Debris Entity

[Lone_Puppy]

I see this is something that has been mentioned or eluded to in the distant and recent past. The following old suggestions interesting me the most.

Planned - Debris Fields
Break off and debris acting properly.
Debris items and nebula

While driving to work one morning I was thinking about this and the Issue I have with overheating ships disappearing.

My preference would be for the ship or other entity to continue with it's overheating destruct sequence, but instead of disappearing it just explodes areas of the entity to simulate some sort of cascade energy failure or overload and then convert to a debris entity.

The "Debris Entity" where the core would turn into a grey monochromatic non animated dead looking core and the entity would then behave like an asteroid. It would be free moving like an asteroid and be salvageable like a derelict station. This would mean, all the components would effectively be scrap when harvested.

An additional mechanic I would like is a similar system to the buy station option when you buy a derelict, making it a usable entity. You could apply the mechanic to the debris to then liven up the core by changing it from dead greay inanimate to degraded damaged function core that you can enter to take over the ship.

Debris Entity

• Has a dead core (non-animated monochromatic version of the existing core)
• Free floating like an asteroid.
• Harvestable like a derelict - only yields scrap
• Can be bought or other take over mechanic like the derelict station. Making it a functional ship, but degraded and damaged requiring repair

Debris Entity Spawn

• Randomly in the universe, but like Asteroids have a non/popular location in the universe where it spawns
• Can be spawned from the conversion of an overheated ship after a battle or damage. This would then remain where it is as Debris until harvested, bought, destroyed or whatever.

Does this sound like a practical suggestion?

 

[kookster]

I really like your suggestion. Except one thing, thats the derelict = only scrap. Though this is default functionality. I think it would be better to have a percent chance of some kind to actually get working parts from derelict entities.

 

[Lukwan]

Sure I want this feature and I like the idea but...

Even 'dead' cores will have to be tracked by the game. I am imagining what my killing field would look like after hunting pirates for a couple of hours. They keep coming and I keep killing...and the local space is getting cluttered. I often build a Home base near a pirate station so their fighters keep getting drawn into my turret-gauntlet. Won't someone think of the shipping-hazards...

and the children. ; ]

 

[Lone_Puppy]

Lol! You're awesome Lukwan.

have a percent chance of some kind to actually get working parts from derelict entities.

I have pondered this myself, but to keep it simple and quick to add to the game I thought using existing mechanics would make it more of a possibility. I sometimes wish we didn't have scrap and it was like the old days where we could harvest functional blocks from stations.

Even 'dead' cores will have to be tracked by the game.

They would be unloaded if nobody is around see them, but being in the vicinity could be a lag nightmare.

 

[Lecic]

Scrap only? Fuck no.

Sure I want this feature and I like the idea but...

Even 'dead' cores will have to be tracked by the game. I am imagining what my killing field would look like after hunting pirates for a couple of hours. They keep coming and I keep killing...and the local space is getting cluttered. I often build a Home base near a pirate station so their fighters keep getting drawn into my turret-gauntlet. Won't someone think of the shipping-hazards...

and the children. ; ]

Small mass objects shouldn't be saved. They should just disappear and not leave debris. This would be server configurable, but I think a good minimum would be around 5k mass.

 

[Cluwne]

Can't we just treat debris as asteroids in context of processing?

Small mass objects shouldn't be saved. They should just disappear and not leave debris.

Alternatively they can be incorporated into a larger space hulk of debris or as numerous inclusions in a large asteroid.

I think it would be better to have a percent chance of some kind to actually get working parts from derelict entities.

Something something salvage_chance% server config. Maybe additional modifier for "tiers" of blocks? Like, hull and armor are just that - big hunk of metal, not much to further break and degrade. More complex systems, however, due to time spent drifting in space without maintenance have lead to degradation and further damage, therefore lowering the chance of successful salvage.

Additionally debris fields could "migrate", drifting into a neighboring sector¹, split into multiple smaller fields² or merge into a bigger one³.
Using above as justification, fields could also appear into the system as if they drifted from somewhere else. Faction whose space the field appeared in would get a notification or something.
Ship graveyards, on the other hand, are more "permanent" debris fields, generated like stations with only one per system. They do not drift away, but can spawn smaller fields, as if they drifted away from it. Graveyard cannot be completely depleted, as it gets a % of ships lost in it's system and "restocks" from time to time with accessible blueprints. Though ships here cannot be repaired, it still presents a valuable asset. Maybe some of the larger zero-g scrap heaps could span several sectors too.

Lastly, space junkyards and maybe (some) bordering sectors could have environmental danger in the form of small pieces of scrap (sprites, not actual objects) acting as not-so-micro-micrometeorites, striking the ship when it moves. Damage is proportional to field density, speed and surface area (aka dimensions) of the ship. If I were you, I wouldn't zoom through such place at lightspeed...

¹ Cannot migrate into sectors occupied by stars (duh), planets or wormholes. If it does happen, the field ceases to exist.
² Fields could have a relative size and/or density index. Should the split force it below minimal index, the field essentially disperses.
³ If field somehow manages to survive and reach maximum size/density index, can it form a planet or at least a planetoid?
Maybe with no core and plates - just like a big station. No need to preserve the ship remains fused together either, just sprinkle some prebuilt pieces here and there and fill the rest with a variety of blocks.

 

[jayman38]

I think the dev team kind of liked the idea of debris left over from killed ships. However, I think they were hesitant to do it due to the clutter. It would be easy for a griefer to go out into the void and load up the server with tons of dead ships.

What are some solutions to clutter?
1. AI faction ships follow the old disappearing rule instead of the new debris rule. (Vanish on death)
2. Player ships should probably be debris at first, but as long as they are loaded into memory, should gradually vanish (block by block, or chunk by chunk, depending on ship size, every few minutes or so) after they die, until they eventually disappear. Much more immersive than disappearing all at once.

I imagine these could be server settings, to allow server admins to customize their entity-death behavior.
E.g.
AI_DERELICT_VANISH=TRUE
AI_DERELICT_VANISH_TIME=0
AI_DERELICT_DEGRADE_COUNT=1
AI_DERELICT_DEGRADE_TIME=5
PLAYER_DERELICT_VANISH=FALSE
PLAYER_DERELICT_VANISH_TIME=0
PLAYER_DERELICT_DEGRADE_COUNT=2
PLAYER_DERELICT_DEGRADE_TIME=100

 

[Lecic]

I think the dev team kind of liked the idea of debris left over from killed ships. However, I think they were hesitant to do it due to the clutter. It would be easy for a griefer to go out into the void and load up the server with tons of dead ships.

How is this an issue, exactly? It would be MUCH easier to clutter a server with living ships.

 

[EricBlank]

Have a max number of debris objects the server will track. When a ship is destroyed and overheats to form a new debris object, delete the debris object that's been sitting on the list longest.

 

[jayman38]

How is this an issue, exactly? It would be MUCH easier to clutter a server with living ships.

Beats me. It's just what I remember them being concerned about.

EricBlank's solution sounds good. (Remove old debris entities when new ones exceed the max count.)

Have a max number of debris objects the server will track. When a ship is destroyed and overheats to form a new debris object, delete the debris object that's been sitting on the list longest.

Debris counts could be server-configurable. But some broken ships would be more of a load than smaller broken ships. Maybe it could be by (currently-loaded) Debris chunk count. So if a titan becomes a derelict, maybe three smaller, older debris ships disappear to make up for the extra load.

Debris objects that aren't currently loaded don't need to count towards the current debris limit. If a debris object is unloaded, it's just a bunch of files on a hard drive somewhere, so I don't think those would need to be considered when swapping out debris objects.

 

[Nickizzy]

Oh Yes I'm Back. Finally.

derelict = only scrap

Scrap only?

Something something salvage_chance% server config. Maybe additional modifier for "tiers" of blocks? Like, hull and armor are just that - big hunk of metal, not much to further break and degrade. More complex systems, however, due to time spent drifting in space without maintenance have lead to degradation and further damage, therefore lowering the chance of successful salvage.

Answer: Capsules.

Maybe(I think I talked about this in some other thread) each block, when salvaged/destroyed* would take it's base values in basic materials(mesh and capsules and stuff), and apply a certain percentage to that(say, when salvaging a block it does 40-60% of the mesh/crystal, and 20-30% of the capsules). It would give you these resources as scrap and spilled capsules(same as scrap but with capsules). The ship would then get the resources like it was mining, into connected storages to the weapon* or salvage beam, or to the pilot.

Cluwne, thats actually a good idea. Idk. Would work.

*This is all referencing to my other thread. Add-Incentive-To-Combat thread. Basically like in FtD.

 

[Lone_Puppy]

Wow, you guys have come up with some awesome ideas!

I defo would like the abilities Cluwne outlines, but to get it working I would settle for simpler mechanics (derelict style scrap) at first and then introduce more complex features as Cluwne outlined.

With the issue of a cluttered server, there are numerous ways to resolve this. One of which is on its way.

• when an object is unloaded it is merely a reference in a table from that point.
• If you applied the depleting of blocks mechanism to all of the debris, this would resolve the issue of the objects remaining forever, because they would eventually be deleted by the server.
  

  ue to time spent drifting in space without maintenance have lead to degradation and further damage

• Adding some kind of server admin configuration would certainly please server owners and admins, giving them a choice as to whether they support this feature.
  

  I imagine these could be server settings, to allow server admins to customize their entity-death behavior.

  Have a max number of debris objects the server will track

  Debris counts could be server-configurable

As for

Answer: Capsules.

This is an interesting idea, but I think it would contradict the whole factory/crafting aspect of the game.
Perhaps if we could have factory blocks on a ship, you could tie this straight into the harvester and it automatically processes the scrap to produce them.

 

[GreenScrapBot]

The debris mechanic is already partially implemented, but it is currently switched off by default. You can activate it by setting "ENABLE_BREAK_OFF" to true in the server config or in the advanced options. But be careful! I would create a new universe for testing purposes.

 

[Lone_Puppy]

The debris mechanic is already partially implemented, but it is currently switched off by default. You can activate it by setting "ENABLE_BREAK_OFF" to true in the server config or in the advanced options. But be careful! I would create a new universe for testing purposes.

Awesome! Thanks GreenScrapBot.
[doublepost=1470261061,1470260823][/doublepost]Something I forgot to add to the list of resolutions for clutter is the AI factions. These guys would naturally harvest and be a useful for clearing clutter.

 

[Nickizzy]

contradict the whole factory/crafting aspect of the game.

Pls explain.

I wanted to say something else but I really just need more explanation. How would adding capsules scrap(You did notice that only blocks that used the resources to create them would drop them, right?) change the crafting system? It wouldn't be some endless source of resources, the drop percentage would(as I said) be in the lower spectrum. I do notice now that it could actually be more in the 2-10% range, but thats just balancing. I just said the idea.

 

[Lone_Puppy]

Oh, my apologies Nickizzy. Sorry, I mis-read your suggestion while thinking only about getting scrap from the salvage.
I see you're referring to breaking down the individual blocks to their recipe components with a percentage of what you get based on the degradation applied to the individual block.

I do think you have a well thought out idea there. It gives you more than what scrap gives you, which is a really nice feature to have.

Nice idea!
Sorry man.
[doublepost=1470286488,1470286410][/doublepost]I realize now that it actually complements the factory/crafting.

 

[TheGT]

Perhaps blocks could only be salvaged by hand, to encourage raiders of the lost space ark type gameplay. Lights should also be automatically switched off.
This would create a way to play and a cool atmosphere to play in. Can't wait till we get space-cobwebs to get stuck on my helmet.

 

[Lecic]

Perhaps blocks could only be salvaged by hand, to encourage raiders of the lost space ark type gameplay. Lights should also be automatically switched off.
This would create a way to play and a cool atmosphere to play in. Can't wait till we get space-cobwebs to get stuck on my helmet.

No one is going to bother with debris if you have to hand mine it.

 

[Lone_Puppy]

I have to agree with Lecic on the hand mining. That would drive me nuts.

However I like...

Lights should also be automatically switched off.
This would create a way to play and a cool atmosphere to play in. Can't wait till we get space-cobwebs to get stuck on my helmet.

That would be awesome! I often wish there was more of a relationship between active systems and power.

Although, I would also like to enter a ship that is still running red alert lighting. Perhaps incorporate downed lighting with the timing and progression of the degradation before eventually disappearing altogether.

 

[TheGT]

Maybe the computers and the core of the ship could be increased in value the older they are yet only yield their block when hand mined, then the rest of the ship would yield a combination of ore, crystals, and scrap when salvaged by a salvage beam.
Ore would make more sense than capsules, as I doubt that when you craft a reactor the capsule is still stuck inside wedged between nuclear rods.
The same could be done with stations.