Read by Council Docked Subsystem Integration

[En_Dotter]

Hello all. I have been thinking about some ship designs just to realize there would be no way i can put them into practice since it would involve integration of docked entities into main structure. My suggestion in simple words is the ability to make some docked entities integral part of the main craft, which would make that docked entity unable to undock (except in shipyard), unable to be controlled by ai module (if it is a turret) and to be able to act as the integral part of the main craft when it comes to power and shields as well as to contribute to every stat the main craft has.

I will try to explain this in a bit more detail:

My suggestion revolves around ship building modularity as a primary motivator, and aesthetics as a consequence if this system is to be implemented. Imagine you have a medium or a small spaceship (limited space for systems basically) and you cant fit a lot of various systems into it, but in some situations you realize it would be nice if you could swap some systems with some other. At this point (to my knowledge) you would need to build a new spaceship with different systems or you would need to delete one of the existing systems and add blocks for the one you want. Now imagine if you would design a system on totally different craft and just dock it to the main craft and with a click of a button you integrate it, meaning its no longer a "docked" entity but an integral part of the ship as if it was there from the beginning of crafting. Ill give an example: Lets say you have missiles as one of the weapons in your main craft. Now choose a secondary weapon system to combine with missiles and lets say it is cannons. As you know it shoots dumb fire rockets and its all good. At one point you realize (for whatever reason) you would like to change the cannons with beams to make it homing. Usual approach would be deleting cannons and replacing them with beams. With Docked System Integration you would have a lot less pain doing so: Cannons would be on a different entity which you would dock and integrate. After integration you connect the computers to make a desired effect. To change the effect you would undock it (in the shipyard) and dock a different one (beams in this case), integrate it and connect the computers.

This was just a simple illustration of how this system work and how it could potentially benefit players. Possibilities with this system would be, in my opinion, amazing - easier ship design, ship expansion over time, maybe even making some shape changing crafts that dont lose on stats because they got bunch of docked entities.

Tnx for reading, and please leave feedback. Also if i wasnt clear on the idea just ask some questions and i will try to explain myself better.

 

[nightrune]

I see what your asking for, and for the most part I agree. For right now though, have you tried the remove replace filter in advanced build mode?

 

[En_Dotter]

You make a good point but it doesnt work always. I did use that feature many times but it is quite limited. It only works if u are going to replace things in 1:1 ratio. Also, if your packing in the ship is tight, it is really tedious to change the number of parts you are replacing. For example, what if i use one module (module being a dockable entity to replace/add a system) for shields and another for some other system and u need to change one, but your power is too low to support both systems efficiently and you would need to change both to make it viable - u are adding more shields but you will also reduce the weapon system. Also what if u want to reduce/increase the effect of a subsystem? It is easier to remove existing and install a smaller/bigger one than to try to delete parts through other blocks.
Replace tool is amazing but not good enough for every situation.

EDIT: You stated you agreed for them most part. Could you please state what parts you dont agree with? It is really helpful to see how other ppl think on the topic in order to improve the suggestion, or, even scrap it.

 

[godmars]

Really hoping for something like this to come into place down the road. I dont know if its a non issue the bigger you build or something but at the scale I mess around with, using a lot of docked entities severely gimps whatever it is you're making. Which is no good if you need a ship with a movable frame or whatever

 

[jayman38]

I would like this, because I have several ship designs in mind that would have an undockable shuttle as the command module.

Example: A fighter that can dock to a hyperspace ring. The fighter itself doesn't have hyperspace capability, but when docked to the ring, can make a hyperspace jump.

Another example from the Star Trek universe: a dockable "saucer section" which serves as the command module for the rest of the ship, which would include weapon systems, a bigger FTL drive, more thrusters, more shields, more power generation, etc., etc., etc..

 

[Lecic]

My main problem with encouraging multi-entity ships is that the more entities you have, the more lag you have. If you can make modular ships work without increasing entity count, then sure, I'm all for it.

 

[jayman38]

My main problem with encouraging multi-entity ships is that the more entities you have, the more lag you have. If you can make modular ships work without increasing entity count, then sure, I'm all for it.

2 Issues:
1. Modular ships, by definition, use multiple entities. (This may be your point, and that you would never support modular ships. Is that your intent?)
2. Ships already consist of many entities, including turrets, doors, and the ever-popular docked reactor solution to the energy generation limitation. This means that ships are already modular and use multiple entities. So your concern is already invalidated by existing game mechanics. Yes, the modular ships we have increase lag, but they exist, so discouraging them at this point is like trying to stuff the genie back in the bottle.

 

[Lecic]

2 Issues:
1. Modular ships, by definition, use multiple entities. (This may be your point, and that you would never support modular ships. Is that your intent?)
2. Ships already consist of many entities, including turrets, doors, and the ever-popular docked reactor solution to the energy generation limitation. This means that ships are already modular and use multiple entities. So your concern is already invalidated by existing game mechanics. Yes, the modular ships we have increase lag, but they exist, so discouraging them at this point is like trying to stuff the genie back in the bottle.

1. There could be a way to make a more permanent connection, similar to the merge block system in Space Engineers.
2. Lag already existing is not a good reason to add even more lag. I'd prefer if the game moved to a non-docked system to replace docked reactors, also.

 

[GRHayes]

Hello all. I have been thinking about some ship designs just to realize there would be no way i can put them into practice since it would involve integration of docked entities into main structure. My suggestion in simple words is the ability to make some docked entities integral part of the main craft, which would make that docked entity unable to undock (except in shipyard), unable to be controlled by ai module (if it is a turret) and to be able to act as the integral part of the main craft when it comes to power and shields as well as to contribute to every stat the main craft has.

I will try to explain this in a bit more detail:

My suggestion revolves around ship building modularity as a primary motivator, and aesthetics as a consequence if this system is to be implemented. Imagine you have a medium or a small spaceship (limited space for systems basically) and you cant fit a lot of various systems into it, but in some situations you realize it would be nice if you could swap some systems with some other. At this point (to my knowledge) you would need to build a new spaceship with different systems or you would need to delete one of the existing systems and add blocks for the one you want. Now imagine if you would design a system on totally different craft and just dock it to the main craft and with a click of a button you integrate it, meaning its no longer a "docked" entity but an integral part of the ship as if it was there from the beginning of crafting. Ill give an example: Lets say you have missiles as one of the weapons in your main craft. Now choose a secondary weapon system to combine with missiles and lets say it is cannons. As you know it shoots dumb fire rockets and its all good. At one point you realize (for whatever reason) you would like to change the cannons with beams to make it homing. Usual approach would be deleting cannons and replacing them with beams. With Docked System Integration you would have a lot less pain doing so: Cannons would be on a different entity which you would dock and integrate. After integration you connect the computers to make a desired effect. To change the effect you would undock it (in the shipyard) and dock a different one (beams in this case), integrate it and connect the computers.

This was just a simple illustration of how this system work and how it could potentially benefit players. Possibilities with this system would be, in my opinion, amazing - easier ship design, ship expansion over time, maybe even making some shape changing crafts that dont lose on stats because they got bunch of docked entities.

Tnx for reading, and please leave feedback. Also if i wasnt clear on the idea just ask some questions and i will try to explain myself better.

Basically you are looking for an easy way to swap out components by having a way to make them modular and only able to be removed in a shipyard.

Well considering that you mentioned a shipyard why not create two ship patterns and simply dock the ship and have it rebuild with the second pattern. Granted that may take more time.

OR

Another option is have the shipyard replace a system with another system automatically now that would be sweet. Then you wouldn't be even limited to making a system modular. It would be sort of like star-trek in that new equipment could be beamed into location and just would need to be connected. Technically that could be automated as well.

 

[Lukwan]

-Inherit thrusters is now a reality.
-Wireless remote allows inter-entity logic-links.
-Using Copy and then Save will store 'Templates' (advanced build-mode) for later use. Once 'Copy' or 'Load' is used you can Paste your templates multiple times and change their orientation. You can keep a number of different templates around for building. Note: the template will become a permanent part of the entity it is pasted onto (pretty sure).

-Last time I tried this I was able to dock a ship onto a Rail-turret-Axis and then set it's Bobby AI to function like a turret (with axial-rotation limitations). Alternatively you could dock a ship on a rail-basic and design it's weapons to be 'Dumb-fired' (straight line/no aiming) remotely from the toolbar of the Mother-Ship using Wireless remote and clever logic.

Point is...with imagination, many of our wild ideas can Already be implemented in the vanilla version of SM while still in Alpha.
Pretty impressive Schine!

Cheers,
Lukwan

 

[Lord_Greyscale]

-Inherit thrusters is now a reality.

But, due to the dilligent efforts of the dev team, Docked thrusters now actively harm your ship, in that you get less thrust from the docked ship than you would if you built all those thrusters into the main ship.
T1020 Diminishing returns of Inherited Thrust is based off the dock, not mothership
Note the comment from Spunkie on the 14th of January.

Great way to kill creativity guys. Two thumbs Waaaaaaaaaaay Up!
And yes, I get that it was being abused.
That tends to happen in any game, and it was only "bad" due to how much of a boost it was. (had it been no difference at all, it likely still would have been used, simply because that makes it vastly, vastly easier to field-repair a Titan, and thus gt it back into the war quicker.)

 

[godmars]

Not sure what you're getting at. The way it works now is clearly not intentional. Though if it doesn't get fixed by next build i will be sad ):

 

[Crimson-Artist]

Its a good idea but ultimately redundant as we have various work arounds already in place. this is similar to an idea i had about slaving docked entities in order to both increase the powers of the mothership and as a means of cleaning up the nav menu so that it only shows the things that you want it to show.

 

[Nauvran]

But, due to the dilligent efforts of the dev team, Docked thrusters now actively harm your ship, in that you get less thrust from the docked ship than you would if you built all those thrusters into the main ship.
T1020 Diminishing returns of Inherited Thrust is based off the dock, not mothership
Note the comment from Spunkie on the 14th of January.

Great way to kill creativity guys. Two thumbs Waaaaaaaaaaay Up!
And yes, I get that it was being abused.
That tends to happen in any game, and it was only "bad" due to how much of a boost it was. (had it been no difference at all, it likely still would have been used, simply because that makes it vastly, vastly easier to field-repair a Titan, and thus gt it back into the war quicker.)

as far as I remember it was supposed to only give the same thrust as if you placed the thrusters on the main ship.
But yes they fucked it up a bit and so what? It will get fixed at some point.