Inter-faction cooperation

[happahappa]

Hello!

This has probably discussed at length already, but I'm not sure where to pick the thread up, so I start a new one.

At the moment you can't set specific permissions for other factions. You have either F or P for faction-only or public access. But what if you want to share a storage with a specific or several specific factions or built a ship or station together, without missing out on a faction module or setting public access.

You could have a special F-module, lets call it the sF-module, that you could use like the usual F module, but where you set a specific faction. And to be able to select multiple faction, you might use a sF-controller, that you place next to a block like the F-module, but then link it to as many sF-modules that are needed. As a special case, you could make the faction permission module linkable to the sF-controller, so you could share ships and stations, etc.

But there should be a rule that revokes the sF-permissions in case a war brakes out with the faction named in the module. Minimal diplomatic status should be neutral, or you cant set the faction or settings get reset in case the condition is not met. In any case is the owner of the permission module still the owner of the entity, so there should be motivation to balance the numbers of entities that are shared by the number of ownership relations (faction A owns X but shares it with B, faction B owns Y but shares it with A; that would be balanced).

So what do you think?

 

[Dr. Whammy]

I run a one-man faction and typically form alliances with other factions, so I'm going to run into this issue very soon as well. My proposed solution is to make extensive use of the new sensor and display block functions to create password protected doors; which in turn restrict access to storage and other blocks you want to share; which will be set to public permissions. I would then issue a general password to allies who are visiting my base. After a certain time limit or if the password is compromised I'll issue a new one.

In theory, the only way to break the security is with a torch; by physically cutting through multi-layer armor and blast doors. In my base, if that ever happens, my 'station security forces' will 'escort' them from the premises.

 

[happahappa]

i think its a fun way to 'restrict' access to storages, that by themselves have to have public access granted, in order to be accessable to friends, too, or other blocks like that, whose access you could restrict by 'physical' means (walls, doors, etc). but for that purpose, i'm not sure, if it is a reliable one. if a potential attacker could get a look at the logic, implementing this, it might be quite easy to deduce the password. for instance, you can look behind any wall by just spawning a core and go in its built mode. its very similiar to being in the built mode of the structure you want to penetrate. i think one way to reduce the risk of that, is to fill the empty space around the logic with blocks, so the whole group of blocks will be vissible only one the outside surface.
besides that you have the issues of sharing the password secretly, and all the problems that arise in that pre-shared-key scenario.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

True. The system will only be as secure as you make it. That includes hiding the password display correctly and sharing the code(s) with only your most trusted allies (no new recruits allowed) As far as sharing methods go; other players cannot see emails sent to a specific player; nor can they intercept a Skype call.

Your thoughts?

 

[happahappa]

I agree . And, as I said, it's fun . But it's not, what was intendend by my first post . It's not a general and efficent way to fine grade access, which the sF module and sF controller block was intended to.

 

[Scypio]

That includes hiding the password display correctly

If you use the password function it's all good.

 

[Lukwan]

This seems like a pretty important idea that relates to how humans interact on a server. There have been many requests for more faction-ranks and this suggestion may provide some solutions. People are unique and complex. Not everyone will want to join one of two arbitrary enemy factions in a classic red vs blue conflict. Galactic conflicts are not between individual faction-members but between nations, planets and solar-systems. The sides are usually composed of an alliance of smaller factions. Most importantly smaller factions may not have strong allegiances or may not want to continue in the grand war.

So...what is needed is method to allow more complex interactions between allies. Using an sF module should allow for different factions within an alliance to (selectively):

1) Create shared a 'Co-Build' storage so that both factions can access.
2) Allow access. (doors/lifts)
3) Define build-permissions within a limited area. (Use a definable radius from sF module to create an effect opposite to the build-inhibitor.)

Advantages to this system:

-Joining and leaving a faction requires a huge amount of effort to re-faction all your entities. During this process some of your entities will be vulnerable (having no faction-status while all the paperwork gets signed). However by allowing factions themselves to join and dissolve with each other (rather than their individual members) the process of re-factioning entities is not required.

-Allowing a faction to maintain it's status as a faction while working more closely with allies will improve the tools for large-scale faction-wars. Smaller mercenary factions could be wooed to join one side...then the other without any loss of autonomy. A construction-faction could exist that had the tools to hire-out for contract work for either side...or both. (Opportunities for spying as well.)

-Easier event planning. One-off battles, contests and tournaments would benefit from this tool. More freedom of interaction between players will create new modes of play. Many one-person factions would be able to work with others without giving up the security they have being a loner. Timid players may feel more comfortable playing within a faction if they knew they could leave without too many complications.

Loose Ends:

-Upon ending a faction/faction relationship there will remain questions of ownership of items that were co-built with materials from both parties and the ownership of those materials as well. Break-ups are always messy but this is no worse than the current situation.
-As https://starmadedock.net/members/happahappa.675685/has pointed out there may also be a war between former partners. Who gets the kids?

 

[nulitor]

"In theory, the only way to break the security is with a torch; by physically cutting through multi-layer armor and blast doors. In my base, if that ever happens, my 'station security forces' will 'escort' them from the premises."
Did you heard of quantum piercers?
There are ships I like to build they are simple to make: take one ship core then place it then add a single thruster to it then add a line of powergen(long so that the ship virtual size increase thus changing its physics calulations and also recharge the ship core) then remove that long line of powergen and there you have a ship that will have collision physics of a big ship(because it will not update that once it reached a big size once) and the collision box of a small ship and be really small and fast thus usually allowing to go through all the walls when at high speed.
So usually the solution to them is to have one big door filling everything so that there is no empty space when the door is closed(so that the person can not go inside the locked room and use stuff you do not want him to use)

 

[Dr. Whammy]

"In theory, the only way to break the security is with a torch; by physically cutting through multi-layer armor and blast doors. In my base, if that ever happens, my 'station security forces' will 'escort' them from the premises."
Did you heard of quantum piercers?
There are ships I like to build they are simple to make: take one ship core then place it then add a single thruster to it then add a line of powergen(long so that the ship virtual size increase thus changing its physics calulations and also recharge the ship core) then remove that long line of powergen and there you have a ship that will have collision physics of a big ship(because it will not update that once it reached a big size once) and the collision box of a small ship and be really small and fast thus usually allowing to go through all the walls when at high speed.
So usually the solution to them is to have one big door filling everything so that there is no empty space when the door is closed(so that the person can not go inside the locked room and use stuff you do not want him to use)

Two things...

1) If you're going to quote me, be a good sport and tag me... nulitor

2) Someone who relies on game glitches and exploits to get ahead in the game is going to become very unpopular online.

Just saying...

 

[JinM]

To the base torching: You can make build logic in your walls, that activate autofiring (not ai controlled) turrets to destroy torch ships or players. I mean if you play like that. I would not even like to be in a server where players are allowed to attack my base when I am not logged in, or where the rule "fighting and pvp has to stay fair" is treated like dust.

Some cool thing that some guy can create is a 3 times try password - the 4th wrong entered code intialises some defense mode or locks the password door.

Also, you can log the access: Give different guys different passwords, even the order they logged in is archivable. Just the time is not possible without problems.

Also, if you like to have a shared storage, just have a floating ship inside your base, that is walled off and can only be accessed by dudes who know the password.

Ofcourse a new block and game mechanic would be nice, but I like to argue about possibilites instead of missing stuff.

 

[nulitor]

Two things...

1) If you're going to quote me, be a good sport and tag me... nulitor

2) Someone who relies on game glitches and exploits to get ahead in the game is going to become very unpopular online.

Just saying...

Well I did not use it for gaining stuff ever.
Just for visiting stuff.
(I mean there is tons of player who make a super beautiful RP base nobody ever visits)

 

[Nickizzy]

'escort' them from the premises.

By way of respawn screen:p?

I like this idea, and A-module that allows you to set permissions for allied factions. So you'd have 1allies, 2allies, 3allies, and 4allies. And the founder would be the actual faction. Just some UI changes and a different if-then function.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

By way of respawn screen:p?

You betcha...