Enemy bases in claimed territory should drain faction points.

[jayman38]

Faction draining would need to depend on a minimum mass count (maybe server-configurable). Otherwise, opposing factions could build "stations" made of nothing but cargo or area detection blocks, far offset from the original station grey armor block, making it nearly impossible to remove.

 

[Ithirahad]

I didn't consider that.

IMO, Cargo/area detection blocks should have 0 SHP and 1 block HP.

 

[MacThule]

Faction draining would need to depend on a minimum mass count (maybe server-configurable). Otherwise, opposing factions could build "stations" made of nothing but cargo or area detection blocks, far offset from the original station grey armor block, making it nearly impossible to remove.

I think that if a station in enemy territory were to drain FP, it would have to be based on something like a fraction of the station's overall SHP or E/sec. It would also have to include a variable to limit how many adversarial stations in each system could exert drain, and there would have to be plans for handling multiple factions (a coalition) spawning adversarial stations in a single system.

There should probably also be some form of non-violent counter to offset the drain, even something as simple as placing another large station in your system to "bolster your presence." Not because battles aren't awesome, but because options and variety are even more awesome, so allowing merchant and industrial factions good alternative options to respond to (as well as conduct) territorial aggression may be desirable.

 

[Ithirahad]

I think that if a station in enemy territory were to drain FP, it would have to be based on something like a fraction of the station's overall SHP or E/sec.

Um, yeah, no. People would just make massive block stations out of hull or scaffold or something to drain tons of FP. Whatever happened to creative freedom?

It would also have to include a variable to limit how many adversarial stations in each system could exert drain, and there would have to be plans for handling multiple factions (a coalition) spawning adversarial stations in a single system.

There should at least be an option for a maximum amount of stations that can drain FP from a given system, yes.

There should probably also be some form of non-violent counter to offset the drain, even something as simple as placing another large station in your system to "bolster your presence." Not because battles aren't awesome, but because options and variety are even more awesome, so allowing merchant and industrial factions good alternative options to respond to (as well as conduct) territorial aggression may be desirable.

I suppose. Though to be fair, why would a purely industrial/merchant faction need to claim territory in the first place? I guess for mining, but if they're doing large-scale mining they should have a decent fighting force as well... Or, they could just sell stuff to factions at a discount, discouraging the factions from taking them over (biting at the hand that feeds).

 

[aRottenKomquat]

What if there was some kind of "Faction Influence" block which would drain FP from enemies if in enemy territory, or create FP if in your own territory? Somewhat similar to the broadcast stations from Sins of a Solar Empire, but without the effect traveling to nearby systems.

 

[MacThule]

Um, yeah, no. People would just make massive block stations out of hull or scaffold or something to drain tons of FP. Whatever happened to creative freedom?

Yeah, I was talking about System Hit Points, not mass, so spamming hull wouldn't help much, but I take your point. So what then is to keep a faction from simply dropping a station, replacing the starter block with a single empty cargo block and leaving it at that to attack an enemy faction's macro?

 

[Ithirahad]

Yeah, I was talking about System Hit Points, not mass, so spamming hull wouldn't help much, but I take your point. So what then is to keep a faction from simply dropping a station, replacing the starter block with a single empty cargo block and leaving it at that to attack an enemy faction's macro?

The fact that it's visible on the map and would have to have a faction block, which the faction under 'assault' could simply shoot at. No more FP drain.

 

[Madman198237]

MacThule's right, Ithirahad. Otherwise it becomes a lone faction block 3.5 km away from the "station's" center. Almost impossible to find, unless you get a good missile hit...which might not happen if the center of mass is a group of advanced armor blocks, or empty cargo space (Still has mass, I think) a few kilometers in the other direction.

Man, I am good at this trolling thing xD

 

[Ithirahad]

Swarm missiles light your way, and by cannons shall your ends be accomplished.

 

[HolyCookie]

I like the idea but they do have a point Ithirahad it is incredibly impossible to see a 3x3x3 cube of advanced black/grey/dark grey armor from 1km. you can shoot whatever you want but missiles won't target them (they only go for systems right?) and you need to know where the cube is to use beams/cannons.

I also think there should be some kind of friendliness system to new factions that don't have the means to defend themselves yet.

 

[Ithirahad]

I like the idea but they do have a point Ithirahad it is incredibly impossible to see a 3x3x3 cube of advanced black/grey/dark grey armor from 1km. you can shoot whatever you want but missiles won't target them (they only go for systems right?) and you need to know where the cube is to use beams/cannons.

If swarmers only go for systems, that needs to be fixed. If there are no systems, they should go for other blocks, and if there are none of those they should go for armor.

 

[kleshchovand]

Yes, including pirate stations

1. Pirate stations draining FP might be too tough for solo/single play - claiming even single system will start draining FP like crazy due to presence of pirate stations and players need faction boost a lot at initial development stage (at least I do in my local instance).
2. Pirate stations can be considered as farming points since they call for backups often, forcing factions to destroy them might harm not only those faction but also solo players and other factions who were 'farming' from station at nearby 'unclaimed' territory
3. Faction claims system to own, mine, develop and it is up to faction if they want to have complete anarchy there or to have a pirate-free space. If there are trespassers or 'illegal' stations at faction's territory, it is up to faction to decide whether faction wants to deal with trespassers or not. So the presence of something that drops your FP and is out of your control/visual range entirely doesn't make sense to me. However destruction of faction's fleets, convoys e t c probably should drop FP as well as long term presence of hostile faction's vessels near homebase.

P.S. I generally find FP a bit too 'simple'. I think FP can be made more usable - like ordering trade guild's stations construction nearby, maintaining own trade hubs connected to trade network for FP... Then issue of draining FP won't stand so much as well.

 

[Lukwan]

A lot of good ideas here. While I agree that it's desirable to create mechanics that make faction-war servers run well, I would like this to be a game-mode choice for each server not straight up vanilla. My only real concern is that all vanilla game-mechanics allow for all styles of play.
Just a reminder: there are a thousand ways to play a sandbox game like this. I hear a lot debate that seems to assume that faction-wars are the only,best or most important game-modes that people use.

Again I support this concept, so long it works for build-servers, straight RP, single-player, event-servers etc as well as the RTS/faction-war/Epic space-opera.

 

[Ithirahad]

A lot of good ideas here. While I agree that it's desirable to create mechanics that make faction-war servers run well, I would like this to be a game-mode choice for each server not straight up vanilla. My only real concern is that all vanilla game-mechanics allow for all styles of play.
Just a reminder: there are a thousand ways to play a sandbox game like this. I hear a lot debate that seems to assume that faction-wars are the only,best or most important game-modes that people use.

Again I support this concept, so long it works for build-servers, straight RP, single-player, event-servers etc as well as the RTS/faction-war/Epic space-opera.

Of course, the amount of FP drained by this would be configurable, leaving the option to set it to 0 and disable the feature completely.

However, as I see it, the system should probably be enabled in vanilla... In the current state of vanilla, you can somehow "own" a system sustainably despite pirates (or even enemy players) maintaining a far larger presence in the system than yourself. Having to destroy enemy bases to claim a system would, in my opinion, be a really neat part of establishing your faction and place among the stars, and would make the deed far more rewarding and meaningful in the end.

...Also, the mining bonus mechanics need to be looked at, I think, but in the meantime players can just activate their system claim, mine, return to base, and deactivate the claim before significant amounts of FP are lost to enemy presence.

 

[Lukwan]

...Also, the mining bonus mechanics need to be looked at, I think, but in the meantime players can just activate their system claim, mine, return to base, and deactivate the claim before significant amounts of FP are lost to enemy presence.

Ya, I guess that is reasonable. If you want to advance to automated fleet-mining and not worry about FP you will have motivation to clear the hostiles.

 

[Nickizzy]

Um, yeah, no. People would just make massive block stations out of hull or scaffold or something to drain tons of FP. Whatever happened to creative freedom?

If they do that then I can just fly out there next to it and rip it to shreds. These stations need to survive to work, don't they? And if that doesn't work why don't you just make it use power like the faction influence block idea. Just make each influence block constantly use 10k power per second and give you some amount of FPs per hour.

 

[<SCRIPTKITTY>]

rolfstomp

I forgot this was a word, you gave me a chuckle
[doublepost=1475643878,1475643626][/doublepost]

This is actually a suggestion that doesn't make me immediately slam my face against my keyboard in regards to faction warfare. However I'd venture to add; that instead of stations automatically draining the enemy faction's Faction Points you must install a system on the station that has a relatively large power draw (like cloaking or jamming for ships) that once turned on starts draining faction points from the faction that owns the system it's located in. (for balance reasons). Yes I know things turn off once unloaded from server when there isn't a player in the sector but this is more of a switch once on it just begins the take away until turned off or destroyed. They could also be added onto each other so you could have 5 stations in one enemy system draining faction points, etc.

Maybe it could be called a propaganda module XD off the idea that It mocks the faction you are draining points from by sending messages to other factions "look these people can't enforce their borders lol" (not really it wouldn't really do that that's just my meta thought.) causing them to loose influence and thus faction points.

Something Intelligent: Perhaps since non home-base stations are vulnerable, it would be fair to make it so that maintaining a large number of stations inside your own territory would cause you to gain FP? Could create some battles with ACTUAL MEANING.

 

[Ithirahad]

Something Intelligent: Perhaps since non home-base stations are vulnerable, it would be fair to make it so that maintaining a large number of stations inside your own territory would cause you to gain FP? Could create some battles with ACTUAL MEANING.

</SCRIPTKITTY>

Eh, once the claiming process was complete, people would probably go through their system, as though with a mine-layer, and just plop down cheap stations in every sector to give themselves a ton of FP before enemy factions discover them... Let's actually not do that.

 

[<SCRIPTKITTY>]

</SCRIPTKITTY>

Eh, once the claiming process was complete, people would probably go through their system, as though with a mine-layer, and just plop down cheap stations in every sector to give themselves a ton of FP before enemy factions discover them... Let's actually not do that.

Lazy greedy people will always be the problem wont it >.> oh well. Now that I see your logic I agree.
Either way I think there needs to be some way to give incentive to not being a turtle, While still allowing people to be turtles, maybe instead of some module, faction point loss (or gain) could be calculated by the (hull mass + mass of system blocks(shields etc.)^2 /total number of controlled stations in the system not including HB).
This would give diminishing returns the more stations you plop down in one system, preventing mass station plopping, and encourage people to build larger stations that are well defended and also to expand to more systems. Thoughts?

 

[Madman198237]

Mathematics question, <SCRIPTKITTY>: Do you mean [hull mass + mass of system blocks^2]/stations OR ([hull mass + mass of system blocks]^2)/stations OR hull mass + (mass of system blocks^2/stations)???

All three give different answers. I think that the last one's illogical, so its really just the first two. But I included the last two because I was on a math roll. So, there. Deal with it.