Dyson Spheres..

[Lecic]

You can get them in here by using that Report link at the bottom of the posts that annoy you.


No, I am invalidating your argument in general. In fact, that "comparison", as you'd call it, is directly derived from your claim that every reaction is an explosion. You can tell that this is false by taking a look at the Wikipedia quote above, or thinking about candles.
Here's your only choices:

1. Admit that you are wrong.
2. Claim that there's no reaction happening with a burning candle.
3. Make your farewell thread come true.
4. (see below)

4. Tell me that you have some kind of disorder that makes you incapable of reasoning. This is not an insult.

Wow, you've gone so off topic that if your showed this post to anyone without context, they'd think the point of this thread was the exact definition of an explosion.

Technically, a burning candle is a continuous set of very small explosions, so kindly shut up about it already.

Stop being a jerk.

Can we get back on the topic of a dyson sphere? I don't see much reason to build one. The energy spent building and maintaining one is far more than you'd get back from the star, and there's no reason to build one in Starmade beyond the engineering challenge (and wanting to cause lots of lag)

 

[Incap]

I agree with Lecic.

A Dyson Sphere would require the resources and energy of an entire solar system and perhaps more, and is the work of Science Fantasy. Science Fiction has always been grounded in reality in differing levels. For Starmade, this would absolutely murder any server.

 

[Lecic]

Furnace is actually a good analogy. And bear in mind that furnaces do not explode.

An explosion is a rapid increase in volume and a release of energy. Guess what lighting a fire is? And since a fire continues to ignite new things, this keeps happening. Therefore, a furnace and a candle are explosions.

If You weren't trying to prove other people that they are wrong, i wouldn't care, but when You start arguing without proper knowledge, i've tried to clear some not scientifically correct views on how the stars work. Without insulting.
And checking Your knowledge before convincing others to Your truth is what would made the internet better place.

You are telling people incorrect information. A star is a continuously exploding ball of nuclear fire. Fusion is constantly occurring at the core of a star. By definition of an explosion, fusion is an explosion, therefore a star is constantly exploding. Thanks, now how about YOU stop arguing without proper knowledge.

Well, it is tangible object. It would be very hard to gather anything from the surface of the star, but the outer layers (also the inner ones) are made from physical particles, mostly made from well known neutrons, protons and electrons.

Of course i do agree that much easier way to gather any elements would be to harvest asteroid or planets, especially gas giants, which mostly consist hydrogen. But if there is no such objects nearby, with advanced technology it may be possible to harvest matter from the stars.

Then do not start teaching people wrong theories. I really do not like when others are doing this.
When You are wrong, i have a right to prove that and tell how it really is. Going mad about this or saying "well, who cares?" isn't a great way to gather knowledge or even to discuss.

Sorry, I need to excuse myself for a moment, I'm mildly allergic to hypocrisy.










Thank you.

The fact that it is a plasma probably makes it even easier to harvest, because plasma can be moved and shaped by electromagnetic field. Also after cooling down, plasma would turn into other states of matter, which would make it easier to storage.
The real problem would be getting close enough and creating magnetic field strong enough to overcome natural magnetic and gravity field of the star.

You could probably just make more power by having some solar panels.

Knowing how the stars work is an important knowledge, when trying to consider if solar mining is possible. Incap wasn't very scientifically correct, so i wanted to clear things up.

Since you don't know anything about stars, I think it's time for you to shut up about stars. Incap was more scientifically correct than you.

If there would be reactors, which require fuel (probably could happen with mods), then i don't see a problem with this type of gathering fuel. It could be also done in other, different ways, but i don't see how this exactly is the "stupid" one.

Sorry, but this game isn't Space Engineers. I'd rather not spend most of my time collecting fuel or ammo or anything else that simply elongates gameplay and wastes time for the sake of it.

 

[Warboss612]

I don't know if there's a server setting in the config files that would enable or disable sector rotation, but if there is: it would help reduce the lag. It will also depend on how much more will Starmade's memory performance will improve (like big ships taking up 90% less memory or something of the like) that would make it less of a lag magnet. But even then, I doubt the server would be lag free if such a thing was built, let alone multiple in other systems.

I would not make it if one wanted to do things in the survival mode sense (which would only make things harder then doing it in creative). I would build it for an epic build to show off or have to one self to admire and as a proud job well done. I can't think of any other reasons beyond that either though.

Edit: Actually I realized there would be another use for it: As a major HQ. You can have entire fleets parked inside. Imagine all those defenses and all of the battles at trying to raid the people inside the Dyson Sphere. It can be a great control point too: Control the sphere, control the entire Solar System.

 

[rece ktore leczo]

Lecic Sorry, but You've failed very hard at trying to prove i'm wrong. Please, next time before getting into discussion - check Your knowledge.

An explosion is a rapid increase in volume and a release of energy. Guess what lighting a fire is? And since a fire continues to ignite new things, this keeps happening. Therefore, a furnace and a candle are explosions.

An explosion is a rapid increase in volume and a release of energy. Guess what lighting a fire is? And since a fire continues to ignite new things, this keeps happening. Therefore, a furnace and a candle are explosions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combustion

Please read this with some understanding, then post. If You will admit that You were wrong, then nothing bad would happen, but if You will decide to stay uninformed and ignorant, then please at least do not try to convince others to Your point.

You are telling people incorrect information. A star is a continuously exploding ball of nuclear fire. Fusion is constantly occurring at the core of a star. By definition of an explosion, fusion is an explosion, therefore a star is constantly exploding. Thanks, now how about YOU stop arguing without proper knowledge.

Yeah, fusion is occurring at the core, but it is not labeled as explosion, as volume of the star is pretty constant. Fusion gives star an energy which prevent star from collapsing. The outer layer, which is relevant at mining stars is not where the fusion occurs, and is not rapidly expanding in volume, which is basic requirement to label anything as explosion. There are solar flares, which are explosions, but the "solar flare activity comes from the tangling of magnetic field lines resulting from the rotation of the Sun's conductive plasma", so these are not nuclear explosions and surely aren't happening all the time on the whole surface of the star.

And please tell me, where exactly i was giving an incorrect information.

You could probably just make more power by having some solar panels.

I was talking that it is possible to harvest and contain plasma as a response to Yours "we can't harvest plasma". I've mentioned few times that i see easier ways to gather matter/energy. I'm quoting texts which i'm commenting, to prevent this type of misunderstandings, so please read whole with some understanding.

Since you don't know anything about stars, I think it's time for you to shut up about stars. Incap was more scientifically correct than you.

Then please prove it, don't be blind fanboy of Incap and do not take his words as ultimate truth. Do not even take mine as one, check all the scientific info Yourself. If You would find that anything here isn't true then please give feedback with some links to prove it. I didn't gave any, because before posting i've checked my comments if i'm really telling the truth, so i'm pretty sure they are right.

Sorry, but this game isn't Space Engineers. I'd rather not spend most of my time collecting fuel or ammo or anything else that simply elongates gameplay and wastes time for the sake of it.

I've said that systems using fuel may be accessible by mods. Anyway there are many different ways of implementing fuel or ammo, each with its pros and cons, but it's not an appropriate thread to discuss it.


Btw Incap lmgtfy

And yes, dyson spheres most likely would create killing lag on server, but trying one on SP wouldn't hurt anyone

 

[Incap]

You You You You You

Okay, seriously, 'you' is not a noun.

And I really hope you're using plasma as a general term here...

 

[rece ktore leczo]

Plasma as a fourth state of matter, don't know what are the other meanings for plasma.

 

[SpaceChief]

Aren't stars mostly hydrogen? Like, the most abundant resource in the universe? So, any plasma you scoop out of the star would cool and become...hydrogen.

Not that it really matters in StarMade, as far as in-game stations go I'd rather see something like a giant space station parked really close to a star because it's harder to get close to, rather than serving some real purpose. Like the supernova station from Homeworld.

Or even a dyson swarm, or ringworld, or other Big Dumb Object. It doesn't have to serve a real-life scientific purpose to be cool.

 

[MrFURB]

Rece Ktore Leczo, Incap, Lecic, please refrain from posting offensive comments when discussing things on the forums.

 

[Vakna]

Incap I love how your arguments are defeated with scientific fact and then you come back, completely ignoring it (or blatantly denying what you said) and then start talking about such a system's practicality, instead of it's impossibility. Brilliant.

A star is a tangible object as well as a gigantic nuclear reaction. Scientific fact states you can manipulate plasma through electromagnetic fields, so in a science fiction universe I don't see why it would be a "stupid" thing at all (not to mention the fact that it has been done in some of said universes). No more silly than the concept of wormholes or hyperspace.

Finally, when talking about harvesting stellar material in Starmade, it wouldn't be used for energy, no point since we have infinite energy anyway. It would most likely be some form of exotic matter used in constructing some advanced machine. From a sci-fi perspective, you can really have multiple uses for such a thing.

As for Dyson Spheres, there is not really any need to build one in Starmade at all unless you want to have an engineering challenge, but questioning it's viability in science fiction? Yes, it would require an absolutely titanic amount of materials to actually construct, but as an investment you would get far more out of it than you put in by a fair few orders of magnitude. You would profit alone by the fact you are capturing 100% (or very close to) the energy output of the enclosed star (that's more energy than you can really comprehend), then you have the ridiculously large amount of potential living space for a civilisation on the inside of the Sphere. None of that is even considering if you have a technology like the Trek replicators that can transform energy into usable matter...

To conclude; harvesting stellar plasma in science fiction = possible, backed by scientific fact, probably not viable as an energy source, other uses remain. Dyson Spheres = not only possible in science fiction, but when backed by scientific fact, extremely profitable for a civilisation that has the ability to reasonably build one in the first place.

 

[Vakna]

It doesn't have to serve a real-life scientific purpose to be cool.

Pretty much said everything that needs to be said right there, sometimes people forget that science fiction is about where your imagination can take you.

 

[Comr4de]

For the record, you're all wrong and you're all right.

A star is a luminous ball of superheated plasma held together by its own mass. The plasma is generated by constant thermonuclear fusion reactions. So it is fair to say that a star is a constant explosion. It is also fair to say that a star is physically tangible. Realistically however, it's far easier to harness the solar radiation than it is the actual solar plasma.

 

[BDLS]

For the record, you're all wrong and you're all right.

A star is a luminous ball of superheated plasma held together by its own mass. The plasma is generated by constant thermonuclear fusion reactions. So it is fair to say that a star is a constant explosion. It is also fair to say that a star is physically tangible. Realistically however, it's far easier to harness the solar radiation than it is the actual solar plasma.

You're wrong, idiot.









:^)

 

[Incap]

Vakna
>scientific fact
>implying combustion isn't just an explosion of heat and light
>implying a star isn't a torrential storm of constant nuclear detonations under the otherwise calm surface, all self contained within it's own magnetic sphere

You've made me imply. I hope you're happy.

You do realize that it's a massive nuclear reactor that is 100x time bigger than the Earth that keeps a planet that is 50x times bigger than the Earth in it's orbit, along with 8 other planets, right? Anything that could get close to one without burning up or be ripped apart by the incredibly strong gravitational pull would have to be something that defies the laws of physics or exist in a parallel dimension. You wouldn't get close enough to harvest anything, and doing it from a distance away would be a waste of time. Solar energy , or you know light and UV radiation, however is unhindered while traveling through space and is only stopped by the Earth's atmosphere and magnetosphere. Space based solar panels wouldn't have this problem and would operate better in the vacuum of space.

Please keep the Dyson Sphere in the realm of science fantasy because ain't nobody got time for that.

And why does it even matter?

 

[rece ktore leczo]

MrFURB I'm sorry if my posts were offensive in any way. I'll pay more attention while commenting next time.

Aren't stars mostly hydrogen? Like, the most abundant resource in the universe? So, any plasma you scoop out of the star would cool and become...hydrogen.

Yep, that's why it would be easier to harvest gas giants

You would profit alone by the fact you are capturing 100% (or very close to) the energy output of the enclosed star (that's more energy than you can really comprehend), then you have the ridiculously large amount of potential living space for a civilisation on the inside of the Sphere. None of that is even considering if you have a technology like the Trek replicators that can transform energy into usable matter...

We are already transforming energy into matter. The problem is that it require massive amounts of energy, which wouldn't be a problem if we had dyson sphere

The sun is, btw, transferring matter into energy, it is estimated, if i recall correctly, that it has already turned 100 times mass of the Earth into the energy. With capturing almost all of the energy the sun is radiating and with some decent effectiveness, in 1 billion years we could have few more earth-sized planets orbiting the earth. Yeah, science!

 

[MrFURB]

Let's get this thread back on track...

When I think of a Dyson Sphere in Starmade I'm invariably reminded of titans in Eve Online. Building a 14 kilometer-long titan isn't something someone can just up and do. It takes teamwork, infrastructure, and planning. It's something that a smaller faction would slowly work towards and something that larger factions would have a limited number of. I believe that once it becomes feasible, having a Dyson Sphere as a faction base would be similar; a long term goal for a long-term group to finish. I can see it eventually happening.

 

[Comr4de]

Let's get this thread back on track...

When I think of a Dyson Sphere in Starmade I'm invariably reminded of titans in Eve Online. Building a 14 kilometer-long titan isn't something someone can just up and do. It takes teamwork, infrastructure, and planning. It's something that a smaller faction would slowly work towards and something that larger factions would have a limited number of. I believe that once it becomes feasible, having a Dyson Sphere as a faction base would be similar; a long term goal for a long-term group to finish. I can see it eventually happening.

Previously on NASS I had built a space station around a star. It was pretty difficult; I had to locate the actual center of the sector and build around it. Since space stations block sun damage, once I had covered up the sun itself, I was able to build a pretty neat star base (puns!)

 

[SpaceChief]

Did it actually block the star from visibility over a distance? If so that's super cool!

 

[Lecic]

MrFURB I'm sorry if my posts were offensive in any way. I'll pay more attention while commenting next time.



Yep, that's why it would be easier to harvest gas giants



We are already transforming energy into matter. The problem is that it require massive amounts of energy, which wouldn't be a problem if we had dyson sphere

The sun is, btw, transferring matter into energy, it is estimated, if i recall correctly, that it has already turned 100 times mass of the Earth into the energy. With capturing almost all of the energy the sun is radiating and with some decent effectiveness, in 1 billion years we could have few more earth-sized planets orbiting the earth. Yeah, science!

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/970724a.html

I don't know where you got the idea that we've turned energy into usable matter form, but we haven't, according to NASA.

Anyway, everyone says "ZOMG TEH DYSON SPEHER IS 100% ENEGRY CAPTURAL" with complete ignorance toward the facts, those being-

• Solar Panels cannot absorb and convert 100% or even close to that of the energy that hits it, and they never will get past a certain point. The laws of physics prevent 100% absorption.
• The Dyson Sphere's interior would need to be 100% coated in solar panels to get anywhere near 100% of the sun's energy emissions
• There almost certainly isn't enough viable material available in ours or any other system, even multiple systems, to encase a single sun-like or even red dwarf star. The mass of the solar system is ~1.0014 Solar Masses, much of which (that isn't solar material) is gasses in the gas giants, micrometeorites and flecks of dust, and other unusable materials.

 

[rece ktore leczo]

Lecic I've written that we are transforming energy into matter. And NASA admits
Maybe it's not possible to use that matter yet, but with technological advance, we would probably have ways to keep matter and antimatter separate, so we would be able to use created particles.

Anyway good job on doing research, i surely approve!


Yeah, we can't use 100% energy coming from the sun rays. Yet. Maybe we won't get to 100% but i guess that if human race would have few more thousands years for technological advance, we would certainly get pretty damn close.