Easiest Answer for PvP: Flag of Peace

    Edymnion

    Carebear Extraordinaire!
    Joined
    Mar 18, 2015
    Messages
    2,709
    Reaction score
    1,512
    • Purchased!
    • Thinking Positive Gold
    • Legacy Citizen 5
    The best way I've seen for handling griefers (as opposed to legit PvP'ers) is one that most MMO's have used for years. A pvp flag.

    Very simple concept, if your PvP flag is disabled, other players cannot attack you. If you attack someone else that has their flag enabled, you automatically flag yourself for PvP for X period of time.

    Have every faction start with the flag disabled.

    Then people who want to live dangerously can enable their PvP flags and live it up all they want, while people who just want to play survival on a server can play survival without being harassed.
     
    Joined
    Jan 4, 2015
    Messages
    629
    Reaction score
    243
    i support this option as a server config setting. i believe it should start turned off, and servers should be able to choose to enable it or not. the current methods the game has to prevent all pvp also interfere with other interactions, pve, etc.
     

    Edymnion

    Carebear Extraordinaire!
    Joined
    Mar 18, 2015
    Messages
    2,709
    Reaction score
    1,512
    • Purchased!
    • Thinking Positive Gold
    • Legacy Citizen 5
    PvP servers could have a thing where you have to spend faction points to stay in peace mode.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Neon_42
    Joined
    Jan 4, 2015
    Messages
    629
    Reaction score
    243
    i like that idea as well, its sort of ghetto rigged now with "homebase protectio nstays on till you go neg fp and lose your territory"
     

    Crashmaster

    I got N64 problems but a bitch ain't one
    Joined
    Oct 18, 2013
    Messages
    453
    Reaction score
    361
    I've thought about the flag idea as well but not so recently. I'll barf the thoughts here.

    "You cannot attack this entity." warnings are ridiculous IMO.

    Three types of ship; military, civilian and 'pirate'. Distinguishable by different radar pings, military and civilian transponder can be set/ switched at a shipyard (delay dependent on the change). You can attack whatever you want. The 'pirate' flag is set by attacking (or damaging?) a civilian ship. 'Pirate' ships show up on the galactic map, ship name, pilot name, faction and all, visible to everyone even unloaded like a fleet and might agro their own bases or temp loose faction docking access to discourage running home and docking. I like the 'pirate ships cannot dock' now. Ok, going further, the pirate flag cannot ever be removed from a ship. That ship cannot use faction facilities anymore ever and must be deconstructed which without a shipyard or a cargo ship would be near impossible for large ships. But maybe the game's Pirate faction will not attack you. Or, maybe there's a real long cool-down to switch back from pirate somehow.



    Military ships need to have differences from civilian ships, bonuses to encourage their use and limits as well. Pirate is just a flag.

    Possibilities;

    Military ships have superior thrust-per-block (and/or other system bonuses) but due to the strain have a maintenance clock (based on total blocks or mass or allocated space) that winds down in service and back up (maybe at a different rate) while docked (to base, carrier or supply ship). If the clock runs out while the ships is deployed the bonuses expire and/or the ship could suffer various % system nerfs similar to taking systems damage but never such that it can't get home. Needs fleet AI to actually be able to do stuff to prevent micro-management overflow though. AI crew could be used to modify the clock's rate (perform maintenance). A military ship that turns pirate won't loose it's buffs right away but can no longer re-set it's maintenance clock due to inability to use it's faction facilities. Perhaps being aligned with the game's Pirate faction would allow docking at in-game Pirate stations for a similar function though. Another option could be that you could sell the ship to a pirate station and it just becomes an AI controlled pirate ship.

    A New Block (yeah I know), maintenance locker; link it to cargo space, this acts as your visual maintenance clock. It 'fills' with nothing when docked and it's volume determines the max military deployment time for the ship. Could be transferrable to/from other ships through docking like regular cargo?

    Docking a military ship to a civilian one; the civilian ship is temp-flagged as military but not given military bonuses, must leave the same sector as the military ship for it's flag to revert to civilian.

    No warheads on civilian ships. Adding a warhead to a civilian ship sets it to pirate automatically (this needs a warning prompt I'd guess). Anything else goes as self-defense.


    Civilian ships as spies or asteroid stealing; If your faction has claim to a sector can you attack a civilian in your own sector without being flagged as a pirate? Maybe a sector-owning civilian would have to get switched to military but not having a maintenance storage would prevent them from gaining any buffs? Not so great since as most core sectors get claimed being a civilian ship offers less and less security.


    The first issue I see so far is accidental civilian casualties during military fleet engagement. My first thought was to have the pirate flag set on actual damage instead of shield hit but not all ships run shields and this would force civilian ships under attack from other civilian ships to wait until their shields are breached before counter-attacking to prevent being flagged themselves unless it could be coded some other way.

    Second issue; civilian cloaked ship used to force-flag a victim as a pirate. Perhaps no cloakers on civilian ships but I don't really like that idea.

    Third issue would be how something like this would interact with NPC factions if it needs to at all.



    Certainly not a polished idea but some points here may inspire a better one.



    Another problem with this would be a fleet with civilian shield supply beam support ships. They won't flag themselves by using support beams and cannot be attacked by the opposing force without causing pirate flags.
     
    Joined
    Jun 19, 2015
    Messages
    214
    Reaction score
    36
    The best way I've seen for handling griefers (as opposed to legit PvP'ers) is one that most MMO's have used for years. A pvp flag.
    If you play on a PVP server, they are only griefers if they hang around you all day every day or some other shit like that. Shooting you ships and bases for a few days is not griefing.
    I think you are using the term griefer wrongly in an attempt to gain a form of higher ground.

    As a none aggressive player i want this risk and consequence.

    But they should add it as a server mode so there is full and flag based pvp servers
     

    jayman38

    Precentor-Primus, pro-tempore
    Joined
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages
    2,518
    Reaction score
    787
    • Purchased!
    • Thinking Positive
    • Legacy Citizen 4
    It would be a lot of fun if there were RP messages for reasons why you can't attack a flag=peace ship.

    Examples:
    Unknown Feedback Loop in weapon system. Control Bypass. Correcting.... Weapon Online.
    Mynock Chewing on Power Cable. Weapon System Offline. Power Bypass. Correcting.... Weapon Online.
    Mynock Chewing on Weapon Outpout. Mynock vaporized. Weapon Online.
    Target Hailing. Peace Mission. Hail Successful. Weapon Bypassed.
    Unknown Power Loss in weapon system. Power Bypass. Correcting.... Weapon Online.
    Crewmen currently repairing weapon system. Weapon Online intermittently.
    Crewmen currently servicing weapon system. Weapon Offline intermittently.
    Robots currently...
    Nanobots currently...

    There would need to be 50 different messages, with a cool-down between each one (so you don't spam yourself with a rapid-fire weapon.)

    You could create a random list of Object-Verb-Subject messages with custom technobabble in XML files. (E.g. Scotty currently chewing on Power Cable. Power Bypass.... Weapon online.)
     

    Edymnion

    Carebear Extraordinaire!
    Joined
    Mar 18, 2015
    Messages
    2,709
    Reaction score
    1,512
    • Purchased!
    • Thinking Positive Gold
    • Legacy Citizen 5
    If you play on a PVP server, they are only griefers if they hang around you all day every day or some other shit like that. Shooting you ships and bases for a few days is not griefing.
    I think you are using the term griefer wrongly in an attempt to gain a form of higher ground.
    I've never seen this kind of behavior. The only "PvP" I've seen in games for years is of the "I'm not going to fight unless I know 100% I can win, if they can actually even risk hurting me, I'm not doing it" style, aka noobstomping, aka griefing.

    There are what I call virtuous PvP'ers out there that actually fight fair and are in it for the thrill of the fight. Those appear to be rare spawns, however. Most of them in my experience are just frustrated teenage assholes that probably get bullied in school and instead of trying to deal with it in a constructive way turn around and be the bullies in video games for cheap thrills.
     
    Joined
    Jun 24, 2015
    Messages
    247
    Reaction score
    63
    I like the idea of a PVP flag. I think this would be a very easy and clear way to let others know.
     
    Joined
    Nov 30, 2015
    Messages
    855
    Reaction score
    75
    I've never seen this kind of behavior. The only "PvP" I've seen in games for years is of the "I'm not going to fight unless I know 100% I can win, if they can actually even risk hurting me, I'm not doing it" style, aka noobstomping, aka griefing.

    There are what I call virtuous PvP'ers out there that actually fight fair and are in it for the thrill of the fight. Those appear to be rare spawns, however. Most of them in my experience are just frustrated teenage assholes that probably get bullied in school and instead of trying to deal with it in a constructive way turn around and be the bullies in video games for cheap thrills.
    Then why do you even play on pvp servers? If the only combat you approve is combat that is completely balanced, then that could only happen in an arena where both people have the same ship and the same play time and the same skill. You can probably have that in some servers, like gladiator or kit war or brawl fights in minecraft, but a lot of people also want to use the rest of the game and play factions, where you can actually one-up people and be strategic in more than just hack and slash.

    Sure some people might get to a server early, build up a base, and go hunting for new players, but others will recruit them into their faction and gain more manpower and ability. Or make them tributaries where they give 20% mineral and credit gain to the ruling faction. I would rather allow complex systems then limit everything to the simplist programs.
     

    Edymnion

    Carebear Extraordinaire!
    Joined
    Mar 18, 2015
    Messages
    2,709
    Reaction score
    1,512
    • Purchased!
    • Thinking Positive Gold
    • Legacy Citizen 5
    Then why do you even play on pvp servers?
    Because there are no other kinds.

    Seriously, go try to find a non-creative mode build server that isn't PvP. There isn't a survival server that isn't PvP.
     
    Joined
    Jan 28, 2015
    Messages
    492
    Reaction score
    149
    • Community Content - Bronze 1
    • Purchased!
    • Legacy Citizen 3
    Because there are no other kinds.

    Seriously, go try to find a non-creative mode build server that isn't PvP. There isn't a survival server that isn't PvP.
    Sure there are.

    Take your time to read the various servers rules. Some have do not attack other people. Or at the very least. Do not attack other people unless they agree to it.

    And if the server of your particular play style is not there then there is nobody stopping you to start your very own.

    In StarMade if you can imagine it you can build it. The same holds true for server configs. You can set it all to your very own taste.

    Being the Server Boss you get to set the rules.

    All that is left then is crossing your fingers hoping like minded people want to play in your Kingdom.
     

    DrTarDIS

    Eldrich Timelord
    Joined
    Jan 16, 2014
    Messages
    1,114
    Reaction score
    310
    How about we get a friendship is magic invulnerability buff too? Or turn all weapons to friendship beams (astrotek) except in battlemode servers?

    I'd support Crashmaster 's civillian ship idea if all civvy ships looked like this:
     
    Joined
    Jan 28, 2015
    Messages
    492
    Reaction score
    149
    • Community Content - Bronze 1
    • Purchased!
    • Legacy Citizen 3
    How about we get a friendship is magic invulnerability buff too? Or turn all weapons to friendship beams (astrotek) except in battlemode servers?
    Well if we were to work with the options that are currently in the game then the first thing that comes to mind is this command.

    sector_chmod
    • DESCRIPTION: Changes the sector mode: example '/sector_chmod 8 8 8 + peace', available modes are 'peace'(no enemy spawn), 'protected'(no attacking possible), 'noenter'(disables entering sector), 'noexit'(disables leaving sector), 'noindications'(disables hud indicators), 'nofploss'(disables faction point loss)
    • PARAMETERS: SectorX(Integer), SectorY(Integer), SectorZ(Integer), +/-(String), peace/protected/noenter/noexit/noindications/nofploss(String)
    • EXAMPLE: /sector_chmod 10 12 15 + noenter
    Chckn_Wildstyle

    Had a server where a bubble of sectors starting at 0 0 0 were dynamically/admin set to Peace. Depending on how the server population did against curtain Admin Boss Event Pirates. If you went outside the Peace Sector Bubble. You would be attacked by wave after wave of Pirates. This worked way better in the older versions of StarMade where you actually got attacked at random by Pirates. The old Hostile Sighted server message. I miss that…

    When scripted you can also add the + protected variable at that point it becomes impossible to damage or kill anyone or anything in these sectors.

    On regular server admins can also make it that every Home Base sits in a 3 by 3 by 3 protected sector bubble. When a player sets up a Home Base he then asks the admin to place the bubble.

    Note that attacking NPC or Pirate ships can clog up these sectors really fast. If you no longer can destroy them. You may need to disable the AI.
     

    Aesthetics

    Dark Lord of the Sith
    Joined
    Aug 29, 2016
    Messages
    323
    Reaction score
    265
    This idea is bloody ridiculous, and very exploitable. Let's say you're a faction of sorts, and your PvP flag is on. Your enemy's PvP flag is also on. Your enemy comes to attack you. What do you do? Do you defend? Nah. Let's say you enjoy exploiting, so you turn off your PvP flag. Now the enemy can't attack you. What's that? They're turning away and going home after yelling at you and calling you every name under the sun because you were being a complete dick and exploiting this ridiculous hypothetical idea? Better turn on the PvP flag and shoot them in the back, and once they're dead turn it back off again.

    Genius.
     
    Joined
    Jan 28, 2015
    Messages
    492
    Reaction score
    149
    • Community Content - Bronze 1
    • Purchased!
    • Legacy Citizen 3
    This shows just about how stupid this is.
    Agree.

    But i do not have anything against it if it is an extra server configuration option. Where the server owner can choose to enable it yes or no.

    Because that would give you a peacefull survival server without the need for an admin online to police the rules.

    I think most players are against mandatory from the top down this is how StarMade needs to be played visions/rules. But extra server options are just fine.
     
    Joined
    Jan 27, 2016
    Messages
    169
    Reaction score
    195
    A pvp flag like WOW wouldn't be a bad idea as a server config option, but for the most part you can set up non-pvp areas using the protected sector admin command.

    GenXNova runs the spawn sector as protected and has a pair of gates nearby, one to take you to an entirely PVE oriented protected galaxy and another to take you to a anything goes PVP galaxy. Although most people just set up shop in the starting galaxy that's somewhere in between. Setting this up at the admin level seems to be work pretty well.

    Obviously, the NPCs and pirates can still mess you up in the PVE galaxy if your aren't careful :-p
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Batavium