CCTV/Variable size displays

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    I'm talking about the ability to tie cameras to a display block or variant thereof. The convenience of seeing off your port/starboard/fore/aft without having to mash the L/R keys to see what direction you're being shot at from. Multi-directional visibility via external cameras could have a large impact on shipbuilding and a wide array of other uses (faction base/station security, and so forth.)

    Another item I would like to touch on is variable sized display screens for such, as having to stare into a 1x1 box on your battle bridge would slowly drive you mad...

    I know this probably isn't an original concept (and working within the confines of java is tedious), but I feel it would at least be worth a look at.

    Discuss.
     
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    It isn't. Prepare for clocks. You get a like from me though cause I really want this.

    This would chew up some resources I imagine, but some kind of CCTV would be amazingly useful IMO, not just the parking camera but also spying on whatever you want to. I'm not sure how this would be implemented, but I really do want this in game.

    Cameras are the new chairs! Get with the times schemax!
     
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    I can see a couple cool things to come out of displays. I think a 360 degree monitor cockpit hooked up to external cameras would be a pretty sweet effect for when you enter the pilot seat. Even cooler, if a connected camera is destroyed while hooked up, the display will default to a static image.
     
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    Thalanor

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    *hands out likes

    *summons @schema : a little technobabble:
    - For every camera connected to one or multiple display blocks, the game scene in front of the camera must be rendered individually.
    - Implemented naively, this would carry a tremendous resource cost.
    - As such, for the camera renderings, the following speed-ups are feasible:
    * Limit the resolution of the framebuffer the camera renders to to 128x128 (or 256x256, but really the former should be enough).
    * Only take snapshots, no constant filming. Take a snapshot whenever the camera block receives a logic signal. Show last snapshot until new snapshot is created. Link logic clock to camera block for constant snapshot updates.
    * Use a different set of shaders for all camera block renderings with display blocks as targets: You could abandon costly lighting and textures, and instead use some sort of "infrared" scifi vision rendering, where the color of a pixel depends only on distance to camera (at maximum, this requires a vector subtraction, some constant calculation and maybe a matrix transform, all relatively cheap), or other implementations with similar low GPU cycle cost. Environment (most blocks) could be rendered greenish-blue, astronauts, active logic blocks and system blocks reddish-yellow (to simulate them radiating heat). That way cameras could even be used to find weakpoints on damaged ships: parts not covered by hull would show in camera view when linked to a display block. And the utility of this for space station / ship / base supervision is self-explanatory. And if weapon computers would emit a logic signal once fired, a turret could even store a snapshot of the last thing it targeted!

    This is how I would envision it (paint.NET sketchup. This is sadly not a mod :p)
     
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    Even if it can't be live feed which I agree would be overtly taxing, just having external snapshot cams updating on a clock would be incredibly helpful and it will seriously aid in removing combat blind spots. Also, excellent mockup!
     

    Thalanor

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    Spread the word and let us all summon schema! :D
     
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    The possible applications for this would be endless! I would also suggest having a way to attach a camera onto a drone or small craft and then have it send images or video back to a specific location, like a home base for instance. This would give new value to reconnaissance and spying ships as well. Additionally, this could also give rise to the need for advanced detection systems for scanning areas for stealth enhanced hostile observers.
     

    Saber

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    Cameras are the new chairs! Get with the times schemax!
    Please don't say things like that. He works hard and is almost always 500 steps ahead of us.

    On the note of cameras on display modules I do agree with you all, however it could have some serious performance issues depending on how it's done. Basically he would have to create another renderer to display each screen and what it's seeing. Couple that with many people doing multiple screens on a ship and you have a lot of ships trying to load/calculate everything around them all at once.

    I'm not saying there's no way to do it, I'm just saying that with how things currently work it could cause a lot of problems. Yes it would be cool, yes I'd love to see it, but I'm not sure if it's something that will be implemented, at least not anytime soon. Unless there's some sort of a breakthrough or something.
     

    Lecic

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    It'd be extremely resource taxing. Maybe if it was a snapshot every 5 seconds, I could see it as a possibility.
     
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    I actually agree about it being taxing but not in a PC Specs sort of way. More of taxing on the grounds of this kind of coding is the stuff nightmares are made of. While not wholly impossible, I'm sure schema is pulling his hair out at the thought of someone even suggesting this.
     

    Lecic

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    I actually agree about it being taxing but not in a PC Specs sort of way. More of taxing on the grounds of this kind of coding is the stuff nightmares are made of. While not wholly impossible, I'm sure schema is pulling his hair out at the thought of someone even suggesting this.
    No, it's taxing in a PC specs sort of way. Having multiple POVs active at once can be extremely resource intensive.
     

    Thalanor

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    No, it's taxing in a PC specs sort of way. Having multiple POVs active at once can be extremely resource intensive.
    I actually wrote some technobabble above how to tackle that:
    - 128x128 framebuffer size (or heck, even less)
    - one framebuffer atlas instead of X framebuffers per cameras
    - take only snapshots whenever logic signal is received - max 2 snapshots per second (by hooking to clock)
    - simple shaders without a) lighting b) texturing

    All of these measures can still lead to something like in my mockup, and the price in computational load approaches zero.

    Example:
    Say you are rendering the game at 60 FPS. Then in one second of your gametime, you spend as much computational power on your actual PC screen display as you would spend to render 60*<size factor>*<complexity_factor> (roughly, minus VBO cache shenanigans and the like). <size_factor> is (your resolution)/(128*128), a VERY large number, and complexity_factor is VERY large too with the difference that no texture lookups and lighting make (and shadowmaps, and all the shits).

    Definitely do-able, performance wise. Because the schine engine already supports shadows, it naturally supports rendering multiple POVs.
     
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    No, it's taxing in a PC specs sort of way. Having multiple POVs active at once can be extremely resource intensive.
    I was sarcastically arguing more that Starmade would take another price hike over me proposing such an idea but I'm actually alarmingly aware of how cruel and unforgiving it could be if not properly implemented...
     
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    In addition to what Thalanor suggested (which is quite good), I got excited over this concept and couldn't resist sharing some thoughts as well.

    To reduce the taxing affects of the CCTV system(s) on servers with many client data streams, it would be wise to process the CCTV block strings on the client side alone and utilize the vector information already received from the server. The vector information from the server (representing hard points such as ships, planets, people, blocks in general, node changes, etc.) could be reprocessed and reduced to be less taxing in the same fashion mentioned by Thalanor to render the CCTV images.

    Furthermore, implementing user definable CCTV settings such as: texture quality, refresh rate, shadows, image filters, etc. would accommodate for varying PC hardware; allowing the user to tailor the settings however well their system can handle it.

    Another suggestion would be to add proximity to the CCTV blocks by implementing a radius to each CCTV block to only allow it to display an image while within proximity of say 30 meters for example.

    Create two blocks: CCTV Display and CCTV Camera. These should be self explanatory in how they would link together. The video string would primarily activated and controlled by the Display block.

    Enable the CCTV blocks to have an ON/OFF feature and allow them to link to logic blocks for seamless interaction. Fore example: a simple switch could turn on several CCTVs at once; placing activation blocks in or around an entrance could activate a CCTV block in a distant security room which could be linked to a CCTV Camera block facing the entrance that was trespassed; spotlight mode would only activate the CCTV when a certain type of object or person passed within line of site of the CCTV Camera block at say 0 to 1000 meters.

    Perhaps a more complicated solution would be to add an occlusion layer directly behind the CCTV screen to prevent it from rendering as long as the face of the screen is not in line of site. Perhaps include most other blocks in this occlusion effect as well to eliminate a scenario in which too many CCTVs are located with 30 meters of each other but happen to be out of site (behind walls).

    Allow CCTV blocks to perform larger (border-less) grid arrangements; the arrangements would be limited to rectangular or square X/Y grid patterns such as: 2x2, 3x4, 5x5, etc. The maximum grid size would have to have a limit of course as not to get carried away with.

    Filters could include: Infrared, Wireframe, Colored nodes only with distance in meters and colors determined by faction color (for larger screen arrangements), X-Ray scanning of structures in the form of a very short recording clip with replay (recordings get wiped or store a limited number of recordings; recordings get erased after each new recording) or simply to take an X-Ray picture via the CCTV Camera block and report it back to the screen.

    Most of my suggestions are contingent on the system being well optimized in much the way Thalanor and I have suggested; or perhaps many better solutions exist -I'm sure of. I didn't give myself the necessary time to revise this little article, so please excuse any errors or less than thought out suggestions.

    Plenty of games offer this type of feature via car mirrors and community mods, it simply takes time to develop and work out bugs. In my opinion, this one would be well worth it considering how limited views are while inside ships and space stations.

    I'm all for this idea and think it would provide a whole new experiences and approach to playing the game. Please support!
     
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    Darkkon

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    I strongly support this idea, but I definitely think that this should wait to be implemented until we have the major features that are Currently being worked on finished. Flora, Fauna, etc. This would be a major change to the game simply due to the requirements to make it happen.