Recognized Change Salvaging Mechanics

[Micro753]

What is currently in the game:
-Derelict stations give only scrap when mined.
-Overheating ships can be salvaged, and all salvaged blocks (full hp or damaged) are returned as the blocks.

My proposed, new system:
-If a ship is overheating, then the damaged blocks return scrap.

-If the ship is not overheating or is rebooted, then the damaged blocks return the blocks.
-When rebooting, it will take more time for every damaged block.

-Since you will get the block back instead of scrap.​

-Derelict stations return some scrap and some full blocks.

-DivineEvil suggested have a % probability that a block is returned as scrap instead of the block
-Or, have each block on a station have a % probability that it is at 50% hp

-When a station is first loaded in, it calculates for each block whether or not it is damaged. The damaged blocks return scrap, and the full hp blocks return the block.
-Since damaged blocks have a different texture, the stations would look more abandoned with some of their blocks damaged, and each station would look a bit different from others because it would have different blocks damaged.​

I have no idea what would be the best % chance of a block being damaged on a station would be. I think around 85% would be a good number because if a station has been abandoned, then most of the blocks will probably not be in great condition.


Merged from a post below:

On this post, Lecic said "It would be nice if large, overheated ships turned into salvageable wrecks instead of just disappearing."

A new idea (everything in my first post still applies):
-Ships can only be rebooted when they are still overheating.
-After a ship overheats, it becomes an entity similar to asteroids (can be moved and salvaged/mined) labeled as debris.

-Some blocks on this entity take damage to their hp when it overheats.

-Perhaps 75% of the undamaged blocks loose half of their hp for example.​

-Maybe increase the overheating time for ships.

-To give more time to get intact blocks on larger ships, or reboot before it becomes debris.​

-Debris will disappear after a very long time, configurable in the settings config.

-This will (hopefully) help counter lag from this system by deleting enough debris to keep debris count low before more is created from battles/wars.​

If a player overheats an enemy ship, then they could salvage it for the intact blocks and scrap from the damaged blocks. If they are not in a ship with salvage beams, then they can leave and come back with a salvager, but the ship will have likely overheated by then, so (if we use my example above) they will get only 25% as many blocks and more scrap.

Since ships will not disappear, then other players could go to a sector where a war was fought and salvage the remains of the ships left behind.
Since gravity blocks and rails still work while damaged (at least I think they do) and don't need power, large capital ship wreaks too big to be salvaged entirely and fit onto a cargo ship could be new areas for players to explore. A small salvager without the cargo space needed to salvage the entire ship could dock to the capital ship, and the astronauts could search for the more valuable stuff left behind to fill their ship (such as look for a cargo hold or hand mine any intact blocks they can find while walking about). Maybe, when the fauna system is in the game, hostile creatures could spawn on any overheated ship that is above a certain mass and that has been overheated and untouched for a certain amount of time, so their would be some risk involved with this way of salvaging.

 

[starhaiden]

I dislike how pirate stations only give you scraps.

 

[Smoke]

Absolutely agree.
In addition, "Loot Plumes" need to go away

 

[Planr]

If you can't get valuable loot like that from a pirate battle then there's no reason to even go out and hunt them. The valuable loot dropped by pirates when you kill them gives you an incentive to go and battle them. Most destroyed pirate ships now under the HP system have little to no valuable resources once destroyed (as you have to destroy a lot of blocks and get their HP down to less than 50%), and they'll have even less with the idea you're proposing, OP.

If you do not like the fact that pirates drop all that loot you can always turn it off in your server config settings.

The current issue with pirate loot is moreso that the drops are so small and don't follow their destroyed ship that they're practically impossible to find on most server environments. What I think needs to be done there is to have the loot that's dropped when a pirate dies to get an entity marker so it can be gone to and picked up easily once the pirates are dead.

On another note, the only incentive people currently have to attack Pirate stations is to drop their shields and damage their blocks so that they will spawn in pirate ships so that you can then get the valuable pirate loot. IMO all pirate stations ought to have loot chests or some sort of valuable substance on them so that attacking and defactioning them is more worthwhile.

 

[DivineEvil]

All I can say, is that there's should be a server settings entry for % probability to actually salvage an intact block from a decayed station. So far the only reason I'd go for pirate/derelict stations is to get them the hell out of my neightborhood, and yet they will still respawn and are still completely useless galaxy map fillers.

 

[Micro753]

If you can't get valuable loot like that from a pirate battle then there's no reason to even go out and hunt them. The valuable loot dropped by pirates when you kill them gives you an incentive to go and battle them. Most destroyed pirate ships now under the HP system have little to no valuable resources once destroyed (as you have to destroy a lot of blocks and get their HP down to less than 50%), and they'll have even less with the idea you're proposing, OP.

If you do not like the fact that pirates drop all that loot you can always turn it off in your server config settings.

The current issue with pirate loot is moreso that the drops are so small and don't follow their destroyed ship that they're practically impossible to find on most server environments. What I think needs to be done there is to have the loot that's dropped when a pirate dies to get an entity marker so it can be gone to and picked up easily once the pirates are dead.

On another note, the only incentive people currently have to attack Pirate stations is to drop their shields and damage their blocks so that they will spawn in pirate ships so that you can then get the valuable pirate loot. IMO all pirate stations ought to have loot chests or some sort of valuable substance on them so that attacking and defactioning them is more worthwhile.

I was thinking more about player ships. I'm fine with the pirates dropping loot. I was talking about the blocks on their ships.
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All I can say, is that there's should be a server settings entry for % probability to actually salvage an intact block from a decayed station. So far the only reason I'd go for pirate/derelict stations is to get them the hell out of my neightborhood, and yet they will still respawn and are still completely useless galaxy map fillers.

That's a good idea. Either that, or make the blocks on decayed stations damaged to begin with.

 

[jayman38]

I think loot clouds do need to go away. It would be better to have a loot prize that is given when a player fires a salvage beam or something at the overheating structure. That way, in addition to the scrap and 100% healthy blocks you receive from wreckage, you have a small bit of loot that is relatively easy to find so that it is not wasted, and the players don't have to run around as much, hunting for that elusive cloud.

The amount of loot possible per entity could be a function of a random item with a quantity linearly matched to the number of block hit points (not to be confused with ship HP) left on the overheating entity (loot count = remaining block HP sum / 100, minimum of 1?) to simulate cargo damaged by weapons fire, encouraging skillful combat with fewer damaged blocks. This loot concept could also be more easily integrated into a future quest system.

 

[kookster]

So if i read all the comments right these are all the ideas being thrown out there:

- Get rid of loot clouds
- Make it so loot is given when ship is salvaged instead of the cloud spawning
- Make derelict stations have a % chance of the block being salvaged as normal and not scrap
- Make damaged blocks always return scrap


I like all of these ideas personally. I would also throw this out there as a idea:

- Make it so dropped items/loot clouds can be picked up by salvage beams.

 

[DivineEvil]

Then I'd also throw an idea: Lets store the loot items in the core; it would show the amount of stored items below the overheat countdown, and could gather them one-by-one by hitting a core with salvage beam of a ship or astronaut.

 

[StormWing0]

Could make it so the storage blocks hold the loot on pirate ships and on any station. The Loot Clouds could be explained by one of these storage areas being destroyed outright and some of the loot that survived would be sent flying but move in the last direction the ship was going at the time.

As for some blocks on decaying stations being intact enough to get the original block from. I'm game for that as long as there is a setting to say how much of the structure is still in good enough condition to recover.

 

[Micro753]

DivineEvil's post gave me an idea. For derelict stations, have a % probability of each block being damaged (I'll say 90% chance of it having 50% hp for an example). Those 90% that are damaged would give scrap, and the other 10% (full hp) blocks would give that block.

 

[Micro753]

On this post, Lecic said "It would be nice if large, overheated ships turned into salvageable wrecks instead of just disappearing."

A new idea (everything in my first post still applies):
-Ships can only be rebooted when they are still overheating.
-After a ship overheats, it becomes an entity similar to asteroids (can be moved and salvaged/mined).

-Some blocks on this entity take damage to their hp when it overheats.

-Perhaps 75% of the undamaged blocks loose half of their hp for example.​

-Maybe increase the overheating time for ships.

-To give more time to get intact blocks on larger ships.​

If a player overheats an enemy ship, then they could salvage it for the intact blocks and scrap from the damaged blocks. If they are not in a ship with salvage beams, then they can leave and come back with a salvager, but the ship will have likely overheated by then, so (if we use my example above) they will get only 25% as many blocks and more scrap.

Since ships will not disappear, then other players could go to a sector where a war was fought and salvage the remains of the ships left behind.
Since gravity blocks and rails still work while damaged (at least I think they do) and don't need power, large capital ship wreaks too big to be salvaged entirely and fit onto a cargo ship could be new areas for players to explore. A small salvager without the cargo space needed to salvage the entire ship could dock to the capital ship, and the astronauts could search for the more valuable stuff left behind to fill their ship (such as look for a cargo hold or hand mine any intact blocks they can find while walking about). Maybe, when the fauna system is in the game, hostile creatures could spawn on any overheated ship that is above a certain mass and that has been overheated and untouched for a certain amount of time, so their would be some risk involved with this way of salvaging.

Thoughts, anyone?

 

[jgames666]

This idea is by far the best idea I've heard for salvage. I've always wondered why there is no scraps after a ship core overheats. This would be realistic and it would add game-play aspects that would be beneficial for the overall starmade economy. It would also make the game more friendly to newbies. I really do like the overall idea especially the rephrased part below.

On this post, Lecic said "It would be nice if large, overheated ships turned into salvageable wrecks instead of just disappearing."

A new idea (everything in my first post still applies):
-Ships can only be rebooted when they are still overheating.
-After a ship overheats, it becomes an entity similar to asteroids (can be moved and salvaged/mined).

-Some blocks on this entity take damage to their hp when it overheats.

-Perhaps 75% of the undamaged blocks loose half of their hp for example.​

-Maybe increase the overheating time for ships.

-To give more time to get intact blocks on larger ships.​

If a player overheats an enemy ship, then they could salvage it for the intact blocks and scrap from the damaged blocks. If they are not in a ship with salvage beams, then they can leave and come back with a salvager, but the ship will have likely overheated by then, so (if we use my example above) they will get only 25% as many blocks and more scrap.

Since ships will not disappear, then other players could go to a sector where a war was fought and salvage the remains of the ships left behind.
Since gravity blocks and rails still work while damaged (at least I think they do) and don't need power, large capital ship wreaks too big to be salvaged entirely and fit onto a cargo ship could be new areas for players to explore. A small salvager without the cargo space needed to salvage the entire ship could dock to the capital ship, and the astronauts could search for the more valuable stuff left behind to fill their ship (such as look for a cargo hold or hand mine any intact blocks they can find while walking about). Maybe, when the fauna system is in the game, hostile creatures could spawn on any overheated ship that is above a certain mass and that has been overheated and untouched for a certain amount of time, so their would be some risk involved with this way of salvaging.

Thoughts, anyone?

 

[Pacific_Jim]

I like this idea. Maybe an adjustment would be the longer a ship is overheating the more likely it is you'll just end up with scrap, encouraging the player to recover the vessel as soon as possible.

 

[Lord_Greyscale]

I dislike how pirate stations only give you scraps.

Absolutely agree.
In addition, "Loot Plumes" need to go away

I think loot clouds do need to go away.

Aiight gents, time to drop some knowledge on your heads.

At some point in the (not so) distant past, Stations were fully salvageable. (before the crafting update even)
Then the players kinda sorta bitched about asshole types eating all the derelict stations, spawning a titan with the proceeds from all the shit they sold off, and terrorizing everyone.

So the devs removed stations giving real blocks.

The loot-clouds the last two of you are kvetching about?
They're the stop-gap measure, intended to allow "new-ish" players to get something usefull from fighting pirates, and to reward stubborn players fro wiping out the little shits. (the pirates)
and were only put in because the playerbase bitched that they had no reason to go pirate raiding anymore.

Then the game changed again, and the loot-clouds got a smidge obscene.
they started crapping Thousands of blocks per type chosen, and of block types you aren't supposed to be able to even use!
(I'm looking at you, burnt dirt, and anything named Schemadyne)

All of this leads to NOW, with portions of the playerbase BITCHING that the "Loot-couds're ugly" that they "detract from the game" that they "ruin the economy".
The last one is a frikkin insult in my eyes, as Loot-clouds were put in place to Save the damnned game economy.

 

[Micro753]

At some point in the (not so) distant past, Stations were fully salvageable. (before the crafting update even)
Then the players kinda sorta ******* about ******* types eating all the derelict stations, spawning a titan with the proceeds from all the [stuff] they sold off, and terrorizing everyone.

I remember those days. You could never find a station because people salvaged every one of them they saw. Now, though, the stations are completely useless in my opinion. I can get much more from mining asteroids because of the mining bonuses in my faction's territory. Definitely don't bring the old system back, but getting a little bit of something other than scrap would be nice.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

I love the idea of being able to get a percentage of real blocks from derelict stations. I'm fairly certain I've mentioned it before... somewhere... if not only just in my head.

I hope one day:
Loot clouds will be a thing of the past and the loot from a ship is what they are actually carrying + any bounties they may have
Destroying a station will be no small feat so there will be no reason they need to decay once destroyed.

 

[TBB]

Edit:
Maybe, when the fauna system is in the game, hostile creatures could spawn on any overheated ship that is above a certain mass and that has been overheated and untouched for a certain amount of time.

When I read this I was thinking that it would be nice if they would not spawn but be actual cargo for the surprise element. You are never really sure when you will find some alien predators this way. Of course people won't transport these things without it having any market-value so a whole system should be in place to make them useful for, say a show, a circus, experiments or whatever you have in mind.

Just the fact that fauna is only planned at this point and things like shows being a boring addition makes this idea (at this point in time) quite irrelevant, but maybe you will see me post something about this when fauna is a thing. I have some really simple ideas like playing god, creating watchdogs and things like that...

 

[Criss]

So the biggest concern here is that salvaging blocks from derelicts was removed because it was a cheap way of making money and resources. It minimized the nesseccity to actually craft. If something like this suggestion is to work it needs to only apply after the player has put fourth some effort. I suspect the changes made to overheating ships is alright, since that requires a fight. Not so sure about the derelict stations. Additionally, there will be rewards for exploring derelicts instead of salvaging them in the future.

 

[ltmauve]

If something like this suggestion is to work it needs to only apply after the player has put fourth some effort.

Hmmm...
A player has to poke around the station for a randomly placed activation module and flip it?