Dev build crafting overhaul discussion

[FunnyBunny14]

I'm sad that players made thr devs get rid of the long crafting recipes. Right now they just are roo short for linking to really be necessary. Only hull has a relatively long crafting tree, and that just makes the whole thing feel inconsistent. But I guess it is fine as a default crafting system. But I tell you now, I'll be working on my own version of the crafting system once this has been confirmed to be final. It should be a lot od fun, and for that reason I like this system even more. Block config, here I come!

 

[BillGHero]

I just took a look at the new set, after updating twice ( don't know why it had to go twice...).

Does anyone know which factory block has the new paint recipes? I looked in all three and didn't find any of them. Oddly enough you can see what they should be when you look at a hull recipe, but can't seem to actually select the paint recipe itself.


-Edit: Sorry. Look like the installation manager option reset itself, somehow, and was pointing to the wrong version. It's fixed. They're going to need to get the consistency locked down on this launcher. That's one bug that could cost allot of time for allot of people.

-Edit (Again). Going to have to look for or make a thread about the launcher. It claims it got the .173 build but when I run it, it says it's the .1727 build. Plus it seems to have some issues with pointers to the current game folder as well. So, cheers! It's off to find or make a thread about the launcher......

 

[OdraNoel]

ok one more little observation about the crafting before i head off to work.

i love the new scrape matireals from abandonded stations, but i feel it should take 2 or 4 peices to make a full block rather then just one. i found my self harvesting stations again rather then asteroids and got fairly rich pretty quick, not nearly as bad as before. but still enough to where i felt completely unincentivised to harvest asteroids.

in about 30 mins i had 47,000 scrape metal and crystal which gave me an equal amount of full blocks once processing in a microfabricator. would have taken me a few hours to gether the same amount from asteroids.[DOUBLEPOST=1412975354,1412975023][/DOUBLEPOST]oh also @BillGHero the crystals, ingots, and paints recipes are missing from .173, calbiri is already aware and they should be in the next dev release.

 

[BillGHero]

Yeah. When they posted an invitation for people to check out the dev build for the new recipes, I would have expected the full set to be represented for us to see. I think it's a mistake to invite people to see something that isn't even half-finished yet. Let the dev build be for people who like bleeding-edge, or give an equally big warning that the recipe set isn't even ready for a real review yet.....

I also think they should have held off on the new system from the release builds. When I first saw how complex the recipes were I thought "Oh no! Another learning curve ". But then I got used to the thoughtful and consistent pattern and sort-of fell in love with the basic shape of it. I still see the .1723 recipe set as being a better formula, over-all, for success with this game. Maybe a few tweaks to the total resources needed so we don't get bogged down too much in the gathering/salvaging phase.

Now I don't know if I want to see it till it's actually ready for me to review the whole thing. I really miss the use of intermediate-stage products in the recipes. I wouldn't miss these things if I hadn't seen them to begin with. And I might have liked the dev set better as well.

I do have one piece of constructive criticism to offer here. With so many different factory blocks it is high-time to create new textures for them. It is going to be a sore point really quick. There's no way to properly identify these blocks when they are installed without activating them and seeing which recipes are available inside. And build mode doesn't help here either. Build mode on a ship gives you a friendly little message as to which block you are pointing at. This message doesn't happen in build mode on a station.

 

[kupu]

With so many different factory blocks it is high-time to create new textures for them. It is going to be a sore point really quick.

Yup! They will be getting a new texture, of course.

 

[OdraNoel]

i agree in the sense that id like to see more intermediate items being used in recipes. however i have to note that this time around it feels a lot more "comfortable" in terms of resource cost. for the most part things are starting to feel more balanced, not too expensive, not too cheap.

but the whole point of the dev builds is specifically for us to check out these kinds of things, obviously theres going to be over sights and little issues along the way. remember this is a huge game with a little team, so somethings will slip through the cracks.

that being said however i too am waiting for the rest of the recipes (mainly crystals, ingots, and paints) to be in before i continue testing. but so far im liking the over all feel of things now more then i did before. heres hopeing circuits and motherboards also become part of the recipes

 

[FunnyBunny14]

As for the salvaging stations as main income, it is going to be hard to keep that up once you progress through the factories. Since you only can get alloyed metal mesh and crystals from scraps, you are going to need to salvage resources to. Because almost all the recipes only use capsules in the advanced factory. And those are the nicest blocks.

Ps: The post merge thing happens when you post twice after each other within a certain amount of time. I'd recommend just editing your posts to avoid that.

 

[aceface]

Please take the time to read this.

So everyone knows it's going to change, and I know how!

I suppose I need to start with what's good. So, lets start with what's good!
Great news! The crafting system no longer has huge recipes. Why? Because it gets divided into factory tiers: basic, standard and advanced. Each factory crafts different things, the advanced crafts the most advanced items. The recipes consist of no more than 3 steps as for everything but hull: the maximum I found for (everything but hull) is from refinery to micro assembler to factory. Simple, right?
Some names have also changed, and what previously was used a lot now is only used as decorative block (charged crystal circuit, etc.).

What's not so good:
The recipes seem way too short. There is only a challenge in making a production line for hull. All the other blocks, even blocks like bobby ai and the build block, only have short recipes. Now there is no real point in making factories anymore.
I'd like to see recipes have at least one more step, but preferably two (so five in total, resulting in: refinery -> assembler -> factory 1 -> factory 2 -> factory 3). Any more would just be too long. But I would like to have to make factories for the advanced blocks with neat assembly lines.

I propose that:

• The basic only has 3 steps max, so: refiney -> assembler -> factory 1
• The standard has 4 steps max, so: refinery -> assembler -> factory 1 -> factory 2
• The advanced has 5 steps max, so: refinery -> assembler -> factory 1 -> factory 2 -> factory 3
• The additional steps require no more than 1 or 2 (preferably 1) item(s) with a very low amount of steps, preferably only 1 or 2.
• Most blocks in the standard and advanced factory have the maximum amount of steps, some very basic items could of course have a lower amount of steps.

Factory 1 is the basic factory, 2 the standard and 3 the advanced.


Oh, I almost forgot. @Calbiri you currently can't craft the standard and advanced factories. Is that intentional or did you forget or not have time to add them? It would be nice if you could get every block in the game through crafting, including the factories.

recipes are good please don't change

 

[FunnyBunny14]

recipes are good please don't change

They need changing. The only thing wrong with the dev build system is the extremely short recipes, because they make linked factories practically useless.
That is why I want to make the length be 1 step for recipes in the basic factory, 2 steps by standard and 3 steps by advanced. The longest chain (so for the advanced factory) would be 4 linked factories (refinery -> basic factory -> standard factory -> advanced factory), and the blocks that get added to that chain would have a crafting tree with a maximum of 2 steps (1 step if it only comes from the refinery and 2 steps for refinery -> basic factory). That way it wouldn't be so crowded in the tree.

Oh, and this is with the new information we have on crafting. I will be editing the OP to display an updated version of my idea (so my suggestion works with the current functions of the refinery).

Edit: Changed. Be sure to check it out, and let me know when you disagree (if you agreed before you most likely won't disagree now, it was just a minor change).

 

[aceface]

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

[FunnyBunny14]

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Wait... What? You liked the OP, why are you saying no? And what are you saying no to? Did you like the OP because it encouraged discussing or because of my idea?

 

[aceface]

bunny i don't want it to take ten years to craft

 

[FunnyBunny14]

@aceface
No no no no no no no! All I want is for the advanced blocks to have a slightly longer tree so factories get a use again! You can speed up the process with factory enhancers, and then it really won't take long. I don't want the prices changed, I just want the standard to have 2 steps and the advanced factories 3 steps. The basic items MUST stay the same, and the prices too.

 

[OdraNoel]

about the scrapes thing, yes capsules are veyr important now, but lets not underplay the importance ofthe meshes as well. with about 50,000 meshes and crystals in 30 mins i was able to scale up my salvaging rig to ridiculous proportions in no time. (salvs and power blocks only need meshes and crystals) i did another play though and ignored stations and my growth felt a lot more organic and paced.

so yes, i still think scraps should be slightly nerfed, 2 or 4 scraps per mesh/circuit i think would be a good balance, makes stations still worth mining but not Over powered.

oh and also, while i still would like to see circuits and motherboards be incorporated to recipes, i guess ill be ok if it doesn't happen.... as the recipes do feel a lot more balanced then before. but heres hoping that they do get incorporated for the sake of consistency :D[DOUBLEPOST=1413054776,1413054230][/DOUBLEPOST]oh also, theres still the issue of planets being vast hoards of resources, id really like to see those nerfed somehow. either with my quarry/salvage nerf idea or something along those lines. maybe jsut reduced resource spawns. as planets still de-incentivise you to go mine asteroids...

 

[FunnyBunny14]

@OdraNoel , if it doesn't get changed I'll just make my own, so keep an eye out for that

Also, the planets indeed do need your quarry idea. It obviously needs to be starmade-ified, just so it doesn't look like an old quarry but more space-like

 

[BillGHero]

I prefer using asteroids for mining too. But in .1723 it's just such a hassle to get anywhere without eating a planet or two. If you do eat a whole planet the yield should be fantastic. But making a planet harder to mine would require special rules at this point, since planets are not as proportionally large as they are in real life.

Personally, I don't care so much about how easy it is to salvage planets at this point. One thing at a time right? Get the salvaging to a good place and then worry about what comes next. This is still an alpha.

 

[FunnyBunny14]

I already got the salvaging to a good place. The only thing I'm not certain about is how much power salvage should require initially. I fell that 500 e/s is a nice amount, but others might disagree.

The reason behind the 500 e/s lies with me making linked salvage require more energy. I felt that 1000 e/s normal and 1500 e/s for linked was absurd, for both the standard and the linked, so I made it 500 and 750. Maybe I should make salvage modules linked to cannons require double the amount of energy, for balancing sake. 1000 e/s isn't that much for something that requires half the mass. At least that will give players a reason to link salvage cannons to something else. And I do still need to look at the missile combination.

I am talking about my attempt to rebalance the the linked cannons btw, I made a config once, but that is outdated now. Maybe I should update it to the current version...

 

[BillGHero]

Well, just played the .174 Release. I must admit the new recipes aren't too bad. Plus, it seems they might have a complete set of recipes this time too.

Not bad guys. Not bad at all.

 

[FunnyBunny14]

Well, I know of a couple of blocks that don't have a recipe yet (push pulse), while they really should. The jump drive module also has an inconsistency; I feel it should only require 50 capsules and 100 crystal circuits instead of the current 100 capsules and 50, because it woukd then follow the general rule of modules: all modules except the jump drive module are 1/10 the price of the computer.