Ditch the Minelayer

[-Moose-]

ASSUMPTION : Mines are going to be a zero speed missile. You deploy them, they stand still, and the enemy runs into them. I assume the mines will have the same size/hitbox as a missile shot.

UNKNOWNS : Additional weapon affects, and the lifespan of a mine.

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The Minelayer is a weapon that's been planned but put on hiatus. The thing is, I don't see how a minelayer weapon in the traditional sense will have any place in StarMade.

You can only use mines if you're running away from the target. If you have to turn tail and run, the enemy likely has the upperhand shield/weapon wise. Thus the mines will either brush off their shields or they'll simply dodge the small projectile and keep going. If the mine is somehow powerful enough to do a significant amount of damage, why don't you just replace it with cannons and not run in the first place? In the mean time they'll be pelting you with their weapons all along the way. That's on top of being difficult to 'aim' in general.

In a sense we already have mines, take a missile computer, turn it around, and it will shoot missiles backwards. In fact this would be a noticeably better weapon in combat because they'll be moving and thus harder to dodge, and can be equipped with Swarm, Hulk, or Guided to be useful from all directions. Compared to what? A stand-still projectile? Give me the missiles any day.

What if the mine lasts forever? That's even worse, a long battle could have an entire sector littered with the suckers annoying other players not involved. Getting losing a chunk of your ship by a titan mine from a fight that happened three months ago doesn't sound like fun to me. And with 3 dimensions of space, how good are they really going to be at area-denial? Not to mention possible performance issues that arise from covering a sector with mines.

If Schema wants to add a minelayer weapon more power to him, but he'll have to be more creative with it than the standard boring weapon. Personally, I'd rather have the minelayer swapped out for an entirely different weapon that is much more useful in more situations.

 

[Megacrafter127]

ASSUMPTION : Mines are going to be a zero speed missile. You deploy them, they stand still, and the enemy runs into them. I assume the mines will have the same size/hitbox as a missile shot.

Based on soley that assumption, true, however, I'd like to change 1 aspect of it:
Mines have no beacon effect, but instead are just small preferably dark little balls. That way one only notices a mine if one looks for them and doesn't chace the fleeing participant full speed.

If we add that clause to the assumption, mines will indeed suddenly make some sense, since a perpetrator cannot dodge them unless he flies slowly, in which case he can't hit his target.

 

[Glutton]

There is way too much assumption. We don't know if they will be more or less power than missles. Running may give you more armor (if it has not been hit) to work with or a smaller target for the enemy to fire upon. Mines may have large hitboxes or homing capabilities. Mines are typically used for defensive situations anyway. We have no idea what is in store for the weapon, so why assume Schema is going to make something boring?

 

[Glutton]

Found this old picture when the weapon update was still being created. This may give an idea of what options mines will have

 

[Winterhome]

I seriously don't think minelayers should be implemented in the way they're listed in the old chart.
It requires that you change too much about how slaves work.


My preference for Minelayers would be that they're small, difficult to see, and have limited homing abilities (ie: they lock on and float towards a target at, maybe, 25% of the server speed limit, whenever said target enters their sensor radius or whatever). Perhaps have higher damage per block than actual "weapons" to make up for their assumed extremely low hit rate.


As for live time, that'd have to be tested out in practice on a test server rather than being really implemented right off the bat.

 

[Reilly Reese]

Mines are defensive in nature. You don't run away dropping mines. You deploy them to defend your base or make choke points.

 

[Malacodor]

Mines are defensive in nature. You don't run away dropping mines. You deploy them to defend your base or make choke points.

Good luck creating choke points in unlimited 3D space.

 

[FunnyBunny14]

You could design a station that has a massive wall around it. Whenever ships attack the only entrances to the station will be blocked by mines. The shields are very powerful, so good luck getting through with massive titan.

 

[Winterhome]

Mines are defensive in nature. You don't run away dropping mines. You deploy them to defend your base or make choke points.

Not so much in 3d space.

Also...

Space stuff at 2:50

 

[-Moose-]

There is way too much assumption. We don't know if they will be more or less power than missles. Running may give you more armor (if it has not been hit) to work with or a smaller target for the enemy to fire upon. Mines may have large hitboxes or homing capabilities. Mines are typically used for defensive situations anyway. We have no idea what is in store for the weapon, so why assume Schema is going to make something boring?

You say I make to many assumptions, but I think it's logical to conclude we're likely not going to have a weapon that can one shot a ships shields (assuming the ships are equal size). If we do, I think it's fair to say we'll have some serious balance issues.

If mines have any homing capability why don't you just turn a missile/missile computer around launch a swarm of faster moving rockets at the enemy. Even when you're not running you can still pop those things out during regular combat.

Found this old picture when the weapon update was still being created. This may give an idea of what options mines will have

(image)

Calabri (spelling? Schema's PR guy) said that the Mine's slave effects would be changed. It's part of the reason why we don't have mines right now.

Additionally, I haven't said that the slave affects of the Minelayer would be useless, only the minelayer itself. In which case we end up with another Pulsar weapon where the only use it gets is from slaves rather than the weapon itself. Certainly we would all want a useful weapon instead of another one that no one would use.

You could design a station that has a massive wall around it. Whenever ships attack the only entrances to the station will be blocked by mines. The shields are very powerful, so good luck getting through with massive titan.

This is a very, very niche use. Firstly, goodluck getting your own ships through. Secondly, if an enemy Titan is hovering outside your base, he's not looking to land his ship, he's just going to blow up your station. Finally, how much damage are those mines really going to do to a titan? Make any assumption you want, they're likely not going to blast half a titan or get through the shields.

 

[Reilly Reese]

Cough EMP Mines Cough

 

[FunnyBunny14]

I was just gling to use logic to dispense the mines. But if you want to leave them there, go right ahead.

 

[Keptick]

So, you're asking for a feature to be cancelled before it's even implemented? Why.... just why...

 

[TheKingOfSpace]

It'll end up like Pulse - situational, but useful support effects

 

[starhaiden]

if Pulsar had more range they would be very useful.
They are useful now e.g. you could use them as traps against people
protect your ship from dis-integrator bomb ships, You could create mines with pulsars, close combat