Suggested Double+ symmetry

[CRS]

Hi, first post and new to starmade.

A feature i'd like to see in the game is more symmetry planes at the same time.

(everything on this example is on the same axis): for example u can place a "mother" symmetry plane and then place more symmetry planes on the sides. so with 3 planes total 1 in middle and 2 mirrored on the side u place a block on the secondary plane, it is mirrored and then the whole thing gets mirrored by the "mother" plane.

English is not my mother language so forgive me for mistakes and i hope you can make sense of what i try to say.

 

[Lukwan]

Welcome to the dock CRS. Good post. As usual SM attracts quality gamers.

I could make great use of this feature and it could speed up my builds considerably. Here are a few other symmetry threads just for fun:

90 degree symmetry mode

Rotational Symmetry

Read by Council - Symmetry Improovement Discussion

hey, this idea looks a little familiar
Secondary Symmetry

Bottom line here for me is this: Improving symmetry-mode options (and templates) will have a huge effect on building speed and efficiency. More blocks placed with less button-clicks is always a good option to have.

 

[CRS]

Heh, i'm not good with forums since i don't use em almost at all, but i fell compelled to post this since i love the game so far and i want it to get better! So sorry if that's a double post or something and yeah that secondary symmetry post is what i mean!
I stll have built only a couple ships but it feels i have to make a few too many moves and clicks too build what i want, build system needs some work i think. More mouse friendly maybe?(look at empyrion: ctrl+mouse drag makes planes of blocks/ ctrl+shift+mouse drag makes cubes, really usefull in my opinion and faster than using those x,y,z sliders but less accurate ofc)

 

[HolyCookie]

CRS I'm sorry to disappoint you but reality doesn't want you to break its laws.
The suggestion won't work and there is an easy way for you to find out. Either you can do a tiny experiment or you can click the spoiler.
Set up 2 mirrors parallel to each other. Now look into one.

Spoiler: If you aren't up for an experiment

https://cdn.drawception.com/images/panels/2012/4-9/ybKLA3xDxp-8.png
http://homepages.uel.ac.uk/1953r/mirror.jpg
The 2 symmetry lines will work like mirrors extending an action into infinity ultimately crashing your game/computer

Lukwan maybe you also want to see that.

Ps: Welcome CRS :D

 

[jayman38]

CRS I'm sorry to disappoint you but reality doesn't want you to break its laws.
The suggestion won't work and there is an easy way for you to find out. Either you can do a tiny experiment or you can click the spoiler.
Set up 2 mirrors parallel to each other. Now look into one.
...

Um, no, he's talking about this, which should be perfectly within the realm of possibility. (Solid red line represents the mother symmetry plane. The dashed red lines represent the child symmetry planes.)



With this layout, you would only build one half of one engine, and both sides of both engines would be built at the same time.

 

[HolyCookie]

With this layout, you would only build one half of one engine, and both sides of both engines would be built at the same time.

And then when the other 1.5 engine is placed the other symmitry line will copy that and then that that has been copied will be copied by another symmetry line and so on. it doesn't work.

phase 0: | |
phase 1: . | |
phase 2: . | . | .
phase 3: . . | . | .
Phase 4: . .| . | . .
phase 5: computer in flames

 

[jayman38]

And then when the other 1.5 engine is placed the other symmitry line will copy that and then that that has been copied will be copied by another symmetry line and so on. it doesn't work.

phase 0: | |
phase 1: . | |
phase 2: . | . | .
phase 3: . . | . | .
Phase 4: . .| . | . .
phase 5: computer in flames

The computer will only mirror once for each level and because it all starts with a "mother" symmetry plane, there will only ever be an odd number of planes overall. (Unless Schine were to implement some sort of recursive mirroring algorithm, which they would have NO REASON at all to do, for exactly this reason.) The mirroring would end with the 1.5 engine copy.

This is one of the blessings of computer simulation of the universe. You can catch and discard infinite feedback loops. (Anyone who has ever programmed an infinite loop by mistake knows this.)

 

[_Naperone_]

Yes, I've looked forward to something like this before while building engine nacelles, I think it would be pretty handy, especially on all axis's (axi?) . HolyCookie is correct that if the current symmetry plane mechanics were simply copied, it would give your comp an aneurysm. But, in the way CRS and jayman38 explained it, the system would work because the mother symmetry line would copy it over instead of the secondary planes mirroring eachother.

 

[Megacrafter127]

And then when the other 1.5 engine is placed the other symmitry line will copy that and then that that has been copied will be copied by another symmetry line and so on. it doesn't work.

phase 0: | |
phase 1: . | |
phase 2: . | . | .
phase 3: . . | . | .
Phase 4: . .| . | . .
phase 5: computer in flames

I think people are more thinking about this:
¦ | ¦ //initial setup. the child mirror plane is mirrored by the parent plane
¦.| ¦ //place block
.¦.| ¦ //child mirror plane first. the child mirror plane's range does not extend beyond the parent's plane
.¦.|.¦. //parent mirror second. blocks changed by a parent will not be mirrored by a child
.¦.|.¦. //final result, as every level of planes had been iterated over.

 

[Lukwan]

The endless mirroring should be easy be easy to avoid. Like with some Digital Right Management systems: make a copy (mirror) from an original but not from a copy. Why wouldn't it just keep track of the chain of mirrors? I think our computers are better than the old Star Trek trope of: 'cause the robots/super computer to overheat by providing conflicting inputs'. Ya we made a computer to govern an entire planet and enslave the population but we never quite got around to inventing the simple fuse (or circuit breaker) doh!

For SM we could just perform the mirroring in two passes one after the other.

 

[HolyCookie]

If you put it that way, yea that could work. But I'm not too sure about the saving if it is a copied version or not, doesn't that require quite some data?

 

[CRS]

I think people are more thinking about this:
¦ | ¦ //initial setup. the child mirror plane is mirrored by the parent plane
¦.| ¦ //place block
.¦.| ¦ //child mirror plane first. the child mirror plane's range does not extend beyond the parent's plane
.¦.|.¦. //parent mirror second. blocks changed by a parent will not be mirrored by a child
.¦.|.¦. //final result, as every level of planes had been iterated over.

That's what i mean. Basically so u can have more than 2 mirror planes: 1st mirror plane u place is tier 1, 2nd is tier 2, 3rd is tier 3 etc. , now tier 2 is slave to tier1 and tier 3 to tier 2. Also when u place a block between two tiers it mirrors to the innermost(closest to tier1) plane to avoid bad stuff happening like if u place a block between tier2 and 3 and it gets mirrored by both at the same time. And finally lets say i build outside of tier 3 , it first gets mirrored by the tier 3 plane and the in steps by its subsequent plane until it gets mirrored by the mother plane.
I hope this make sense!

Also it's nice to see interest in my suggestion hope it gets in the game! :D

 

[Malacodor]

And then when the other 1.5 engine is placed the other symmitry line will copy that and then that that has been copied will be copied by another symmetry line and so on. it doesn't work.

phase 0: | |
phase 1: . | |
phase 2: . | . | .
phase 3: . . | . | .
Phase 4: . .| . | . .
phase 5: computer in flames

I explained how the math behind double symmetry would work here, it could even be done with a parser and a user made text file.

 

[Jojomo]

I think perhaps the easiest way to do this is instead of having active mirrors like now, there was a mirror function that you used after building one half: you select the mirror function, create a bounding box around the area to be mirrored, and then select the plane to mirror it around.

So for the OP you would do one of the child mirrors first, then entire select the result and mirror it around the parent symmetry plane.

So if this was the target result: (|).|.(|) where ( and ) are identical parts of the ship but mirrored, | are mirror planes, and . is empty space.

1. (|..|..|. build one half of a half
2. (|).|..|. mirror it around a child plane
3. (|).|.(|) mirror the entire half around the centre parent plane

It would require slightly more work to use than auto mirror (perhaps), but it would be much more powerful.

 

[Madman198237]

Guys, month-old thread necro on a repeated suggestion? For no real gain in value? This thread had already ascertained that using a logical setup of mirrors precludes any problems. Discussion over.

Sorry, I had to be a pain somewhere today.

 

[Lukwan]

A month isn't necro is it? I mean...the body is still warm.

 

[Malacodor]

Guys, month-old thread necro on a repeated suggestion? For no real gain in value? This thread had already ascertained that using a logical setup of mirrors precludes any problems. Discussion over.

Sorry, I had to be a pain somewhere today.

The forums have a necro warning system now, which is triggered when the last post is older than 3 months afaik. As long as there's no such warning message it isn't a necropost.

 

[Madman198237]

........Fine then.