Enemy bases in claimed territory should drain faction points.

[EricBlank]

I like the basic premise behind the idea here, though in the specifics I worry it lets people conduct a siege on a faction wherein the players simply never came online to fight back. There should be some incentive for the defender to actively be online and defend themselves, say reducing the FP loss while they're online and actively attempting to shoot at their aggressors, even if it's pitiful cannon fire that can't penetrate their shields, and costing more faction points to besiege a system where the defending faction wasn't online when you declared war and reduced losses for that defending party, until after they've come online.

Note the defender would not get any bonuses, nor the offender any punishments, if the defenders were online and then DC'd during the siege.

Can of course still clean up factions that haven't been online for days or weeks, unless server properties restrict that or something?


Also, it looks from his formatting he intended [hull mass + (mass of system blocks^2)]/#stations
Seems fair to try to put a FP value on stations in your systems based on their basic components.

 

[Lone_Puppy]

I like the OP suggestion, but consider - stations only cost 50K now. I can fly into a system and drop 20 stations right after someone logs for the night and by morning they'll have lost thousands of FP.

It's a brilliant solution, but needs strong controls or will be a trollfest.

To address this tactic you could make it mass based to reduce faction points. There could be a base fee (server admin configurable) that is deducted one a prorata rate based on a percentage controlled by mass of the station or collection of stations.

 

[Ithirahad]

I like the basic premise behind the idea here, though in the specifics I worry it lets people conduct a siege on a faction wherein the players simply never came online to fight back. There should be some incentive for the defender to actively be online and defend themselves, say reducing the FP loss while they're online and actively attempting to shoot at their aggressors, even if it's pitiful cannon fire that can't penetrate their shields, and costing more faction points to besiege a system where the defending faction wasn't online when you declared war and reduced losses for that defending party, until after they've come online.

Note the defender would not get any bonuses, nor the offender any punishments, if the defenders were online and then DC'd during the siege.

Can of course still clean up factions that haven't been online for days or weeks, unless server properties restrict that or something?


Also, it looks from his formatting he intended [hull mass + (mass of system blocks^2)]/#stations
Seems fair to try to put a FP value on stations in your systems based on their basic components.

I should edit my original post to mention this, but I intend for claimed stations outside of claimed territory (except for the homebase) to drain faction points from the faction owning them as well as the faction being sieged. Not as many faction points, of course, but enough that a faction can't just drop stations and then go play Overwatch until the enemy station is vulnerable.

 

[Madman198237]

Well, Ithirahad, they could go play Overwatch until then......but they should have to play for a good long while (Several days?)

******EDIT*******
Sorry, skimmed over part of your post (I'm tired, alright?).

They can only do this after securing faction point supplies.

 

[Ithirahad]

Ah, right... Stockpiling faction points is already a balance issue; I don't really know how to solve that one, but it can throw a monkey wrench into all but the most intrusive and annoying proposals to try and make faction points work. That'll take some more thinking and figuring-out.

 

[<SCRIPTKITTY>]

Mathematics question, <SCRIPTKITTY>: Do you mean [hull mass + mass of system blocks^2]/stations OR ([hull mass + mass of system blocks]^2)/stations OR hull mass + (mass of system blocks^2/stations)???

All three give different answers. I think that the last one's illogical, so its really just the first two. But I included the last two because I was on a math roll. So, there. Deal with it.

The exact equation is not the point, props to you for doing the math tho, The point is that there should be some math equation to govern how many the points are effected.
but yes I did mean [hull mass + mass of system blocks^2]/stations

There's a big difference between setting up a tiny under 50m^2 claim station in enemy territory and setting up a full blown functioning outpost. There needs to be a way to distinguish the two, and to keep people from just chucking down cubes full of grey hull to try and drain FP, or just throwing down tiny half-arsed stations all through the sector, there needs to be a way to make hull blocks less effective than system blocks as well as a way to get diminishing returns from the amount of stations, so people are more likely to invest in one big station rather than a hundred crappy ones. Feel free if you are feeling mathy to come up with a better equation than mine.

 

[Nickizzy]

The exact equation is not the point, props to you for doing the math tho, The point is that there should be some math equation to govern how many the points are effected.
but yes I did mean [hull mass + mass of system blocks^2]/stations

There's a big difference between setting up a tiny under 50m^2 claim station in enemy territory and setting up a full blown functioning outpost. There needs to be a way to distinguish the two, and to keep people from just chucking down cubes full of grey hull to try and drain FP, or just throwing down tiny half-arsed stations all through the sector, there needs to be a way to make hull blocks less effective than system blocks as well as a way to get diminishing returns from the amount of stations, so people are more likely to invest in one big station rather than a hundred crappy ones. Feel free if you are feeling mathy to come up with a better equation than mine.

Make it based on power gen? And aux gives you a lot more than regular, so it gets more effective the bigger it gets? Keep in mind that if someone notices this, they'll probably be on each station before a half hour passes. If they're just cubes of hull, I'd just make a logic swarm missile there and leave it be.

 

[Ithirahad]

Added a bunch of stuff that needed to be in the original post.

EDIT2:

Systems, Entity Claims, and FP:

• Owning a planet in your own territory should reduce the amount of FP drained by enemy stations in that system.
  
• Owning a planet in enemy territory should significantly increase the amount of FP you drain with stations in that system. Heavily shield and defend these, as enemy factions will want to land on the planet and torch out the faction module or possibly detonate the planet!.
• Destroying a planet would destroy its faction claim, however planet destruction should require some sort of timed device on the planet rather than simply shooting at it with an immense gun.
• Stations/planets you own in non-claimed, neutral, or enemy territory should cost a smallish amount of your own FP per turn, to discourage station spamming to tear out someone's FP quickly, or claiming tons of planets in random parts of nowhere to screw up newbie factions' warfare FP mechanics before they're fully aware of how they work. However, it should not drain so much FP that things like claimed gate networks become impractical.

Home bases and protection:

• Any feature that allows you to protect stations/planets - preferably by simply using FP every turn - should only work in your own territory or possibly allied territory; additionally, losing a claimed system to FP loss (or unclaiming, or faction-module-eating robotic spider squid, or whatever else) should cause protected stations/planets in the system to become vulnerable, perhaps after 1 faction tick.
• Despite its protection, your home base station or planet should be exempt from the above rule, as well as the FP cost for owning a structure outside of claimed territory. Factions should not be obligated to claim a system.

As for all this talk about requirements for the station to actually drain points in the first place, some sort of "command module" system that would have to be put on stations might work. It'd have to be fairly expensive, and perhaps it would blow up like power auxiliaries once a certain threshold of station AHP or SHP is reached?

 

[Kingofanime]

I've skipped over much of this thread, so I'm not positive what has and has not been suggested yet...

But you could base faction point gain and losses off of the total monetary value of the stations. That way it doesn't matter whether you build 10 small stations or 1 mega station in enemy territory, if the total credit value of them is the same, then it will drain the same amount of faction points. I have no idea what a math formula for it would look like? And if someone still chooses to waste expensive resources or credits on spamming hull cube stations... then I think it becomes less efficient than if they made a functioning station.

This would also encourage people to make small stations when in neutral territory... because they would have less credit value and drain less factions points per turn.

When an npc system is added to the game, perhaps building housing and populating the planet with npcs to certain population limits can further the protection that the planet provides against faction point loss for it's system. Making poplulated planets another barrier to conquer before you can drain faction points in that system.