How to add more interesting exploration...by using entity generation code!?

[Asvarduil]

As a long time player/tester/whatever of StarMade, one of my key complaints about the game has been a paradox: this game generates entire frickin' galaxies...yet, there's little to actually explore. All planets are notable because of mineral deposits, and, frankly, why bother? Asteroids have more, and when mined out, regenerate.

I didn't post this topic to continue complaining; I'm posting this, because after stewing over this for months, I've come up with a prospective solution. In the current game, we have everything needed to improve exploration of the galaxies; Schema doesn't really have to add much of anything, except block content (which, the community can source!)

What Do We Have?
In this game, the main mechanic is building ships (and sometimes, stations.) Schema put a lot of work in roughly a year or so ago with the Shipyards - a multi-block structure that, given the correct blocks, can let you design, build, and replicate ships as you see fit. This is a key system in my proposed improvement of StarMade's exploration.

The game also features stations and planets. "Good job noticing, Captain Obvious!" some may say, but this is actually really important. These are things that a player would want to land on and explore. A derelict station might have anything, really, from apocalyptic logs, to abandoned starships, to deranged sentinel robots. Planets are capable of being any size, really, based on config settings, but even a r100 planet can take a while to fully explore.

We also have the new factions. These factions don't yet have quests - something on the much-touted roadmap - but these factions do have a distinctive style.

We also have a community that comes up with designs both derivative of existing sci-fi franchises, but also completely original designs. These original designs are another key in how we're going to Make StarMade Exploration Great Again!

#MSMEGA
This is where the world-generator comes in.

Pretty much, upon generating a planet, we need an extra bit of code to overwrite parts of a segment, with a structure - a mini-dungeon, or something. In this dungeon is a chest with a Design for a new ship. Alternatively, there could also be an un-factioned ship docked somewhere that the player can get into and fly off in, or just salvage as they see fit.

Existing stations would need a rework, but this is purely a content thing this time. Currently, stations that generate in galaxies are based on pre-Rails update designs. Those designs would need to be retired in favor of newer designs that feature a loot chest, or docked unowned ships. Given that servers already have custom stations and custom ships, we have this point of the suggestion already doable with no extra work from Schema; we'd just need the updated station/ship designs included with the game proper.

Lastly, let's talk ships. Currently, the default ships consist mostly of Isanths...but they aren't very interesting, or held in great esteem. Instead, a community competition for unique, one-off designs could be held to determine which Designs or 'free' ships that can be taken, are found. I'm not sure if Isanths have a place in the game or not, but generally speaking, they're not considered to be awesome ships, and I'd be happy for them to go away in favor of more interesting designs.

Lastly, I brought up killer robots. When an AI change happens, I'd be open to having multi-block automated robots in some bases that don't appear on ship scanners, but that a player on foot would have to use their weaponry to deal with, to add extra danger to exploration. After all, why would we want to just give the player anything without making them work for it? You could even go one better, assuming you want to add something to the game, and make the robots drop a block that lets you build your own undetectable sentry bot!

Also, per Xskyth - those darn spiders that used to sometimes appear on stations. Those are something that already exist that could be used to guard loot chests, or be enemies in microdungeons.

Conclusion
Even if no one wants to touch the world generator, there's still all sorts of cool stuff that could be done to the content of the game to make exploration more interesting. We have huge, procedurally generated galaxies...to me, it's a supreme waste that the only legitimate question a player can ask is, "Where's the ores?" Let's put our awesome, creative community to work, retire older pre-made content, and make this game a much more interesting place to play in.

 

[Xskyth]

whatever happened to the space spiders? they made boarding abandoned stations more interesting. if they were added back in and were say, guarding a loot chest or two?

 

[Asvarduil]

whatever happened to the space spiders? they made boarding abandoned stations more interesting. if they were added back in and were say, guarding a loot chest or two?

You actually just made me think of something, editing.

 

[jayman38]

Unfortunately, as Yahtzee pontificated upon in his review for No Man's Sky, there's only so much you can get from procedural content in a procedurally generated universe of any significant size. In short, yeah, it may take a while to find the same "species", but you'll run into the same stuff eventually, and the game has all the same root elements as ingredients. (Blocks, materials, recipes....)

The key concept that I feel Yahtzee nailed in his review was that while the alien species might have been somewhat unique (needing enough deodorant for 9 armpits and so on), the core underlying principles (behavior A or B, predictable salvage, ultimately not really different from other species) are not unique, so that while these randomly generated elements may look different, they actually "feel" the same to the player.

So you actually end up with wasting a lot of effort on a brilliant system that doesn't really do much to actually improve the player experience.

Instead, I'd recommend embracing the "sameness" across the universe and focus on a procedurally generated mission/quest system, preferably with branching relationships between missions, so that while everything looks the same, it "feels" different, depending on what the player is called upon to do.

Example:
In one mission, you might be tasked with scanning a cruiser.
In the next, you might be tasked with destroying an enemy strike group that was planning to destroy that cruiser.
Then you might end up taking some cargo (repair equipment, personnel, whatever) and landing inside that cruiser with it.
Finally, you might end up being tasked with destroying the cruiser. In the mean time, you, the player, have developed a "relationship" with this cruiser, thinking and expecting that it will continue on in some way, but shocked to find it so easily discarded.

Another example:
In one mission, you might be called upon to scan a planet by getting within a couple of sectors of it.
After scanning, you receive a new mission: your scan revealed evidence of a civilization on the far side. You will verify by landing at the landing area indicated by some kind of beacon.
After landing, you receive another mission: leave the ship and explore the alien base/city/pyramid/whatever.
After entering the facility or getting wtihin a certain distance of some core/treasure/enemy/whatever, your new mission is to survive the laser spiders or whatever else comes at you.
At this point, survival might mean just destroying the threat, or maybe you are given a more complex mission to simply escape without harming the threat, so that a capture team can be sent, which might kick off another series of missions to protect that capture mission.
Anyway, after surviving, and getting the salvaged log book or alien blood or whatever from the enemy, your new mission is to come back to some station or ship or something with the salvage or treasure so it can be studied.

Branching missions that mess with player expectation (protect, then destroy; or aggro then escape) are a great way to add interest.

To illustrate how missions can branch differently, after scanning the planet, your next mission is to rendezvous with an assault cruiser at a nearby sector by simply going there.
The next mission is to simply get back to that planet as fast as you can.
Once you arrive, your next mission is to obliterate the site by annihilating some random number of beacons. The assault cruiser simply follows you.
So maybe a city is only considered adequately assaulted if 9 or 10 random "beacon" blocks are obliterated. It's your choice to surgically strike these beacons or wipe the whole site off the face of the planet, while the assault cruiser is simultaneously bombing the site from orbit.

 

[Asvarduil]

Unfortunately, as Yahtzee pontificated upon in his review for No Man's Sky, there's only so much you can get from procedural content in a procedurally generated universe of any significant size. In short, yeah, it may take a while to find the same "species", but you'll run into the same stuff eventually, and the game has all the same root elements as ingredients. (Blocks, materials, recipes....)

The key concept that I feel Yahtzee nailed in his review was that while the alien species might have been somewhat unique (needing enough deodorant for 9 armpits and so on), the core underlying principles (behavior A or B, predictable salvage, ultimately not really different from other species) are not unique, so that while these randomly generated elements may look different, they actually "feel" the same to the player.

...missions...

First, totally not dismissing the RNG mission setup. I think that's a creative, brilliant way to add things to do to the game. It's just outside of this suggestion. I think this needs to be its own topic; you should write that topic. I'd upvote in an instant.

You're right about No Man's Sky, too - the RNG can only do so much before things start looking/feeling familiar. That being said, at least there would be something to look for. Right now, we don't even have that (besides "Where's the ores!?") At present, we're literally building ships for no reason (except for mining ships, or their souped-up bigger cousins, world-eaters.)

The reason Designs feature in my suggestion is so that we players get the following loop:

1. Build a ship that lets us explore
2. Explore
3. Find something interesting (planet with microdungeon, space station)
4. Board the thing and look around
5. Find something that we have to solve (enemy, puzzle, whatever.)
6. Get a design
7. Take design back to base
8. Get materials for design
9. Build design
10. Try design out; see if you like it.
11. Go to 2.

You could argue there's two loops going on in this - the exploration loop (2-4), and the build ships loop (8-10), which already feature prominently in this game's design. You'd be correct. The point of having something to explore is to create the pattern of play as above, which is more interesting than just 'mine until I can build something else' or 'look around until I get bored'; you're alternating between two different activities, instead of repeating one or the other ad nauseum.