Planned Global Skins

[Valiant70]

Absolutely no microtransactions, please.

 

[Lecic]

Absolutely no microtransactions, please.

Can I ask why?

 

[Valiant70]

Can I ask why?

1. They have a bad reputation.
2. They're ugly/bad marketing due to their reputation.
3. They're unnecessary. Give a full feature set and factor the cost into purchase price. It's a more elegant solution.
4. I just hate microtransactions (and I'm not alone).

 

[RabidBat]

Preventing people from potentially being able to upload viruses to a server is a waste of time? lol, k

Good luck getting a .png file to execute as.... well an executable or script on a server. I have been asking around and cannot find anyone with facts who can tell me a starmade skin virus is even a thing let alone possible.

Plus nearly every game I have played since the 90's allowed players to upload skins e.g Quake 2,Unreal Tournament, never seen any server gettaken down by a skin/image upload. Also, what happens with that skin on a 3 slot server? It then gets transferred to the server, so either way the skin is there, and hey that skin server might have antivirus, but things are, anti viruses arelike cops, they only fix the problem after the crime has happened. This is why viruses exist to begin with, because you cannot code fixes until the problem exists.
Avast, Nortons, etc, don't have a virus crystal ball :p

I dunno so many myths with this game, like "salvage beam numbers cause lag" um no they don't that is the badly designed planets with their overlapping blocks and bugged out gravity and how the game handles calculating blocks being moved around. (well maybe they do cause lag when you get into an insane amount of beams like the millions?)
From what I can tell virus skins is just one more myth.

But yes, in other games I have seen the 'skin virus" myth doing the rounds and way back when a myth is all they turned out to be also.
By all means I like being educated, so I encourage people to provide me hard facts that it is possible and then hard facts how a slot server will 110% counter the threat if it is real.

Either way I just feel better things Schine could be focused and working on right now.

Seriously waiting for another major weapons and systems rebalance so we can all flush our ships down the toilet and start again and again and again.

Time to lock the base mechanics in and begin making an actual game.

 

[DukeofRealms]

Put some polls or more regular news on the launcher.

We're working on a new launcher, council integration is planned (which means polls and feedback from users from the launcher). https://trello.com/c/Wz1a4DT4/19-new-launcher

 

[Valck]

Good luck getting a .png file to execute as.... well an executable or script on a server. I have been asking around and cannot find anyone with facts who can tell me a starmade skin virus is even a thing let alone possible.

It's possible in theory and has happened in the past, do a search on "png|jpg|gif vulnerability" and you'll find a few.
In practice I agree, the chances of getting a virus through Starmade that you didn't already get via other channels is pretty slim IMO. Minecraft users would need to be concerned about getting a "skin virus" in Minecraft, which has a much larger user base, and I haven't heard anything remotely believable like that yet, much less from reliable sources. It's much simpler and thus more likely that some mod author pulls off shenanigans, than someone meticulously crafting a malicious image file in the hopes to hurt that one person with that unpatched Java version from 2004...
Something to keep in mind though, with Minecraft also being written in Java, should someone find a "skin exploit" there, the same vulnerability might exist in SM as well. I'm pretty certain that would make big news quickly, so again, I don't see a more serious threat there than browsing the net in general.

Distributing the skins via a content delivery network might give an (improbable) additional step to find and contain such a thing before it does much damage, but I doubt this in itself warrants the effort that needs to be put into that.

EDIT:
In fact, not saying there are any, but I'd be more concerned about vulnerabilities in that new launcher... or as I said above, with mods, once they become a more common thing ;)

 

[Lecic]

I dunno so many myths with this game, like "salvage beam numbers cause lag"

Uh... Yes, they do. You can test this yourself by setting up a big beam waffleboard.

 

[RabidBat]

It's possible in theory and has happened in the past, do a search on "png|jpg|gif vulnerability" and you'll find a few.

Yeah I have searched and talked to people, while not impossible, it's very improbable as you said.
It's been around for years, but again simple to fix with uploaded skins getting a recode before hitting the server would remove or disable any malicious code, even then you'd need something in the game designed to activate said virus/hack encoded in the file highly unlikely the skin itself would could do anythingon it's own. There are essentially a billion other and much easier ways to get a virus or something nasty on a server than trying to do so through a .png file from what I have seen. Then again Java...... just saying many other games have swapped engines mid development before...... :p

Uh... Yes, they do. You can test this yourself by setting up a big beam waffleboard.

I have and it is fine and I did say maybe when you get to unrealistic levels of beam arrays they can be a problem. But from my testing, it's planets that are the biggest cause of issues themselves, regardless of beam count. Down to the way blocks overlap at the seams, and hopefully something that will be fixed soon, but anyways that is getting off topic so I'll leave that discussion for another thread as wes hould keep this about skins and server slots.

 

[SomethingSlimy]

Yikes, don't even think about going down the microtransaction route. It doesn't matter how well intentioned you are, the microtransaction well has been poisoned for a long time, and new players will only see this as bad news.

Look at the top Steam reviews for Payday 2 if you've been living under a rock and don't believe that people backlash against this kind of thing.

 

[Lecic]

Personally, I think anyone opposed to this simply because "microtransactions have a bad rap" is being irrational.

 

[SomethingSlimy]

Personally, I think anyone opposed to this simply because "microtransactions have a bad rap" is being irrational.

I also happen to be against microtransactions personally, so as far as I'm concerned, your argument falls completely flat. And how would not factoring in people's general dislike for microtransactions be any more rational?

 

[Lecic]

I also happen to be against microtransactions personally, so as far as I'm concerned, your argument falls completely flat. And how would not factoring in people's general dislike for microtransactions be any more rational?

Oh, I wasn't saying accounting for general microtransaction dislike is a bad idea. I just think the people who are opposed to this for seemingly no reason other than "they're microtransactions and microtransactions are bad!" are being irrational.

 

[faylew1012]

My main issue is I'm not good enough to do a decent skin so I wouldn't buy any extra slots mainly because of that. If kupu or other talented people uploaded some awesome skins I might buy a slot or two for the convenience of easily swapping them out.

Just my 2 cents

 

[nightrune]

Yeah I'm fine with a small fee for something like that. Definitely don't impede gameplay with it, but as someone that as already put 300+ hours into starmade, and as a small software contractor I know the need for money and to continue to eat. I'm trying to find more ways to give these guys money. Hell I think I would even work for them (If they would hire me, Let me know guys :D). I even think a $1 a month would cover most of the CDN costs per person. If you have a 10,000 person player base, if only 5% of them subscribe you get $500 USD per month gross. Minus taxes you are looking at $400 a month, and you still probably make a health profit.

Making money isn't a bad thing, its when you get greedy with that profit that it becomes bad. I think the registry is a great way for Schine to offer more value over the long term without comprimising the base gameplay.

 

[NeonSturm]

Example:

• 300€ computer / 3 years = 100€ a year.
• 20€ internet connection / month = 240€ a year.
• 10€ star-made * 12 games a year = 120€ a year.
• 4€ micro-transactions per game *12 games bought in a year = 48€ per year.

PC+internet is transparent. There you can expect a human to make correct decisions of how much he wants to spend.

• I think players shouldn't pay more than 1/2 money of PC+internet for games that don't fully satisfy them.

That makes it dependent on how much time a players spends playing StarMade and how much he pays for his PC in general.

• The more he spends, the more you can request without turning him down.
• The more he spends on his PC, the more the software can demand from him without costs being seen as too high.

Therefore, it would make more sense to pay for high graphic details (higher end hardware) and online-time (everybody could get some free).

Of-course a player can use multiple accounts, but that makes management of ingame resources and player-interactions much harder too.

From what I witnessed, the more microtransactions are advertised the more negative backlash they recieve. Although you might want to get a second opinion on this.

Agree.
I am ready to pay 1/2 my computers cost in the time I am using it and another 1/2 for open-source projects under a free license.
But StarMade makes it extremely difficult to pay except you are registering for another service called "Pay Pal" which I currently need for nothing else.

Let's be honest, anyone would do it. Notch was offered 1 BILLION for minecraft, do you really think anyone could say no?

This however is a very real threat, and does need to be considered if this system is indeed implemented.

Let me rephrase it then... nobody thought anyone would be crazy enough to offer 2.5 billion (from what I have heard)...
And even if I would resist, if M$ decides to then feed those 2.5B to their lawyers, how long would you think anyone could continue their "minecraft"?

Microsoft gets more benefit from ruining or capturing popular software than by making own things better.

That is why monopole-holding companies are either inherently evil or not being responsible about it.​

(Skype for example plays a proper role in some countries education and bugged updates for Linux after MS took over)

If somebody keeps 3 years of development under his own hood, nobody else has a chance to catch up without re-inventing the wheel.
Even worse, in that time he wouldn't make any money because somebody else captures the potential player-base.​

The right choice of Notch would have been to offer it GPL-licensed (or a similar license) as soon as any source of money accumulates 500'000€ +.

Micro-transactions for anything approaching in-game functionality of any kind is something to be avoided at all costs, IMO. While originally it was cool to have vanity stuff as micro-trans, greedy developers poisoned the well for them.

Micro-transactions for things at launch are even worse. I don't mind buying DLC for things that simply weren't in the game to begin with because either there wasn't time to get them in, or because somebody realized it would be cool to add something nobody thought of at the time. Thats great, thats me getting more mileage out of games I already have while still making the creation of said content financially viable for the producer.

But this "Oh, we actually have the data on the disc, but you have to pay us more to use it" stuff represents the WORST kind of mentality in the gaming market right now. I would rather see a game cost me $45 and come with X, then have the game be $40 and have X be a $5 DLC. I know that logically its the same overall price, but emotionally it feels like a bait and switch.

I have an idea for acceptable micro-transactions, but I think I'm going to make my own thread for that.

Agree

Now this is really going off topic, but that's why using three-letter file extensions to do anything except indicate the intended use to the user is so wrong that I can't even begin to figure out who thought that would be a good idea. A proper OS should have other ways to determine the contents of a file (hint: man 1 file) for its internal purposes... but even proper OSes nowadays have file browsers and whatnot that use that sick and broken method.[/rant]

Agree here too. File names are just the easiest thing to edit from any program, command-line editor or browser.
You stick with what is easy to handle (few files) and supported by the majority.

 

[Lukwan]

Three skins seems like plenty to me. I personally don't have have an issue with selling a couple extra to cover costs as this does not affect the game-play.

 

[NeonSturm]

Until you have crew.
I really can't understand how they cause so much network traffic that we have to talk about this as an issue.

Blueprints can be larger and skins haven't even an optimized compression jet (switch-able parts of a skin, pixel density of various parts, ...).

I am really for a size-limit per player rather than a number limit. That would encourage players to make smaller files + ultra-HD variations for the paying ones.

 

[Croquelune]

In French we call that une usine à gaz (that idiom means "a very complex and/or vain system to produce futile things").

For now, I don't even care about 1 skin.
So fill 3 skins => lol
Pay an extra slot in order to easy skin swapping => lmao
A feature in order to be able to have same skin on chinese server, EU, or NA => Just wtf !? Don't feel the need to be in 36 000 servers around the world. It's useless, imo. I don't even see the point to choose more than 2-3 servers.

Seriously I'm WAY more concerned by cameras's problems which are a REAL pain in the ass of players and because its real threatening to the game playability like :

• https://starmadedock.net/threads/make-freelook-angles-relative-to-the-ship.22540/
• https://starmadedock.net/threads/build-mode-camera-respect-pola-adopt-gyroscopic-free-camera.7210/
• https://starmadedock.net/threads/a-proper-3rd-person-view-aka-chasecam.58/

than futile and optional esthetic decision like this suggestion. You should report that kind of brainstorming at the end of the developpement. Like we say : ne pas mettre la charrue avant les bœufs (do not put the cart before the horses). And I think that exactly what you do now by planning that kind of stuff so early, this game isn't even close to be complete, to be frank it isn't even really playable.

Complete and finish the game, then sell it. And think about that kind of stuff during the bêta.
What the point to purchase accessory to an empty shell ? Because for now, even with all potiential that game has and all your good faith, this game is unplayable in long term. Even if I love it, love its concept I just can't enjoy that game and can't recommend it cause of that shitty build stucked camera and that shitty non flexible GUI. Solve that 2 things and that game will earn 70% of its playability (I would say 300% but it's too personnal view I guess).

 

[NeonSturm]

A feature in order to be able to have same skin on chinese server, EU, or NA => Just wtf !?

It's not about the server location but about the user location (which DL skins).

 

[Waterphoenix]

Imo limit to 3, but if you didn't then i would prpbably pay around £3-£4 for another skin slot.