Planned Global Skins

[Blaza612]

The only caveat I see with introducing stuff like this is you'd need additional connections to authentication servers that decide whether or not you are allowed to switch skins, or possibly in a future evolution of this concept, spawn blueprint X, or use block Z.

• What happens when that auth server is down, unreachable, or (heavens forbid) permanently taken off the net because [insert big bucks here] bought Schine and decided it's not worth it any longer or you can only sign up if you have their iBoxStationU account?
• Who controls the auth server?
• Who controls the user data?

At the moment, should the SMRegistry become unreachable for whatever reason, single player and game servers would be able to continue, albeit without user verification. White-/Blacklists by name and IP would still continue to work.
It all depends on how deeply this is integrated with the registry, and whether the game would still continue to function without third-party infrastructure (third party here meaning not game server operator nor game client user).

As long as Schine are the ones in control, I don't care much either way; however there is always the possibility of someone pulling a Notch - dissing EA, and M$ for Windows8, and then selling out to that very scourge of indy development... not that I think Schema would, but nobody thought Persson would, either.

Let's be honest, anyone would do it. Notch was offered 1 BILLION for minecraft, do you really think anyone could say no?

This however is a very real threat, and does need to be considered if this system is indeed implemented.

 

[Valck]

Let's be honest, anyone would do it. Notch was offered 1 BILLION for minecraft, do you really think anyone could say no?

Let me rephrase it then... nobody thought anyone would be crazy enough to offer 2.5 billion (from what I have heard)...
And even if I would resist, if M$ decides to then feed those 2.5B to their lawyers, how long would you think anyone could continue their "minecraft"?

 

[Blaza612]

Let me rephrase it then... nobody thought anyone would be crazy enough to offer 2.5 billion (from what I have heard)...
And even if I would resist, if M$ decides to then feed those 2.5B to their lawyers, how long would you think anyone could continue their "minecraft"?

Exactly. Thus this does need to be considered. :P

 

[Valck]

Funny coincidences are funny...

Spoiler: As of 2015-09-20 11:44:50 UTC

The Citizen's Registry (StarMade's account system) is currently down. Unfortunately, until this comes back online, logins for the forum will not work.

...nor will logins to the game.

QED.

 

[Lecic]

or possibly in a future evolution of this concept, spawn blueprint X, or use block Z.

...What? Why would they make it so you need to check if you're allowed to use a block, or spawn a blueprint? That doesn't make the slightest sense.

 

[Valck]

...What? Why would they make it so you need to check if you're allowed to use a block, or spawn a blueprint? That doesn't make the slightest sense.

Seriously?

Just to reiterate, if we can have skins to choose from, game servers need a way to determine which skins, and whether you have bought more than the three free ones, which is done by contacting (presumably) the Registry.

Similarly this concept could be expanded to allow cosmetic blocks, like faction insignia or the like; or special "limited edition" blueprints. Those were just some ideas that came to mind immediately, I bet creative minds can come up with many more ways to utilize the basic mechanism once it is in place.

As I said, I'm not against it as long as it is done in a way that ensures game servers can continue to work if that mechanism fails, for whatever reason.

 

[Lecic]

Similarly this concept could be expanded to allow cosmetic blocks, like faction insignia or the like; or special "limited edition" blueprints. Those were just some ideas that came to mind immediately, I bet creative minds can come up with many more ways to utilize the basic mechanism once it is in place.

Ah, alright, that makes sense.

Yeah, any features that require checking with an external server would obviously not work if that server was down. Maybe there should still be an option for server owners to let people upload skins (or custom faction insignias and such) to the server itself, so people can still have skins even if the servers for skin hosting are down?

Limited Edition blueprints will probably never happen, though. Even if you have some sort of special, non-removable block that prevents the saving of a BP, you can still just copy the ship by hand.

 

[Valck]

Limited Edition blueprints will probably never happen, though. Even if you have some sort of special, non-removable block that prevents the saving of a BP, you can still just copy the ship by hand.

Again, not saying Schine would use such a scheme, but adding a unique identifier to the core block of a ship would be trivial, and ensure that any new blueprints could only be created or spawned if and when you have been authorized by the authentication server.
[DOUBLEPOST=1442775630,1442775299][/DOUBLEPOST]Actually any block could be checked if you are allowed to use this block ID, and if a presumed limited edition ship had limited blocks, you simply couldn't place them.

 

[DukeofRealms]

Funny coincidences are funny...

...nor will logins to the game.

QED.

http://venturebeat.com/2015/09/20/amazons-aws-outage-takes-down-netflix-reddit-medium-and-more/

 

[Valck]

http://venturebeat.com/2015/09/20/amazons-aws-outage-takes-down-netflix-reddit-medium-and-more/

Interesting, not sure though what you're telling me. I never said Schine is to blame for the Registry being unreachable, just that it proved my earlier point.

If even a giant like Amazon can't guarantee the availability of their services, that's just the more reason to have some kind of fallback mechanism in place in case parts of the net decide to take their time out.
Game server-side whitelists for user authorization are one such mechanism, and I hope Schine will consider a similar kind of fallback for the planned skins and other services, so that at least the basic features (skin upload as it is now) remain available while auth servers are unreachable.
Another use case would be an isolated LAN - running a server and clients connecting "locally" should always be possible, without the need for contacting third parties.

 

[DukeofRealms]

Interesting, not sure though what you're telling me. I never said Schine is to blame for the Registry being unreachable, just that it proved my earlier point.

If even a giant like Amazon can't guarantee the availability of their services, that's just the more reason to have some kind of fallback mechanism in place in case parts of the net decide to take their time out.
Game server-side whitelists for user authorization are one such mechanism, and I hope Schine will consider a similar kind of fallback for the planned skins and other services, so that at least the basic features (skin upload as it is now) remain available while auth servers are unreachable.
Another use case would be an isolated LAN - running a server and clients connecting "locally" should always be possible, without the need for contacting third parties.

Aye, if the Citizen Registry goes down, it's to be expected that authenticating/logging in will no longer work.

Below is purely my own opinion.

I agree with your points, I think there should be a fallback method. As with most things in the game, I would suspect the global skins would be configurable in the config. Users probably would be able to choose between global skins or upload to server (as it is now). The worst case scenario, would be that the skin service goes down, so users would have to revert to uploading to the server once again.

 

[shadowulf]

I know I'm a bit late, but id like to point something out. Evolve was a bad choice to quote here, as it has some stark differences to this case. One, the day 1 DLC argument is valid, especially from AAA companies such as EA. It implies the developers of that game didn't put in the feature, instead making it a paid/preorder only feature. That's just money grubbing and should be avoided. That's not what's happening here. They are implementing ANOTHER feature that will have cost for them(however small, look at their costs in time/money into this game), and by making it so you can pay a few bucks to be lazy and not switch out a skin to add one they add a small bit to their cash stream, allowing them to keep developing an amazing game, and also catering to that small amount of people that lazy.

Warning: Personal Opinion
Please do be careful, Schine. Micro transactions are dangerous as of late. I don't mind their addition (as a game developer in infancy right now I understand the need for revenue) but please don't affect playability at all, even faction logos are a bit sketchy for me, but I could see buying a limited edition blueprint Schema himself designed, or a 3d model of my favorite creation. Use Happy Wars(Xbox 360 arcade) as an example of good microtransaction system, and Dragon Atlas(in-browser PC game) as a bad example.

 

[Edymnion]

Micro-transactions for anything approaching in-game functionality of any kind is something to be avoided at all costs, IMO. While originally it was cool to have vanity stuff as micro-trans, greedy developers poisoned the well for them.

Micro-transactions for things at launch are even worse. I don't mind buying DLC for things that simply weren't in the game to begin with because either there wasn't time to get them in, or because somebody realized it would be cool to add something nobody thought of at the time. Thats great, thats me getting more mileage out of games I already have while still making the creation of said content financially viable for the producer.

But this "Oh, we actually have the data on the disc, but you have to pay us more to use it" stuff represents the WORST kind of mentality in the gaming market right now. I would rather see a game cost me $45 and come with X, then have the game be $40 and have X be a $5 DLC. I know that logically its the same overall price, but emotionally it feels like a bait and switch.

I have an idea for acceptable micro-transactions, but I think I'm going to make my own thread for that.

 

[<SCRIPTKITTY>]

Why not just have 3? If people can switch the 3 out on the starmade registry to change them they will instead of paying.

Also.. servers can turn skins off making having skins in the first place a little bit useless...

This may be off-topic but is or isn't the current skin system flawed. It may be paranoia but in my regular talks with a server admin I was wondering why he had skins on the server disabled (It's annoying since my game tries to upload mine every time I log on ntm everyone looking the same.) He told me the nature of the skin .smskin file allows people to archive whatever they want inside it and upload it as a skin so they could possibly have uploaded an executable and thus a virus that downloads to your computer when you look at them. Is this even possible or just distrusting server admin paranoia?

 

[Valck]

This may be off-topic but is or isn't the current skin system flawed. It may be paranoia but in my regular talks with a server admin I was wondering why he had skins on the server disabled (It's annoying since my game tries to upload mine every time I log on ntm everyone looking the same.) He told me the nature of the skin .smskin file allows people to archive whatever they want inside it and upload it as a skin so they could possibly have uploaded an executable and thus a virus that downloads to your computer when you look at them. Is this even possible or just distrusting server admin paranoia?

A valid skin file is basically a zip archive containing four images, however you can stuff whatever you want in there, and upload it to the server. However there are at least basic checks in place server-side, and even if the server sent that 'bad' skin back to anyone (which I doubt it does, but haven't tested yet), it would still be an archive, and unless you unpacked it, and tried to 'run' the image files, barring any bugs in the image reader library, you should be reasonably safe.

 

[Megacrafter127]

and tried to 'run' the image files, barring any bugs in the image reader library, you should be reasonably safe.

Depends. the file-browser usually detects the mimetype using the name-suffix of the file [what comes after the '.']. When the computer is supposed to open a file though, it checks the first bytes of the file, which usually contain the mimetype.[hence renaming 'virus.exe' to 'report.pdf' will fool windows into running the virus if you try to open it by double-clicking on it(trying to open it from within a PDF-reader will simply result in an error though)].

 

[Valck]

Depends. the file-browser usually detects the mimetype using the name-suffix of the file [what comes after the '.']. When the computer is supposed to open a file though, it checks the first bytes of the file, which usually contain the mimetype.[hence renaming 'virus.exe' to 'report.pdf' will fool windows into running the virus if you try to open it by double-clicking on it(trying to open it from within a PDF-reader will simply result in an error though)].

Now this is really going off topic, but that's why using three-letter file extensions to do anything except indicate the intended use to the user is so wrong that I can't even begin to figure out who thought that would be a good idea. A proper OS should have other ways to determine the contents of a file (hint: man 1 file) for its internal purposes... but even proper OSes nowadays have file browsers and whatnot that use that sick and broken method.[/rant]

 

[Gunmetalmonk]

I have been playing mmos since Ultima Online. I have never had a problem with a monthly charge. I have no idea what the plans are for the pricing model of this game. I would not have a problem with a monthly charge. Perhaps have different service levels tied to in-game services like extra skin storage. You have a valid point on the cost associated with storage and delivery.

I despise the FTP model now used by most mmos. It breaks the game into social economic tiers. Those with the most disposable income dominate. I prefer my mmos to be on a level playing field. So please don't go that route.

 

[RabidBat]

Honestly I am going to have to add this to the list of waste of time focus for development ideas, like retexturing blocks that don't need it , renaming ores because purple and heaven forbid space whales
Sure there's the we need something to keep 2D and 3D artists or whatever busy apparently, but it seriously only takes two seconds now to swap out your skin client side (When a server even allows you to use skins that is) and the upload is so small it takes amoment to get your new skin uploaded. And maybe give those out of work staff something more constructive and progress making to do perhaps?

Feels lik a waste of time seriously, and I am one of those who hates anything microtransactions and especially cosmetic DLC. Joys of being an old school gamer I guess, where mods and making your own skins for free were the norm. Not adverse to buying substantial content expansion packs though. Paid slots etc would turn me off the game for sure along with recommending it.

Sure I paid $10usd for this game and have bought a few copies for friends, but hey I like every one else am also play testing it, something that usedto cost dvelopers a bunch and like many Alpha games the price will go up as the game comes closer to being a full release, or has new features added according to the Steam Page, there was no mention of subscriptions or DLC's or microtransactions etc. I feel like I have already paid enough both in time and money and future time.

Tell you what though, other ways to make money, sell me a StarMade T-shirt, offer a "Get a 3D printed model of your ship service", something that feels like I am getting monies worth if I chooseto throw more cash at the devs.

Honestly seeing these kindsof ideas pisses me off considering the shambles the game currently is, with every patch seemingly fixing one thing and breaking another, I think Schines time money and resources would be better spent focusing on just getting the base game complete and stable and adding actual content than looking at servers that host small image files.
Fix the AI, test the game properly, if you notice the AI is once more broken, hold off on that patch until it is fixed or release a hot fix instead of leaving us hanging and wondering if maybe the next patch will fix it again and when that patch will come out, same for weapon. Start trying out adding missions, fix AI crew members. Make assigning AI ships you want easier. And about a billion other things that should take precedent over skin slots and space whales at this point.

I mean I wonder why things so broken make it through to releases, then I see these ideas and I begin to know why, because peoples minds are elsewhere on the wrong things. Maybe rely lesson forums feedback, like most gamesI play, for every 100 people I meet playing a game only 1 of them is on the forums offering an opinion. Put some polls or more regular news on the launcher. Like this idea. 90% of your players will never even have an idea tis is even a thing let alone up for discussion.
Seriously it is forums I have found that ruin many a good game. Indie or AAA. You cannot takeone forums posters opinion and multiply it by X amount of other players not on the forums to say "okay 10 people like it here, so that must mean 10000 people not on the forums must liek it too", despite it being a popular method in polls, studies and such elsewhere, it's asflawed there useage wise as it is in game development.

Don't get me wrong, I love StarMade and support the development whole heartedly, but it feels like Schine is all over the place with the direction it's going and execution of it.

Been playing a bit over a year now, I'd like something more to do now than mine buggy planets and build ships and wonder when and how the AI factions will be broken again.
Give us a game, not skin slots on a server somewhere. I often see players leave in droves for lack of gameplay, returning when an update comes hoping for some massive addition, only to leave again when additions are more bugs and nonsense ideas.

Heck if you do not have jobs for those not currently working on the game then say "thanks but time to go, leave your number and we'll call when and if we have more work.".
I know when the people I do work for have nothing for me to do, they don't just make stuff up to keep me busy.
Hey that websites complete and needs no more work, but hey Rabid please make another we don't need just so you have something to do......

Seriously you got something with a lot of potential here with StarMade, don't get caught in the traps many other developeers and companies do. Get the game working. Add gameplay. Make it stable, then worry about the stupid crap like skins and making it an intergalactic green peace simulator. I bought into a space exploration and combat game and not a lego simulator didn't I?

/rant

 

[Lecic]

Honestly I am going to have to add this to the list of waste of time focus for development ideas, like retexturing blocks that don't need it , renaming ores because purple and heaven forbid space whales
Sure there's the we need something to keep 2D and 3D artists or whatever busy apparently, but it seriously only takes two seconds now to swap out your skin client side (When a server even allows you to use skins that is) and the upload is so small it takes amoment to get your new skin uploaded. And maybe give those out of work staff something more constructive and progress making to do perhaps?

Feels lik a waste of time seriously, and I am one of those who hates anything microtransactions and especially cosmetic DLC. Joys of being an old school gamer I guess, where mods and making your own skins for free were the norm. Not adverse to buying substantial content expansion packs though. Paid slots etc would turn me off the game for sure along with recommending it.

Sure I paid $10usd for this game and have bought a few copies for friends, but hey I like every one else am also play testing it, something that usedto cost dvelopers a bunch and like many Alpha games the price will go up as the game comes closer to being a full release, or has new features added according to the Steam Page, there was no mention of subscriptions or DLC's or microtransactions etc. I feel like I have already paid enough both in time and money and future time.

Tell you what though, other ways to make money, sell me a StarMade T-shirt, offer a "Get a 3D printed model of your ship service", something that feels like I am getting monies worth if I chooseto throw more cash at the devs.

Honestly seeing these kindsof ideas pisses me off considering the shambles the game currently is, with every patch seemingly fixing one thing and breaking another, I think Schines time money and resources would be better spent focusing on just getting the base game complete and stable and adding actual content than looking at servers that host small image files.
Fix the AI, test the game properly, if you notice the AI is once more broken, hold off on that patch until it is fixed or release a hot fix instead of leaving us hanging and wondering if maybe the next patch will fix it again and when that patch will come out, same for weapon. Start trying out adding missions, fix AI crew members. Make assigning AI ships you want easier. And about a billion other things that should take precedent over skin slots and space whales at this point.

I mean I wonder why things so broken make it through to releases, then I see these ideas and I begin to know why, because peoples minds are elsewhere on the wrong things. Maybe rely lesson forums feedback, like most gamesI play, for every 100 people I meet playing a game only 1 of them is on the forums offering an opinion. Put some polls or more regular news on the launcher. Like this idea. 90% of your players will never even have an idea tis is even a thing let alone up for discussion.
Seriously it is forums I have found that ruin many a good game. Indie or AAA. You cannot takeone forums posters opinion and multiply it by X amount of other players not on the forums to say "okay 10 people like it here, so that must mean 10000 people not on the forums must liek it too", despite it being a popular method in polls, studies and such elsewhere, it's asflawed there useage wise as it is in game development.

Don't get me wrong, I love StarMade and support the development whole heartedly, but it feels like Schine is all over the place with the direction it's going and execution of it.

Been playing a bit over a year now, I'd like something more to do now than mine buggy planets and build ships and wonder when and how the AI factions will be broken again.
Give us a game, not skin slots on a server somewhere. I often see players leave in droves for lack of gameplay, returning when an update comes hoping for some massive addition, only to leave again when additions are more bugs and nonsense ideas.

Heck if you do not have jobs for those not currently working on the game then say "thanks but time to go, leave your number and we'll call when and if we have more work.".
I know when the people I do work for have nothing for me to do, they don't just make stuff up to keep me busy.
Hey that websites complete and needs no more work, but hey Rabid please make another we don't need just so you have something to do......

Seriously you got something with a lot of potential here with StarMade, don't get caught in the traps many other developeers and companies do. Get the game working. Add gameplay. Make it stable, then worry about the stupid crap like skins and making it an intergalactic green peace simulator. I bought into a space exploration and combat game and not a lego simulator didn't I?

/rant

Preventing people from potentially being able to upload viruses to a server is a waste of time? lol, k