated more hours than most to specifically trying to find broken shit either to report or use on their ships.

 

[The_Owl]

You know why I think the mods are right with being biased? Because you guys are permanently spam rating my stuff funny, and deserve to get permanently banned from this forum for this ongoing bullshit. Lecic

I don't want to talk like this. And I think regardless of what argument I come up with, you guys will allways try to disagree with it. This isn't about facts. For you guys it's just about trashtalking.

You sound like a 2 year old. People disagree with your posts and show it. It's a fucking internet point and it's fucking worthless. Grow up.

 

[GDPR 302420]

You know why I think the mods are right with being biased? Because you guys are permanently spam rating my stuff funny, and deserve to get permanently banned from this forum for this ongoing bullshit. Lecic

I don't want to talk like this. And I think regardless of what argument I come up with, you guys will allways try to disagree with it. This isn't about facts. For you guys it's just about trashtalking.

Just because people disagree with you doesn't mean they are someone "attacking" or "trashtalking" you, people are just expressing that what they think what you say is bullshit.

This is the internet, people will disagree with you and if you have a problem with people having the audacity to disagree with your oh-so-sacred statements then go join a hugbox community or just don't use the internet.

Grow up.
[doublepost=1512378533,1512378331][/doublepost]On that note JinM thank you for making it very clear that you support moderation bias against people you dislike in its entirety, I wasnt sure whenever you did or didnt but thank you for confirming that you fully support mod bias and are apart of the very issue that we are seeking to have repaired.

Oh and before you scramble to report these posts calling you out, just remember that some of your recent posts are (to an unbiased mod) in violation of flaming and trolling rules, keep that in mind before you start to spam the report button.

 

[Nauvran]

You know why I think the mods are right with being biased? Because you guys are permanently spam rating my stuff funny, and deserve to get permanently banned from this forum for this ongoing bullshit. Lecic

I don't want to talk like this. And I think regardless of what argument I come up with, you guys will allways try to disagree with it. This isn't about facts. For you guys it's just about trashtalking.

what spam are you talking about, they seem to be responding to your messages both via posts and ratings. If it was truly rating spam then they would go through all your old posts and rate them funny and get all their friends and foes to come help make you look like a big joke

 

[GnomeKing]

same mass

mass is the only sensible criteria to use for comparison - that unifies various aspects of the amount and 'efficiency' of actual blocks placed in the game. This is fundamental. > it is how 'mass'/blocks are implemented in a build that drives the entire game forward.

'Power-Energy' has always been functional outcome of block-choice in Starmade - this is a better/more fun/more engaging system than, for example, 'levels' of reactor/ship or solutions such a CPU-cycle (or whatever it is) in another block-building-fight-game (although i expect there are advantages in terms of Development and Profit for that game by having 'cpu levels').

The fact that we don't need to fill the entire hull with systems means that now the only limiting factor on systems is power. Everything starts with that.

Power, as the most fundamental implementation of mass for the player structures a lot about a final ship (if one builds systems first without a very specific hull in mind for example). 2.0 works quite well with per-existing hulls ( eg increases in one factor are balanced by decrease on others etc).

I rather like the different problem created by 'Goldilocks' power-systems (ie just right for the size/job), and so working with ideas where 'excessive'/'oversized' power is a more marked hindrance.

But the shape-meta it creates has a very strong pull in a rather predictable direction, and despite 'Goldilocks-fun' massed heaps of reactors/stabilizers at either end of the ship is just so very very unappealing

Overall (leaving aside chambers and some other changes) I just don't think the reactor-stabilizer system is great step forward as it currently stands.

I can build for rp, and still aim for the maximum power now.

IDK about all this RP/PP/EVP?/PRV/VpR.....i don't think there is a huge division for a lot of people who have played game over the years . Power is fundamental - everybody needs it - its just 'some-amount' harder (and therefore maybe more rewarding) to put in xx rooms, xx med-bays, a swimming pool, and cup holders for all the crew.

Ships that deviate from a theoretical '100%-focused-system' towards ones with much lower % of focused-systems will always under-perform in a direct comparison.

Where we not able to build 'RP' ships in 1.0 ?

That was not possible with the old power.

What is an RP ship ?



My top sci-fi author is Ian M Banks (RIP). I kinda like his 'logical' view of theoretical technologies, and super-imbalanced existential relationships (like a cosmic coral reef...). But lets consider the range of ships:

Yes there are huge titans packed with crew, med bays and cup-holders - these are not a combat ships per se., and the massive fleet in the Algerbraist (with a massive hulking titan-capital-fortress-flagship) is in the end vaporized in seconds

And that was not even by the Culture ships...

The feared Culture war-ships and contact-vessels (excluding the vast General Systems Vehicles) are generally small > and extremely dense.
The density is a a key factor in their power source.
This ships are part of AI fleets, with virtually no internal space for Humans. They are are extremely deadly, specifically designed to use vastly-overwhelming force (not necessarily numbers) in extremely precise and tactically advantageous ways.

What else can a space AI do, eh?

In combat, these ships (and others) are using further sub-sets of drones - down to the legendary Knife-Missiles, each one having many magnitudes of destructive potential beyond crusader-ships-with-cup-holders......

Anyway the point is that interior less AI ships - or similar - are very much 'RP' (imo) - things like colony ships, asteroid-civilizations, and foolish-crusades, huge titans designed for many crew (who all need tea-security), don't often come out-well as combat ships - nor should they.

Titans and smaller crewed-ships (including Culture GSVs and Contact vessels ) are however key elements in plot and 'faction-dynamics' - that is something maybe above basic considerations of power-generation and mass-per-mass 'power-rating' levels.

(or put another way, There is still a need to securely house containers of hot beverage...at least for any Human with self-respect and no stains on space-suit)

 

[Nauvran]

JinM So whats that funny rating supposed to mean, I know you might find my post funny but could you please explain?

 

[JinM]

Dismissing my argument as "just trashtalking" when I am attempting to explain the problems in your methodology towards balancing the PvP game and telling me I should be banned is pretty disrespectful.

Would you rather I use disagree? I prefer to use funny because it still gives someone a positive rating.

So do you really not understand why I am annoyed? Or do you just want to say, that the reason why I am annoyed is unjustified? And why can't you understand what an exageration is, like calling you trashtalker, when you call me homophobe and other names in other occastions?

I don't see a reason that you rate my recent posts negative, regardless of funny or disagree, at all when you tell me so anyway right in the following post under my post. Ofcourse, when I make a thread and you want to disagree with it, I don't care at all how you rate my OP, and I think it's all good. But when we talk like only with 3 guys in this thread just to each other, no one will remember in one week who got what ratings. Sir, why do you even need to use that rating when you actually reply to me right here in the thread? I certainly know that you disagree with me. This ratings are so you can safe your breath and don't need to type each time you disagre.

And I don't care for getting negative points so much, but I do care if someone is talking to me respectfully. And when you click on that funny button you say to me, that my posts are jokes.

I really think you don't want to talk serious and respectful about it. Since 6 weeks, everytime when I post stuff, you are one of that guys putting a funny rating under every second post of mine. Didn't you notice, that only like 5 guys on this forum even use funny? And half of them does it to imply that the opinion they rate is just a joke.

And you know that using funny instead of disagree is disrespectful. And you are doing it on so many posts of mine.

And what I find also disrespectful is, that the way you write is very often pretty agressive, including calling me homophobe and what do I know what you called me when you find a good occasion.

So with all the negative feedback I get from you, where is the reason here, that I should think, that you use the funny rating to do something good. No man, don't bullshit me, you want to sound negative with the funny ratings. Telling me differently is just dishonesty to further troll me.

So yeah. I think that the bias is justified. When you guys stop using this funny ratings so often we can take your opinions on biased moderation serious. But the only possibility for me right now, is to remember how you talk to me, and just ignore how you react to me until you one day might change. I certainly have no problem when people trashtalk me or spam rate me from time to time. But the way you do it? Nah man you know exactly what I mean.

And you are not just behaving like that only to me. There are other users you pick on just the same way. And everyone, who disagrees with you, and got your special kind of feedback, is annoyed of the way you behave. And most importantly: They bloddy told you so! And you just ignore it. So sorry when I derail this thread but I needed to make this point here. Because I think this behaviour is one of the reasons, people are shying away from this forum, and call it toxic. And I hope that we talk in a better way, one day.

 

[Nauvran]

So do you really not understand why I am annoyed? Or do you just want to say, that the reason why I am annoyed is unjustified? And why can't you understand what an exageration is, like calling you trashtalker, when you call me homophobe and other names in other occastions?

I don't see a reason that you rate my recent posts negative, regardless of funny or disagree, at all when you tell me so anyway right in the following post under my post. Ofcourse, when I make a thread and you want to disagree with it, I don't care at all how you rate my OP, and I think it's all good. But when we talk like only with 3 guys in this thread just to each other, no one will remember in one week who got what ratings. Sir, why do you even need to use that rating when you actually reply to me right here in the thread? I certainly know that you disagree with me. This ratings are so you can safe your breath and don't need to type each time you disagre.

And I don't care for getting negative points so much, but I do care if someone is talking to me respectfully. And when you click on that funny button you say to me, that my posts are jokes.

I really think you don't want to talk serious and respectful about it. Since 6 weeks, everytime when I post stuff, you are one of that guys putting a funny rating under every second post of mine. Didn't you notice, that only like 5 guys on this forum even use funny? And half of them does it to imply that the opinion they rate is just a joke.

And you know that using funny instead of disagree is disrespectful. And you are doing it on so many posts of mine.

And what I find also disrespectful is, that the way you write is very often pretty agressive, including calling me homophobe and what do I know what you called me when you find a good occasion.

So with all the negative feedback I get from you, where is the reason here, that I should think, that you use the funny rating to do something good. No man, don't bullshit me, you want to sound negative with the funny ratings. Telling me differently is just dishonesty to further troll me.

So yeah. I think that the bias is justified. When you guys stop using this funny ratings so often we can take your opinions on biased moderation serious. But the only possibility for me right now, is to remember how you talk to me, and just ignore how you react to me until you one day might change. I certainly have no problem when people trashtalk me or spam rate me from time to time. But the way you do it? Nah man you know exactly what I mean.

And you are not just behaving like that only to me. There are other users you pick on just the same way. And everyone, who disagrees with you, and got your special kind of feedback, is annoyed of the way you behave. And most importantly: They bloddy told you so! And you just ignore it. So sorry when I derail this thread but I needed to make this point here. Because I think this behaviour is one of the reasons, people are shying away from this forum, and call it toxic. And I hope that we talk in a better way, one day.

you're being a bit of a hypocrite when you say all this and wont answer me when I ask for an explanation.
oh and then you go and rate my post funny when all Im doing is asking for an explanation.
Thats just a tad childish
[doublepost=1512404294,1512403354][/doublepost]JinM right so you're not going to answer?
why not though? Am I offending you with my questions about your actions and your personality?