Dev Blog : February 17th 2016

    Sven_The_Slayer

    Sven_The_Slayer

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    Lecic said:
    You could load the sector and just have the AI duke it out.

    Of course, points could be used for certain things. It'd be pretty unnecessary to load the sector in the event of a tiny pirate wandering into your massive border patrol fleet. But for actual combat between two large, PLAYERMADE forces? That shouldn't be sim combat.
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    Yeah there are far too many variables that numbers and math alone will not be enough. Turret arcs, point defence vs missiles, placement of key systems behind armor...
     
    Ithirahad

    Ithirahad

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    Oh gods Homestuck... Was not expecting Homestuck... Really, it's 2016...

    Anyway, yeah, the unloaded fight simulations do sound good in theory, but inevitably there will be some design that is cheap and really ugly and works exceptionally well in unloaded-engagements and inevitably people like me (who will generally stick to continuity and lore over meta minmaxing) will get screwed over, no matter how great and valiant Schine's efforts are to combat this. In practice a doom wedge will almost always beat a doom cube due to effective armor thickness/penetration resist/missiles hitting angled surfaces/etc; in numbers the doom cube would be equal.
     
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    Nickizzy

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    Lecic said:
    You could load the sector and just have the AI duke it out.

    Of course, points could be used for certain things. It'd be pretty unnecessary to load the sector in the event of a tiny pirate wandering into your massive border patrol fleet. But for actual combat between two large, PLAYERMADE forces? That shouldn't be sim combat.
    Click to expand...
    If no ones on the server then the ships could do normal combat, but if people are on then do an alert to everyone on contributing factions, as well as an option to spectate the battle(look through the cameras and turrets of thr leader of their own fleet). No participation, but you can watch the carnage with popcorn and butter to make up for the lags. If it's 2 megafactions but none of the members are on(but some other people are messing with turrets or something) then... You could make it normal combat, but only if the battle was small enough, or only spawn a certain amount of each side's ships(give a use for having your best ships up front on the command line?)-based on block count, no one wants their 5 of 200 drones facing the enemy's dreadnauts. As ships are destroyed more ships can spawn in to fight to keep the lag down. If to many fights are going on at once, you could make them be sim battles, or make them start once the other ones finished(I know, that might be bad for getting things done for everyone else, but still...).
    [DOUBLEPOST=1455674876,1455674631][/DOUBLEPOST]3 minutes between posts... This may be a record for this thread!
     
    Lecic

    Lecic

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    Criss said:
    I find you lack of faith disturbing.
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    I wasn't aware the points system had any sort of capability to detect things like "armor placement" or "docked reactors" or even things as simple as how certain effects, weapons, and building techniques (spaced armor, etc) work and how they function in combat, or that it will ever be able to detect that kind of thing without just flat out having some AI fight it out.
     
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    StormWing0

    StormWing0

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    lol first thing I'm going to do is deploy a fleet of mining drones and make it so they redock to a main canister that jumps back to base once full with them.
     
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    Ithirahad

    Ithirahad

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    There are so many potential possibilities that I have no idea what the first thing is that I'm going to do, besides set defense fleets of corvettes and frigates around Aethi territory. I'll have to look at what's possible.
     
    nightrune

    nightrune

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    If mining is a thing its the first thing I'm doing for sure. Next is fighter escorts, then Supporting frigates and carriers. Then Station Crackers. They'll be mine
     
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    TheWurm

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    Ithirahad said:
    Oh gods Homestuck... Was not expecting Homestuck... Really, it's 2016...

    Anyway, yeah, the unloaded fight simulations do sound good in theory, but inevitably there will be some design that is cheap and really ugly and works exceptionally well in unloaded-engagements and inevitably people like me (who will generally stick to continuity and lore over meta minmaxing) will get screwed over, no matter how great and valiant Schine's efforts are to combat this. In practice a doom wedge will almost always beat a doom cube due to effective armor thickness/penetration resist/missiles hitting angled surfaces/etc; in numbers the doom cube would be equal.
    Click to expand...
    Just wanted to point out, all your asking for is a more memory intensive simulation. doesn't make you wrong, I just think the terms of the argument are a little silly. Anyway, yes, any simulation done ought to be more intensive than a simple "which has a higher score?" and yes, the scoring system should be overhauled (you know, like they said they were going to do) but surely we can meet somewhere in the middle without loading in all these engagements that no person is invested enough in to actually take part in.

    Also, yes, designs that favor functionality to the exclusion of form tend to be, well, functional. As for ship shape, that is a good point, the system may have to be adjusted for that. I'm not convinced it needs to run the full AI simulation instead of a partial one.

    In summary: I appreciate your concerns, but I don't share them.
     
    SkylordLuke

    SkylordLuke

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    keep in mind guys,there can potentially be 100+ simulations of trading,escorting missions,battles,etc.. in a universe,and as it ets older and more gets explored,the number can explode. Do you really want a fully loaded sector for battles with all those other things,because 99% of PCs would like..die hahaha,dont get me started on multiplayer servers.

    But I do agree that the background simulations need to be more detailed. dont know what things will be included in these ship scores. but I do hope there is enough variables for those simulations to be somewhat fair. we cant expect it to be 100% right,I mean take the note from star citizen,you just cant simulate everything even if you had a super server cluster that would TRY to do that,now scale tthat down to starmade universe and low/mid end PCs,exactly...
     
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