Do not make this game die

[Az14el]

Big ships & Big operations take time and effort, but agreed that it might be slightly over the top on most servers considering this IS a game and not a real life thing, we're not being paid for it anyway, so some of the workload should be minimised (this is doable also via server config, servers that cut out the grind in this way see a lot more pvp because nobody cares as much about block loss)

The real issue i notice as a primarily pvp player is simply attitude, more so than losing blocks people just don't like losing. Period. Like I've probably already said, it's a very political game, and you could just make it "spawn in ships for free forever" and people would still camp out in homebases/build servers/single player to build ever bigger more powerful ships so they get to "win". I'm guilty of that too, arms races are going to be a huge part of the game until system rebalancing & combat related features are more or less finished, and even then it will just be LESS of a problem, not gone altogether.

 

[Edymnion]

The real issue i notice as a primarily pvp player is simply attitude, more so than losing blocks people just don't like losing. Period.

Yup. I'd say at least 95% of the people I've met that claim to be PvP fans don't actually like to fight, they just like to win. If they don't have an overwhelming chance at victory, they won't pick the fight in the first place.

 

[AtraUnam]

Yup. I'd say at least 95% of the people I've met that claim to be PvP fans don't actually like to fight, they just like to win. If they don't have an overwhelming chance at victory, they won't pick the fight in the first place.

My first combat experience in this game was picking a fight with an overwhelming force. :P

 

[Dragon2000]

My first combat experience was long ago when ship were able to just be bought and it was not by choice it was self defense but it was exhilarating PVP is avoided now one because people don't like to lose but another is that if you have worked on a ship for weeks to get everything working and then to have it all go up in smoke hurts (i know that pain too) but the game's balance will not change for the needs of the few to quote spock "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".

It would be nice to have an alternative way to acquire medium sized ships nothing capable of war just for fun but this would need balancing one way is maybe make it hard to find these or another cool thing would be to have randomly spawned destroyed or deactivated ships ranging possibly for insanths to maybe battle cruisers this in later updates could add to the story of the game if/when this is released it could make acquiring blocks easier and if you do not have them for blocks maybe you might use them, as your ship nothing over the top just a bit of fun.

This could also add to the idea of exploring the galaxy back on to the topic of PvP these ships or fleets could be hot spots for new player combat because hey they are resources and they are needed for everyone PVP is not essential to this game but it does make things interesting. I personally enjoyed PvP when there was low risk now i find it's too dangerous but it does not mean that it will not change and i hate it when people use this but i will use it its an alpha there will be (hopefully) a lot more content incoming.

 

[Crimson-Artist]

like kiraen says, the wiki is for the most part up to date however there is still a lot of work to do. Things like tutorials, pages explaining certain game mechanics, statistics of various system blocks such as effects and weapons as well as just a bunch of misc updating are what we need atm.

While I'm fairly competent at the game theres still a lot of things I need help with. mostly having to do with the statistics so I very much appreciate it if ppl who are knowledgable in these things would consider adding the information to the wiki.

 

[Alpha]

I don't get on here often, But I just wanna say I've been around a looooong time. I remember when Schema threw up the first server on a crappy laptop with 2gb of ram, And we crashed that thing with 10 players within the day. I remember when shields were bubbles, and missiles would crash the server when they hit shields. And I still don't touch the logic stuff. The game is easily playable without it, and PvP is not hard to find on most servers. Has the population dropped? Sure. A while back, it came out on steam and LOTS of new players flowed in. (Judging from your comments, I assume you are talking about this time period when you mention the population.) I'm also going to assume you have no experience with that situation. Whenever a game is decent and goes from not-on-Steam to on Steam, the population will ALWAYS skyrocket, and than plummet back down a bit later. I can say for a fact, there are more people now than before steam. New people DO join daily, just not at the previous rate. I see one or two a day on different servers. So quit being the Starmade version of an old fogey, who blames everything on all the new stuff, without considering why things were the way they used to be.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Most of the OP's complaints stem from the fact that people got bored and left in between development phases. Given that this game is in the alpha stages, this was unavoidable. The only solution for strictly PVP players is to have servers set on battle mode or one with creative mode/admin spawn rights enabled for all players. Although, you won't find me on that server.

As it stands now, player strategy is what is at fault for the lack of PVP in StarMade. Although, it's not hard to see why.

1) Big fish vs small fry: Given that so many people seem to be fiending for PVP, starting players may feel threatened by the 'bigger fish' and decide on one of two options; join an established faction or make a run for deep space.

2) Fluster cluck: Regarding that remark about all players flying to the edge of the galaxy; how exactly do you expect to collect resouces if EVERY system within a 10 system radius of the spawn sector is under the control of another player? Do you really want to fight over resources (and get pwned) THAT early in the game?

3) My repair bill is HOW high!?: Combat is expensive. If you want to fight, by all means, go right ahead. Don't complain when you have to spend resources to repair/replace your ship after a battle YOU wanted. Like-wise; if someone wants to mess with you, you'd best learn how to buy/build a bigger/better ship or some good base defenses/traps. War is expensive but it's almost never fair; plan accordingly.

4) Lag boats... Lag boats everywhere: There are a LOT of people who feel that they absolutely MUST fly a capital ship. Call it superiority, insecurity, disposable income, show-boating, over-compensation, bully complex, end-game-strategy or whatever you like but the old "bigger is better" philosophy absolutely KILLS PVP. It induces a lot of lag and makes fighting so expensive that no one dares risk losing their 100,000+ mass titan, dreadnought, Star Destroyer, etc. A buddy of mine recently took heavy damage to his capital ship and stopped playing out of frustration when he realized he didn't have the resources to fix it. Seriously; it's like "I have to get a bigger ship than anyone else so I can win StarMade..." followed by, "Oh god... I hope nothing ever happens to my giant ship... (leaves ship in space dock never to be flown again)"

I think PVP would actually work on most servers if everyone agreed not to exceed 10,000 mass on their (multi-player) ships. ...I won't hold my breath for that.

 

[Madman198237]

Agree no, be forced, well, maybe.

 

[wanzer]

"Oh god... I hope nothing ever happens to my giant ship... (leaves ship in space dock never to be flown again)"

reminds me of a saying in eve online
don't fly what you cant afford to lose

 

[Lecic]

4) Lag boats... Lag boats everywhere: There are a LOT of people who feel that they absolutely MUST fly a capital ship. Call it superiority, insecurity, disposable income, show-boating, over-compensation, bully complex, end-game-strategy or whatever you like but the old "bigger is better" philosophy absolutely KILLS PVP. It induces a lot of lag and makes fighting so expensive that no one dares risk losing their 100,000+ mass titan, dreadnought, Star Destroyer, etc. A buddy of mine recently took heavy damage to his capital ship and stopped playing out of frustration when he realized he didn't have the resources to fix it. Seriously; it's like "I have to get a bigger ship than anyone else so I can win StarMade..." followed by, "Oh god... I hope nothing ever happens to my giant ship... (leaves ship in space dock never to be flown again)"

The game has a serious problem with people putting all their eggs in one basket. There's not much that Schema can do to fix people's personal idiocy. -_-

 

[chetyre]

The game has a serious problem with people putting all their eggs in one basket. There's not much that Schema can do to fix people's personal idiocy. -_-

ok blame the players not the game if the meta is unbalanced and lead people to do stupid stuff?
any game with broken meta will be used badly by many people, not a user idioty problem

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Personally, I think warheads are the answer.

I think if warheads get a substantial buff, you'll see more players willing to use them to take on capitals (I know I would:D). You'll start to see fighter squadrons and small task forces sent out to try to take down these behemoths or at least damage them to a point where continuing the fight isn't in the best interests of the capital pilot. Players may even start to shy away from the idea of putting everything they've got into a capital; viewing it as a risk of losing a massive amount of resources due to repair bills alone...

You'll have to choose between playing smart or paying the price for building something so big and unwieldy.

 

[Madman198237]

Yeah, I've mentioned this before. I REALLY agree with Dr. Whammy.

If you read the Star Wars EU, especially the X-Wing series, you see starfighters taking on capital ships via concentrated firepower. If we buff warheads to be an advanced armor-cracking killing machine, then we'll see fighters and bombers with one-shot torpedoes become VERY useful. The only real problem is going to be restocking...but a cross-entity rail system would help with that.

Or, instead of making warheads the end-all be-all weapon system, make a new, really expensive specialized explosive that can only be carrier by smaller vessels? or perhaps just a really expense warhead for all our torpedoing needs. Also, make BOBBY AI's linked to a warhead attempt to ram the enemy they're fired at/come close to. Just like a damage-pulse and push-drive based torpedo, but with less work and more explosions.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Yeah, I've mentioned this before. I REALLY agree with Dr. Whammy.

If you read the Star Wars EU, especially the X-Wing series, you see starfighters taking on capital ships via concentrated firepower. If we buff warheads to be an advanced armor-cracking killing machine, then we'll see fighters and bombers with one-shot torpedoes become VERY useful. The only real problem is going to be restocking...but a cross-entity rail system would help with that.

Or, instead of making warheads the end-all be-all weapon system, make a new, really expensive specialized explosive that can only be carrier by smaller vessels? or perhaps just a really expense warhead for all our torpedoing needs. Also, make BOBBY AI's linked to a warhead attempt to ram the enemy they're fired at/come close to. Just like a damage-pulse and push-drive based torpedo, but with less work and more explosions.

Fighters/bombers with one shot torpedoes. Or 2... or 4... Check!

Spoiler

Restocking... Check!

Spoiler

Guided Weapons that actually hit the target... Check!

Spoiler

Did we miss anything?

 

[Madman198237]

Well, none of those are, at present, capable of serious damage to a large enemy.

Sadly.

Nice logic and designs, though.

Oh, and also, that is not the fighter restocking after a battle, but a ship with a ridiculous number of torpedoes starting a battle.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Actually, that's my 10x launcher. It's a 10 round magazine/launcher that loads into the cruiser's bays and is triggered by remote and wireless logic. The same can be done with fighters if you design it so; especially with pickup rails having been released.

The ONLY thing missing is a default damage/blast radius buff. I tested these things at about 500,000 damage via the block config.
This was the result.

Spoiler

 

[Madman198237]

It go boom?

 

[Dr. Whammy]

That ship was about 100m long and 3000-4000 mass; covered in advanced armor. It took 4-6 torpedoes on average to kill it while stationary. This weapon won't kill a capital ship (unless you pack some of these) but it will give those big fish something to worry about if they decide to muscle in on your turf.

You'll probably never hit a moving target that size with the 'dumb fire' torpedoes (they work well on stations and really slow ships) but you'd probably do well with my guided MIRV torpedo. The MIRV has no problem homing in on and catching up to a larger slower target like a capital. detonation is tricky due to dumb AI but I have mine set to remote detonate at my command.

All we need is a damage and blast radius buff. Smarter AI would be nice but I'll take what I can get.

 

[Madman198237]

Well, I say just make an AI linked to a warhead try to ram an enemy ship based on its target settings.

 

[Nickizzy]

Torpedo AI mode

Personally, I think warheads are the answer.

I think if warheads get a substantial buff, you'll see more players willing to use them to take on capitals (I know I would:D). You'll start to see fighter squadrons and small task forces sent out to try to take down these behemoths or at least damage them to a point where continuing the fight isn't in the best interests of the capital pilot. Players may even start to shy away from the idea of putting everything they've got into a capital; viewing it as a risk of losing a massive amount of resources due to repair bills alone...

You'll have to choose between playing smart or paying the price for building something so big and unwieldy.

He he he... Warheads! Finally, someone brought it up! I challenge someone to take on an AI dead(just a damage tester) semilarge ship(like Dr. Whammy's enterprize, you can find it on shatterd skies(?) if you shoot a shop) Damage 250k, radius 25. Either all torps on your ship, or an auto reload by logic(inship remotes allowed) from a carrier ship. You should not fire any weapons, unless they are all push, pull, or stop effect. Video pls?

^hey! I just made this game not boring anymore! Now you can make this game not dead by doing this, and making a "player compitions" Forum.