Don't you think that push/pull/stop effects are weak?

[jijiji]

Don't you think that push/pull/stop effects are weak? They can do anything only when have a lot of damage.

I made a test: to stop enemy ship, you need bigger one (may be 1.25-5 times). It works only if your ship/turret is bigger than enemy ship. Else it is useless.

What do you think?

 

[Spoolooni]

Don't you think that push/pull/stop effects are weak? They can do anything only when have a lot of damage.

I made a test: to stop enemy ship, you need bigger one (may be 1.25-5 times). It works only if your ship/turret is bigger than enemy ship. Else it is useless.

What do you think?

They're not weak and certainly boast some formidable uses. However, docked armor mitigate most of their effects and this appears to be a bug on Starmade's part. So no, I doubt we need to buff them, nor can we evaluate them until they can actually work against docked armor.

 

[Mork2]

Other than docked modules negating the hits the other issue is that stop doesn't seem to stop anything just reduce the entities thrust.... Unless this has changed since last I looked at it.

 

[nightrune]

They might be a bit too weak, but damage doesn't have as much to do with it as the number of ticks that get proc'd You need something like beam/cannon/pull, or beam/cannon/stop to really get the full effect.

 

[DrTarDIS]

Other than docked modules negating the hits the other issue is that stop doesn't seem to stop anything just reduce the entities thrust.... Unless this has changed since last I looked at it.

In my experience Stop is OP-as-F, since it "breaks" TURNING as well as momentum. it's my go-to weapon for "getting behind and STAYING behind" anyone.
THe passive effects of push and pull are also invaluable on larger ships, as they let you "fix" the retarded thrust-curve to some extent.

 

[Mork2]

Stop does degrade thrust which includes turning. I should have explained better. If its already moving and not using thrusters actively, but just coasting stop does nothing to it.

I have made a small tug boat with pull push and stop beams. The problem is if you get a object up to speed with push or pull you can't stop it with the stop beam. Stop will only counteract active thrust on the entity, not the momentum of it already moving. Consequently I had to use the push or pull in the opposite of which direction it was moving to bring it to a near stop.

 

[DrTarDIS]

Stop does degrade thrust which includes turning. I should have explained better. If its already moving and not using thrusters actively, but just coasting stop does nothing to it.

I have made a small tug boat with pull push and stop beams. The problem is if you get a object up to speed with push or pull you can't stop it with the stop beam. Stop will only counteract active thrust on the entity, not the momentum of it already moving. Consequently I had to use the push or pull in the opposite of which direction it was moving to bring it to a near stop.

try a stop machine gun instead of beam

 

[Mork2]

I tried the machine gun as well I think and it didn't work for me either. Has that changed since I last tried?

 

[jijiji]

They're not weak and certainly boast some formidable uses

You should test it:

1. Make 100 mass plate
2. Make weapon with 100 mass and push effect
3. Fire once
4. Calculate ratio impulse/damage (dV*m/damage)
5. Calculate how much big weapon you need to change it's speed at least 25 m/s, because ships can accelerate 25 m/s and more
6. Reply to this thread

 

[Az14el]

Stop effect is bugged and extremely powerful in certain weapon combo
Push & Pull have their uses but I think could stand to have a little more power as tertiary effects on weapons

 

[Edymnion]

When combined with other weapons? No, they're quite good.

I put secondary cannon/cannon/stop on my cannon turrets to great effect. Not because they help that turret hit, but because it locks the target down so that bigger dumbfire missile/cannon turrets can rip them apart with ease.

 

[Benevolent27]

The effects are bugged. They seem to go by the power it takes to fire them, not the damage values. Try making a waffle of 300 fast firing outputs.. and voila, instastop of ships 5 times your size. (Provided your turret can hit them)

 

[jijiji]

The effects are bugged. They seem to go by the power it takes to fire them, not the damage values. Try making a waffle of 300 fast firing outputs.. and voila, instastop of ships 5 times your size. (Provided your turret can hit them)

I tested it with AI, it don't works

 

[Benevolent27]

I tested it with AI, it don't works

Sure it does. My ships use stop turrets with "select target." Stops ships very well, but also creates lag due to the sheer number of projectiles.

 

[Az14el]

The effects are bugged. They seem to go by the power it takes to fire them, not the damage values. Try making a waffle of 300 fast firing outputs.. and voila, instastop of ships 5 times your size. (Provided your turret can hit them)

With cannons it's pretty much more power cost = more stop, still classically terrible for hitting small fast enemies (though the select fire helps a shitload for sure), unfortunately beams don't have the same effect

+1 to docked hull!

 

[Benevolent27]

With cannons it's pretty much more power cost = more stop, still classically terrible for hitting small fast enemies (though the select fire helps a shitload for sure), unfortunately beams don't have the same effect

+1 to docked hull!

Beams seem to aim at the outside edges of a ship, and often will track off of the target ship, thus only part of the beam actually affects the ship. If the tracking worked better, beams would be the best for this, but unfortunately that is not the case. But, in any case, I think the strength of a stop effect weapon should rely on the damage value, not the power value. I think a coder at Schine got things mixed up when they implemented this and never bothered to fix it.

 

[DrTarDIS]

Beams seem to aim at the outside edges of a ship, and often will track off of the target ship, thus only part of the beam actually affects the ship. If the tracking worked better, beams would be the best for this, but unfortunately that is not the case. But, in any case, I think the strength of a stop effect weapon should rely on the damage value, not the power value. I think a coder at Schine got things mixed up when they implemented this and never bothered to fix it.

I've also noticed that beams only apply momentum if they are within the BASIC beam's range. a b/b/s will HIT at max range, but only apply momentum at the same range as a b/-/s. Havn't tested in in 2 patches so MAY have been fixed, but I doubt it

 

[Benevolent27]

I've also noticed that beams only apply momentum if they are within the BASIC beam's range. a b/b/s will HIT at max range, but only apply momentum at the same range as a b/-/s. Havn't tested in in 2 patches so MAY have been fixed, but I doubt it

Oh, that's interesting. Good to know DrTardis!

 

[MacThule]

Beyond docked entities (even detached DEs like shot-off turrets) being immune to support effects, I think that a big part of why people are getting different results (from Pull, at least) is about thrust.

With a 250 mass Cc-Pull weapon, I can yank a 10K mass ship over very fast.

That same weapon though can only drag a 100 mass Trade Faction fighter that is actively trying to maintain its position about 1 meter every 2-3 seconds. Which is absolutely useless. I'm not even sure what the ration of pull effect to T:M ratio is needed to overcome thrust, but it's extreme. If this was Star Wars, the entire Death Star would have to have been devoted to their stupid tractor beam just to pull the Millenium Falcon in if it actively resisted. Would've just been called the Suck Star.

 

[Sachys]

the Suck Star.

O____o

I KNEW YOU WERE MEL BROOKS ALL ALONG!