Dyson Sphere Project

[joshspaceboy]

I've been doing some work on a Dyson Sphere habitat for a little while now and I wanted to see if I could get some help concerning the interior and lighting. Of course I'm not trapping an actual star inside the station, although that would be awesome it would only work where I built it so that's not exactly something I care about making. Instead I put a "star" in the middle as seen in the pictures below. The dimensions are about 400x400x400. I've added plenty of space for shields, reactor, stabilizer, ect. Basically the idea is to make a massive planet on the inside with six sections all different from each other. One is a grassy forest and the other is a desert. Those have been completed. The other four will be a city, a volcano, a purple surface, and an ice world. Mountains will be the barrier between each section and traveling from section to section will change your gravity to the correct alignment. Just looking for some advice or help if someone who is good at making land features wants to help out since I'm really an exterior kind of guy. Taking suggestions and constructive criticisms as they come!

 

[MChain]

Will be an EXTREMELY weird build due to the kind of connections between those, but a truly ambitious project. Good luck to you, can't wait to see it finished ;-)

As for landscaping - nature hates even, orderly lines and sharp corners. Try to do more asymmetric, uneven stuff. Plus landscape photos do really help to determine the result you're aiming for.

 

[joshspaceboy]

Will be an EXTREMELY weird build due to the kind of connections between those, but a truly ambitious project. Good luck to you, can't wait to see it finished ;-)

As for landscaping - nature hates even, orderly lines and sharp corners. Try to do more asymmetric, uneven stuff. Plus landscape photos do really help to determine the result you're aiming for.

Definitely a weird build to be sure but if I manage to pull it off correctly it will be worth the effort. I’m pretty sure I’ve got the mechanics in my brain working correctly. To do my big projects I usually do small parts at a time so I dont give up on them. It’s worked so far. Thanks for the advice. I’ll look up some landscaping pictures for help. I think I’ll take a whole week and do just one section at a time until it’s up to my standerd.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Definitely a weird build to be sure but if I manage to pull it off correctly it will be worth the effort. I’m pretty sure I’ve got the mechanics in my brain working correctly. To do my big projects I usually do small parts at a time so I dont give up on them. It’s worked so far. Thanks for the advice. I’ll look up some landscaping pictures for help. I think I’ll take a whole week and do just one section at a time until it’s up to my standerd.

Nice.

I'll confirm. It can definitely be done. ...and it will be awesome when you do.

I have a similar project to yours, though mine is an artificial planet with the beginnings of a Dyson-like interior.


A key obstacle you will face in this kind of build is gravity. Currently there is no radial or reverse-radial gravity. The chamber they have for it doesn't work well since it pulls you toward the nearest block of the structure rather than the center of it. As a result, it basically slings you around your structure in some kind of weak orbit that you can never break out of if you're in astronaut mode.

One possible solution is to use area triggers connected to an activation module and surround your "cities" with them. Slave a gravity block to the activation module and when someone enters the border of the city, they will align to that "plate".

 

[joshspaceboy]

Nice.

I'll confirm. It can definitely be done. ...and it will be awesome when you do.

I have a similar project to yours, though mine is an artificial planet with the beginnings of a Dyson-like interior.
View attachment 55071View attachment 55073View attachment 55072

A key obstacle you will face n this kind of build is gravity. Currently there is no radial or reverse-radial gravity. The chamber they have for it doesn't work well since it pulls you toward the nearest block of the structure rather than the center of it. As a result, it basically slings you around your structure in some kind of weak orbit that you can nver break out of if you're in astronaut mode.

One possible solution is to use area triggers connected to an activation module and surround your "cities" with them. Slave a gravity block to the activation module and when someone enters the border of the city, they will align to that "plate".

Wow that looks great! The area triggers was exactly how I intended to do the gravity. Makes me feel more confident it will work correctly. Thanks!

 

[DeepspaceMechanic]

One possible solution is to use area triggers connected to an activation module and surround your "cities" with them. Slave a gravity block to the activation module and when someone enters the border of the city, they will align to that "plate".

The area triggers was exactly how I intended to do the gravity. Makes me feel more confident it will work correctly.

Dr. Whammy - Regarding area-trigger-activated gravity, I always wondered whether or not the triggering of an Area Trigger array by player B would reverse the effect produced when player A triggered the same setup beforehand (force player A out of/into gravity, depending on current state).

I mean, we can make a distinction between two types of interactions between players and togglable blocks: if player A interacts with let's say a light block, the resultant in-game changes (texture swap / lighting alteration) are the same as if player B would have done the same; while gravity blocks effect players individually (the game must keep track of a gravity block's state or triggering order on a per-player basis).

Is the desirable scenario the case, where area-trigger-toggled gravity effects players individually, despite the indirectness of the interaction?

Given that Area Triggers are reactive to both player and ship entities, I imagine that the aforementioned possibilities could be verified in singleplayer too. But I haven't done that yet, so I'd like to ask about your experiences in this regard.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Dr. Whammy - Regarding area-trigger-activated gravity, I always wondered whether or not the triggering of an Area Trigger array by player B would reverse the effect produced when player A triggered the same setup beforehand (force player A out of/into gravity, depending on current state).

I mean, we can make a distinction between two types of interactions between players and togglable blocks: if player A interacts with let's say a light block, the resultant in-game changes (texture swap / lighting alteration) are the same as if player B would have done the same; while gravity blocks effect players individually (the game must keep track of a gravity block's state or triggering order on a per-player basis).

Is the desirable scenario the case, where area-trigger-toggled gravity effects players individually, despite the indirectness of the interaction?

Given that Area Triggers are reactive to both player and ship entities, I imagine that the aforementioned possibilities could be verified in singleplayer too. But I haven't done that yet, so I'd like to ask about your experiences in this regard.

I can't say for certain but I'm pretty sure that when using the gravity block (whether directly or via area triggers) your astronaut receives his own player-specific instance of gravity.

I say this for the following reasons...

1) In the past, when I played multiplayer, I toured another player's ship. We each had to activate the gravity block to enter the ship's gravity. When one of us left the ship's gravity, the other one still had gravity applied. We also used gravity lifts; which only affected the player activating them.

2) Astronauts can grapple/align to an object at an individual level. We still receive the messages about entering/leaving an object's gravity or changing gravity alignments when moving between two objects within close proximity to each other. Meanwhile, those objects do not collide since the use of gravity blocks only affects astronauts. If other nearby objects were affected, one would assume that other nearby astronauts would be as well.

3) Currently, the only way to activate a gravity block is by activating the block directly or by using with one activation module, and area triggers. No further circuit complexity will work.

Unless Schine or Quickfire have some unannounced goodies they're keeping secret, only mass chamber effects seem to be able to generate universal, always-on gravity.

 

[joshspaceboy]

I can check how it works regarding to multiplayer when I am working on there gravity bit. Ill post my findings here although I am fairly sure Dr. Whammy’s conclusion is correct for the same reasons he mentioned.

 

[Crashmaster]

I had an idea for 'simple' Dyson sphere gravity solution that failed for reasons I never looked into.

https://starmadedock.net/threads/juniper-rocket-appliances.25409/page-2#post-378661

Unfortunately it's not really suitable for what you have going, also it corrupted it's sector.

 

[JinM]

Just for roleplay questions: I always thought dyson spheres have central gravity, dragging towards the center, as they are supposed to harvest the energy of a star. Thus they would take advantage of the stars gravity, instead of creating additional.

I know that ringworld of the other hand have centrifugal gravity, pushing objects away from the center.

But correct me if I am wrong.

Or lets ask the other way around: From which novel or movie are those dyson spheres that have centrifugal gravity, pushing objects outwards instead of draggin towards the star?

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Just for roleplay questions: I always thought dyson spheres have central gravity, dragging towards the center, as they are supposed to harvest the energy of a star. Thus they would take advantage of the stars gravity, instead of creating additional.

I know that ringworld of the other hand have centrifugal gravity, pushing objects away from the center.

But correct me if I am wrong.

Or lets ask the other way around: From which novel or movie are those dyson spheres that have centrifugal gravity, pushing objects outwards instead of draggin towards the star?

You are correct with regard to ring worlds. However, gravity on/in dyson Spheres is a bit tricky unless you're using some kind of sci-fi artificial gravity generators.

Something large enough to surround a star will have substantial gravity on its own but it's difficult to say just how strong it would be in comparison to the star itself. If the "surface" is sufficiently dense, you could theoretically be attracted to any given point of the sphere. ...or you could go catapulting into an uncontrolled high speed, low orbit; with every inch of the sphere attempting to sling you around itself due to there being no real center of mass, after tripping on a dangerously exposed elm root; like what happened on my planet.

If compact enough, living on the outside of the sphere would be practical since the star would be the primary source of gravity. However, if the sphere's interior surface were say (correction) 93 million miles from the surface of the sun (~or 187 million miles in diameter...), you could theoretically live on the interior and have access to a godlike level of population capacity.

Here is an example of an internally colonized sphere. The structure was abandoned when the star reached the end of its life and started started to irradiate the interior.


My original intent was to create a hollow planet that houses population both externally and internally but the current gravity systems do not work in such a way that would (effectively) support my intended method of construction.

An old "Choose your own adventure" book from my childhood called "Through the Black Hole" also has story arc that depicts smooth grey planets that function like Dyson spheres; created by an alien civilization. In the story, your ship can't land on them so you have to ram one; full throttle and dig into the interior.

 

[joshspaceboy]

That episode of Star Trek is where I got the idea from.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Can you imagine the amount of resources needed to construct something like that in real life?

Were talking strip mining several hundred star systems. ...at a minimum.

 

[jayman38]

The force of gravity drops with the square of distance, so unless the Dyson Sphere is constructed at a relatively small scale, close to the star on all sides, tending towards roasting any inhabitants (plus you'll probably want some of the inner surface of it to grow produce), the Dyson Sphere will probably need to generate its own gravity.

Spinning the sphere slightly will provide enough gravity-like inertia effects at the equator, but the "poles" (in relation to the spin) will be relatively uninhabitable, moving rapidly in circles, providing very little gravity effect. Therefore, some sort of artificial "field" gravity generator would probably be best to maximize habitable area.

On the other hand, there may be more than enough space for people along the sphere's equator, leaving large swaths of surface area for energy collection of the star. After all, maximum energy capture of the star's radiant energy is the primary purpose of the Dyson Sphere.

With so much of the star's energy absorbed and hidden by the sphere, this would be a powerful, if expensive way to hide a large population from a known (or most unknown types of) threat.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

joshspaceboy ,

Did you experience a massive slow-down and freeze of your system while making the original sphere?

My i7 with 16Gigs of ram freezes when using helpers that large.

 

[DeepspaceMechanic]

The force of gravity drops with the square of distance, so unless the Dyson Sphere is constructed at a relatively small scale, close to the star on all sides, tending towards roasting any inhabitants (plus you'll probably want some of the inner surface of it to grow produce), the Dyson Sphere will probably need to generate its own gravity.

Spinning the sphere slightly will provide enough gravity-like inertia effects at the equator, but the "poles" (in relation to the spin) will be relatively uninhabitable, moving rapidly in circles, providing very little gravity effect. Therefore, some sort of artificial "field" gravity generator would probably be best to maximize habitable area.

On the other hand, there may be more than enough space for people along the sphere's equator, leaving large swaths of surface area for energy collection of the star. After all, maximum energy capture of the star's radiant energy is the primary purpose of the Dyson Sphere.

With so much of the star's energy absorbed and hidden by the sphere, this would be a powerful, if expensive way to hide a large population from a known (or most unknown types of) threat.

Spoiler: Off-topic about realistic Dyson Spheres

I looked up and calculated a few things today, and it turns out that a solid Dyson Sphere with an exterior surface at about 5 solar radii from the center of the Sun, would have 1g of gravity (directed towards the center, of course; also, this is if only the mass of the Sun is taken into account, with the additional mass of the artificial shell disregarded).

With such a setup, the entire interior surface would gather radiation, convert it to needed energy forms, and transfer it to the temperature-regulated habitation/industrial areas of the exterior surface.

They say that such a shell would have no net gravitational interaction with the Sun, due to the Shell theorem, at least under idealised circumstances. And even if it would, unevenness of mass distribution within the shell would require some form of active balancing, so that no part of the structure would be under a stronger net force, causing that part to move closer to the Sun, while simultaneously pushing away opposite parts, eventually resulting in an unimaginably violent collision. While, with no net gravity, the shell would drift independently ( just like the Sun, around the Milky Way's CoM), with a potential of being decentralized by the planets' gravity.

I wonder what would this lack of net gravitational interaction between the Sun and the co-centric shell mean with regards to the possibility of putting the shell into orbit. (Impossible?)

If it were possible to put such a closed, rigid, co-centric shell into orbit, that would mess with the plan of having outer surface gravity, right? Maybe rocket-propelling it to above-orbital speeds of spinning would create an equatorial strip with proper inner surface outward gravity of 1g (that would have to centrifugally overcome the Sun's inward gravity too, of course). But I bet the radiation intensity would prove way too much at only ~3 million kilometers from the Sun's surface.

So it seems like living on its outside would be the more feasible alternative, with some kind of immensely powerful, omnidirectional thruster system to stabilize the shell in relation to the Sun.

I probably piled up some amount of errors and misunderstandings here, and would be curious about your thoughts on all this

 

[joshspaceboy]

joshspaceboy ,

Did you experience a massive slow-down and freeze of your system while making the original sphere?

My i7 with 16Gigs of ram freezes when using helpers that large.

I did but I recently upgraded to 32 gigs. I find it runs at about 20 FPS when using build helpers around that size, no matter which setting you use. It also depends on how much of it you are looking at as sometimes bigger spheres would actually lag less because the smaller spheres were blocking some of the view. I think the real reason my ram helped was because it drains a lot less power than my previous ram did as it still was only taking up like 14 in the usage and that’s when I have as much as possible loaded in the game.

 

[joshspaceboy]

DeepspaceMechanic, that’s an interesting summary. I imagine it would make more sense to live on the outside in order to use 100% of the interior for collecting energy. To live on the interior I suppose it would only work if you were 1au from the star and if you made it a central band that spins to create artificial gravity. A smaller radius is more efficient of course but making the sphere at 1au makes thing easier in terms of heat. The rest of the interior can then be used for energy collection. If you wanted you could even have the band shaped in a way that creates seasons I think. I don’t know how feasible it is but with a star powering the entire thing it probably would be able to do some crazy stuff. Either way I do wonder if it would actually be worth the enormous cost and energy it would take to make something like this, if you could even gather the necessary resources. As far as other bodies of gravity interfering you could use computers to correct with thrusters, ow just blow them up. I mean if you have the energy of an entire star you might as well be shooting Death Star beams at anything that gets in your way.
I imagine you would need some sort of magnetic shield and special atmosphere to keep all the radiation from killing everyone on the surface too, and I’m sure there are 100 other problems with it as well.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

I did but I recently upgraded to 32 gigs. I find it runs at about 20 FPS when using build helpers around that size, no matter which setting you use. It also depends on how much of it you are looking at as sometimes bigger spheres would actually lag less because the smaller spheres were blocking some of the view. I think the real reason my ram helped was because it drains a lot less power than my previous ram did as it still was only taking up like 14 in the usage and that’s when I have as much as possible loaded in the game.

If you're interested, I've put together a "brief" instruction set on artificial planet building on my shipyard thread.

I find the methods speed up construction substantially and are highly usable with Dyson Spheres. You're welcome to stop by if you think some of it may be of use to you.

 

[joshspaceboy]

Dr. Whammy, Thanks I appreciate it! I’m still fairly new to the game and I seem to be younger than most content creators so advice is always well appreciated. Unfortunately a lot of things I’ve had to figure out on my own through constant experimentation due to the way things use to work and most of the players quitting right before I found out about this game. Wish I could have played it in its hay day.