Do we need yet another crafting overhaul?

[PizzaPress]

However, combining a small amount of a material from another part of the galaxy doubles the efficiency, yielding two metal capsules per ore.

this is just
I will hoard so much stuff
pls don't

 

[kupu]

Would it be so bad to use existing elements like iron, copper, gold, aluminium?

It suddenly sets a precedent of real worldly aspects that have never been referenced or adhered to before in the game.

 

[therimmer96]

I'm really lazy, so I am going to respond to the title rather than anything in the thread. I am too lazy to read because I am an arsehole. Forgive me if I restate shit

No. Crafting and factories are fine imo. They are just complicated enough to be fun for end game people, and simple enough for new players, and they provide a good base for mods should people want a more expansive system.

What is needed, and is planned, is a resource collection overhaul. Crafting is fine, the issue is the collection of resources. We need a way to passively collect resources rather than being forced to either spend all of our time mining or stop progressing past a certain point.

The game has gone to the 2 extremes for resource collection, 2 years ago with infinite factory loops, and today with players barely having enough resources to do anything. finding a balance between these is the key to fixing the issues with resources and crafting, not yet another pointless overhaul.

 

[BiGEdge]

In my opinion,
I liked it a little more complicated like it was a few month ago. But its fine like it is right now, espeatially for new players.
The only thing id like to see is resource rarity and a recicling system.

1. make resources more rare, like some resources only in systems with red or blue suns. Some resources only found in inner Galaxy systems and some at the edge of a galaxy.
With that it would be necassery to trade with factions that hold those systems.
And the more rare a resource is, the more a FAction has to work for it.

2. we need a Recicling Block to disassemble created items back into theyr components.
And we need a use for blocks like rock or dirt. Maybe get some rare components out of it too.

 

[Katorone]

I have played way too much modded minecraft personally, so I can appreciate a more complex crafting system.
However, when you look at modded minecraft, a lot of the progression here has to do with your energy generation and efficiency. Working your way up in the energy tiers allows you to make more efficient resource refining machines (ore doubling), in turn allowing you to get very rare resources more easily which can again be used in some type of ultimate power generation.
On the other hand of the spectrum of modded minecraft there are mods like Mekanism which rely on complex, expandable setups and multiblocks. You start with basic machines, and through resource gathering you build other machines and constructs that allow you to be more efficient.

Translated to StarMade, what I'd like to see in crafting progression is this:
- Tiered resources:
An example of this would be asteroids that generate within the solar radiation area. A certain amount of shield strength would be needed to stop the radiation from hitting the ship, allowing a Tier 1 shielded ship to enter this area. The resources from these asteroids could be used in the construction of the standard factory, and standard factory enhancers, and more efficient enhancers for the refineries.
Other possibilities would be resources you extract from the planet core through some kind of advanced setup. To a solar fusion injector setup that would allow you to use a star as a forge for very advanced materials.
As an alternative these materials would be available as loot, at shops and factions, giving combat or trade oriented players an alternative.

- A more balanced energy system:
What balanced energy most of all, is the use of fuel. Solar panels could be added, giving more energy the closer you are to the sun (great for powering basic stations). There could be a curve that allows players to build more complex energy generation systems, while at the same time giving players a choice between miniaturization (the size of the block), productivity (how much energy is generated per second) and efficiency (the energy generated per item of fuel).
Higher tier generators and fuels would take away the need to do manual resource gathering, in combination with the passive gathering constructions. This would also allow players to make full use of the cargo system. Factions would need to build transporters to collect these resources from the various plants and locations, meaning there are jobs to do for combat oriented players, and NPC needed to protect the player's convoys.
Some passive energy generation should always be an option, you don't want to get stranded in space when the fuel runs out.

- A higher curve to get to the next tier of technology:
Much like the tiered resources, but this could include research (which an NPC could do for you). Breaking the tier barrier should require an investment in time and resources. But once the tier is achieved, getting these resources should become a lot easier.
This research could be used to combine weapon systems. Want a cannon that fires faster? Research this path and the cannon+cannon block becomes craftable in your factory. You could still do it with the old fashioned way of linking, but researching allows you to save on space (only requiring 1 barrel instead of 2), while still being able to link them in a larger system.

- Resource refinement plants, which get more efficient as you go through the different tiers.
Grinding isn't fun for most people, though most enjoy it if it leads somewhere. Higher efficiency/productivity is a great motivator.
Added to this I'd love a way to recycle materials, and to get more resources (perhaps even different resource) from the different ores. For instance, a Tier 3 refinery could refine Macet Ore into 20 capsules and 5 crystals. These crystals could be used in the manufacturing of crystal armour.

- More factory automation:
Right now you need a very complex setup with hundreds of factories if you want a steady supply of autocrafted materials. Linked to a shipyard this is the ultimate end-game goal. However, setting up these factories isn't fun, accidentally linking the wrong factory during setup is hard to debug, or even to notice.
What would make this easier, is allowing all higher tier factories to create everything the lower tier factories can, without having to loop the factories together. Ordering a Green Crystal Armour block would craft this block from all the basic resources, instead of having to link different factories together. This also gets rid of the extra step for wedges and other partial blocks.
NPCs could be put in charge of your factory area, he could be setup in a way to make sure there are always x amount of a certain item in reserve.
Added to this could be a system that allows for easy upgrading of factories and all attached enhancers. Let's be honest, at the early game we're happy with 9 enhancers, by the time we're making anything larger than a corvette, our factories have at least 1999 enhancers added. There's no need to take up all this space, just have higher tiers of factory enhancers that do 10x, 100x or even 1000x. This allows a player to upgrade his basic factory system, so he doesn't need to be rebuilt it each tier.

- Use plants for dyes.
A good motivator to explore and find those plants, and to create manual farms first, automated farms later.

 

[jstenholt]

It suddenly sets a precedent of real worldly aspects that have never been referenced or adhered to before in the game.

I'm not sure that's a particularly strong argument in a game which constantly adds to and overhauls existing content. Plus, the current elements were at one time "never before referenced" as well. I'm just of the opinion that all these made-up things kind of unnecessarily increase the entry barrier.

 

[kupu]

I'm not sure that's a particularly strong argument in a game which constantly adds to and overhauls existing content.

Starmade has never overhauled content to emphasize "Hard Science Fiction". We have FTL, personal teleporters and infinite power generation with no real explanation of how.

To suddenly be making these things from 2 copper coils and 4 iron ingots for example, is pretty jarring considering the context of the rest of the game.

Plus, the current elements were at one time "never before referenced" as well.

Yea, that's why it works. There is absolutely no preconceptions of where Macet should be, how rare it is, or what it makes. It just is.

I'm just of the opinion that all these made-up things kind of unnecessarily increase the entry barrier.

See above. I think it's the opposite. Sometimes it's harder to unlearn.
Besides, the current resources are easily broken down into Mineral, Metal, Crystal, each have 8 colour variants. You can need "black crystal" and everybody knows what you mean, or within 5 minutes of playing can make a logical guess as to how it would look in the environment based on repeat patterns.

 

[jstenholt]

Yea, that's why it works. There is absolutely no preconceptions of where Macet should be, how rare it is, or what it makes. It just is.

I get everything you're saying, and that's all well and good, but really it seems as though the OP was about whether or not we think crafting needs an overhaul. Personally I do, and a change in nomenclature is my suggestion for doing so. So while understanding some dev reasoning behind the current system is nice, I'm not posting this to be proven wrong, I'm posting to answer OP's question, see if any Starmatadors agree with me, and perhaps getting input that could make a suggested improvement better or more viable.

If you really think the current naming system is perfect and that no better alternative could be dreamed up by the community, that's good on you. But we all know the reason you devs read these forums is because some people in this community are pretty brilliant, and that you are open to our ideas.

Also, just to clarify, me hating the current naming schtick shouldn't be taken as a personal attack on those who created it.

 

[Valiant70]

See above. I think it's the opposite. Sometimes it's harder to unlearn.
Besides, the current resources are easily broken down into Mineral, Metal, Crystal, each have 8 colour variants. You can need "black crystal" and everybody knows what you mean, or within 5 minutes of playing can make a logical guess as to how it would look in the environment based on repeat patterns.

What we need is not to change this, but to give each resource more uniqueness and flavor, such as "Black crystals are really rare except around red stars, but you need them to make advanced armor," or "White ore is really common and used in almost all machinery and computers."

 

[<SCRIPTKITTY>]

The crafting system has gone through many overhauls. At first we had a bizarre and extremely complicated system, that was not very usable. Then we got cubeatoms, which made no sense and were still not very practical. The current crafting system is certainly better than the other two, but still leaves much to be desired. It is very dull, has no real progression, and is not all that well balanced (for instance, some colors of hull need much more rare and valuable resources than others while giving the same amount of protection). I personally would like a system using at least primarily real materials, and with my suggestion for factions becoming more adept at producing certain ship elements ( http://starmadedock.net/threads/faction-specialization-to-encourage-trade.8298/).

So what do other people want changed, if anything?

So I agree with you on things like paint should all be equally expensive, and the tweaking of certain recipes but any huge overhaul is not needed as the automation elements are pretty good.

If anything I would actually like to see the use of legitimate assembly lines to make more complex things and actually being able to see items travel place to place on some sort of conveyor or thru a pipe.