Can the devs give us an official ruling on PS transfer

[Keptick]

I use dumb fire against ships all the time. So how does that make it not usable against ships? It just excels at obliterating stationary targets.
If I stagger the barrels back 1 for each row I can get a 100 wide by 100 wide area as a flying target shredder.

It doesn't even have to be just missiles cannons work from it beams work also.

The logic works I've tested it which was your first claim. So please explain how this doesn't work.

Or is this something that doesn't work for you in play. I can understand it if you personally don't like dumb fire or and so on. But I personally have no problem with the system its point and shoot.

Try the ship out it works no worse that dumbfire systems. Just you don't get the difference between left and right mouse button.
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More than enough pawer cap was 790K and the gen was 755K
In fact put the module up on this post asking others to verify
http://starmadedock.net/threads/power-transfer-issue-can-someone-verify.21478/

Ok, read this CARERULLY and try to understand:

Unless you are an aimbot god, you will NOT be able to hit a moving ship with it, ESPECIALLY if it uses missiles. Why? Three reasons:
ONE: Logic fired weapons fire straight, meaning that the ship has to be pointed at the target.
TWO: A giant ship will turn VERY slowly.
THREE: The projectile has a travel time, missiles are slow. Meaning that you must lead the target in order to hit it.

Those three things combined make it practically impossible to use logic weapons effectively in combat, especially if it's missiles mounted on a titan. Go play on a server, tell me how many people will stay stationary while you carefully line up your shot. Short answer: none. So it's really only useful against stations. However, it's way more profitable to capture stations by boarding them then instakilling them with a lag-weapon. So sure, you can make an overkill lag-gun of doom, but I dare you to actually use it on a server (which you clearly haven't). Besides, I have yet to see a single station that wasn't a home base that couldn't easily be taken down with a normal ship.

But of course, all things considered, you probably know better than veteran players with years of ship building and combat experience. Right?

 

[GRHayes]

I timed it again and now I got 2:20 by using your dual channel beams. From what I can see, often it does 4 ticks per beam and not 5. But the same goes for your power draw.
I've disabled power regen and gave the reactor 50 mil storage, it transferred 39.7 mil which is close to what it should be (it should be 40 mil).

Tried a power supply + cannon version too, exact same result.

What I noticed is that every 2.5 mil, it retracts 500K on the HUD...So I'm almost certain this is a client vs server conflict. I'll forward it and report it.

Thanks glad to know I'm not crazy.
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Ok, read this CARERULLY and try to understand:

Unless you are an aimbot god, you will NOT be able to hit a moving ship with it, ESPECIALLY if it uses missiles. Why? Three reasons:
ONE: Logic fired weapons fire straight, meaning that the ship has to be pointed at the target.
TWO: A giant ship will turn VERY slowly.
THREE: The projectile has a travel time, missiles are slow. Meaning that you must lead the target in order to hit it.

Those three things combined make it practically impossible to use logic weapons effectively in combat, especially if it's missiles mounted on a titan. Go play on a server, tell me how many people will stay stationary while you carefully line up your shot. Short answer: none. So it's really only useful against stations. However, it's way more profitable to capture stations by boarding them then instakilling them with a lag-weapon. So sure, you can make an overkill lag-gun of doom, but I dare you to actually use it on a server (which you clearly haven't). Besides, I have yet to see a single station that wasn't a home base that couldn't easily be taken down with a normal ship.

But of course, all things considered, you probably know better than veteran players with years of ship building and combat experience. Right?

I have my own servers where I play with my son and some of his friends and a few others. The greatest angle anyone can be from you and moving is 90% if they turn away from you they are becoming more parallel with you which makes them easier to hit. If they turn toward you the same goes. You lead the target as you said. You fire in front of them. if it misses in front they will usually turn. If they turn it becomes a benefit not a loss for you if you know how to correct if they don't change course you simply reduce the lead and correct fire assuming you are tailing them you correct course coming in behind them will put you firing strait up their rear. If the are coming toward you you simply increase course correction so they end up coming at you.
Its standard naval tactics. Of course if these were old still ships we could run by each other and do a broad side as well. Which is easy enough if you have turrets.

The weapon doesn't have to be built to this size and extent to be effective I am sure you can figure that out. I was making the point even under current limitation there is zero ability for shields and armor to even come close to matching what weapons are capable of in the game.

Years of experience doesn't mean much in a game changing this much. Space combat is still space combat. Granted this game doesn't really simulate space that well. Space ships slow down for no reason and have a magical cap on speed. The game has gimbal lock as well. Using quaternions would have solved that problem.

Usually most battles don't start out with a face off. One side jumps the other. Considering the power saving and space savings one can come up with it isn't impossible to build a full time cloaked and jamming titan and have a God style weapon on it.

Which if the game focuses more around PV all it is going to eventually turn into is a gankfest because of the imbalance.

 

[Panpiper]

Considering the power saving and space savings one can come up with it isn't impossible to build a full time cloaked and jamming titan and have a God style weapon on it.

Er... I've got a 2.5 million block ship that can maintain a jam, but there is absolutely no way you could get a ship that size to permacloak, let alone do so and still have any sort of serious weapon on it.

 

[lilheartless]

Er... I've got a 2.5 million block ship that can maintain a jam, but there is absolutely no way you could get a ship that size to permacloak, let alone do so and still have any sort of serious weapon on it.

sure you could docked reactors op but i think you would have to trade off something either thrust or shields possibly all of one and some of another if you wanted a full on titan level weapons system and permacloaking.

 

[Keptick]

Thanks glad to know I'm not crazy.
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I have my own servers where I play with my son and some of his friends and a few others. The greatest angle anyone can be from you and moving is 90% if they turn away from you they are becoming more parallel with you which makes them easier to hit. If they turn toward you the same goes. You lead the target as you said. You fire in front of them. if it misses in front they will usually turn. If they turn it becomes a benefit not a loss for you if you know how to correct if they don't change course you simply reduce the lead and correct fire assuming you are tailing them you correct course coming in behind them will put you firing strait up their rear. If the are coming toward you you simply increase course correction so they end up coming at you.
Its standard naval tactics. Of course if these were old still ships we could run by each other and do a broad side as well. Which is easy enough if you have turrets.

The weapon doesn't have to be built to this size and extent to be effective I am sure you can figure that out. I was making the point even under current limitation there is zero ability for shields and armor to even come close to matching what weapons are capable of in the game.

Years of experience doesn't mean much in a game changing this much. Space combat is still space combat. Granted this game doesn't really simulate space that well. Space ships slow down for no reason and have a magical cap on speed. The game has gimbal lock as well. Using quaternions would have solved that problem.

Usually most battles don't start out with a face off. One side jumps the other. Considering the power saving and space savings one can come up with it isn't impossible to build a full time cloaked and jamming titan and have a God style weapon on it.

Which if the game focuses more around PV all it is going to eventually turn into is a gankfest because of the imbalance.

If what you said were true then we'd only see instakill ships on servers, yet we don't. Trust me, people have thought about logic weapons and other crazy stuff, so if it was truly OP they'd use them.

I also don't have godlike aiming skills, so I guess that's just you. What are your typical engagement ranges btw? Actually, you could just sign up for the NFD server, that way we could actually test it :D. If it really is as OP as you're saying then it'll tell the Devs about it. I apologize for the agressivity btw, it's just that there's been so much stupid rants about "OP" weapons or things in the past (which were really not) that I'm always on the defensive when something of the like comes up.

 

[Criss]

I've not seen logic fired weapons since the Blood and Steel tournament, in which Sven_The_Slayer took on his opponent with auto firing missiles. He lost.

 

[GRHayes]

If what you said were true then we'd only see instakill ships on servers, yet we don't. Trust me, people have thought about logic weapons and other crazy stuff, so if it was truly OP they'd use them.

I also don't have godlike aiming skills, so I guess that's just you. What are your typical engagement ranges btw? Actually, you could just sign up for the NFD server, that way we could actually test it :D. If it really is as OP as you're saying then it'll tell the Devs about it. I apologize for the agressivity btw, it's just that there's been so much stupid rants about "OP" weapons or things in the past (which were really not) that I'm always on the defensive when something of the like comes up.

I've enjoyed our discussion. Sorry if I came off a bit strong. I would have responded sooner but I had to pick my son up from school.

I'm just saying with all the attempt to balance the game some times the more you do the simpler solutions are overlooked.
Like I said that was just my way of making the point it was impossible for any shields or armor to keep up with damage rate someone can do with weapons if they choose.

I have to admit I am not your typical player. I do run all the calculations and work out strategies.

Do you really want a lag monster like that running around on a server. Right now I am working on a full time cloaked and jamming version. Which is why my original post was up I was having issues with the PS not working the way they should and getting the full 80% turns out part is my fault and another part may be a client server issue or just timing. I figured if I can't rely on shields maybe stealth was a good answer.
But having learned the shield module issue is just a bug that will even out the balance issue I am complaining about anyways.

I'll say one thing though its harder hitting targets in this game than in RL for me. Lag doesn't screw with you in RL. But dear and animals turning or other targets for that matter isn't something that bothers me.

Part of what has saved this people still try to employ some looks to the ships and other functionality. But think of it this way if a server actually had a hard core war going on and each side was trying to get the upper hand it would turn into building ships for performance over appearance.
If you want a scary thought imagine that system as purely heat seeking missiles. You would probably have the server crash just from the missile fire to start with then if that didn't do it the number of impact calculations would be insane.
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Er... I've got a 2.5 million block ship that can maintain a jam, but there is absolutely no way you could get a ship that size to permacloak, let alone do so and still have any sort of serious weapon on it.

You can when you are using power supplies delivering 2000+ e /mas a second. Its just math. You simply need enough power supplies to counter the weapons systems mass.
Example: 755K ps producing 2000+ e/mas Well just say 2000 to simplify the math. That would mean the PS has 3775 blocks. You need 1550 to do both cloak and jam per block. that means the power supply is good for 4870 blocks being cloaked. 4870-3775=1095 spare blocks the power supply can handle. you then take the added blocks you want to cloak and divide by 1095 you said 2.5 million so well just use that number/ that means we need 2283 of the power supplies. That will provide cloaking for the weapon and all the power supplies. If you want to throw shielding and armor in add their block count to the 2.5M and divide by what ever that result is.

Its just math.

 

[Panpiper]

You can when you are using power supplies delivering 2000+ e /mas a second. Its just math. You simply need enough power supplies to counter the weapons systems mass.

The theory be damned , in practice docked power supplies do not deliver anywhere near that level of power. The best docked reactors I have ever seen generate in the vicinity of 1400 power per mass when actually being tested for power generated over two minutes into an empty battery. It takes 1450 power per mass to maintain a cloak, so a docked reactor can't even cloak itself with the power it transfers, let alone anything else.

I challenge you to build and post a permacloak/permajam ship that uses docked power reactors as it's power source that is able to destroy a pirate station with a dumbfire weapon without itself being destroyed. If you are able, I will proclaim you a god of Starmade and put my testimony to that in my (currently non-existent) signature.

 

[GRHayes]

The theory be damned , in practice docked power supplies do not deliver anywhere near that level of power. The best docked reactors I have ever seen generate in the vicinity of 1400 power per mass when actually being tested for power generated over two minutes into an empty battery. It takes 1450 power per mass to maintain a cloak, so a docked reactor can't even cloak itself with the power it transfers, let alone anything else.

I challenge you to build and post a permacloak/permajam ship that uses docked power reactors as it's power source that is able to destroy a pirate station with a dumbfire weapon without itself being destroyed. If you are able, I will proclaim you a god of Starmade and put my testimony to that in my (currently non-existent) signature.

If you check the discussion Lancake and I have been having in this post you will see whats going on.
First thing you need to do is use the most efficient power system you can that is a single line 600 blocks long or any single group with dimensions of 600. A 1M generator isn't as efficient as a 755 it uses 360+ added blocks just to get to 1M.

There also appears to be currently a bug. Which he is reporting. For that 755K you need 1258 per beam of beam modules +520 power cap +10 logic 1 core 1 docker =3048 blocks or 304.8 then 755000*.8 = 604000 then 604000/304.8 = 1981.6
However you actually do not need that amount of capacitors you just need enough to get past the tick. This would be the absolute worst you need.

You should understand I can wipe a pirate station off the map as it is. Which is why I built the pirate barn to be at least a minimal challenge for a small ship. You can sit at 3K and pirate station will not target you. Take a look at the weapons concept thread on general discussion. Then figure out how much that is easy to expand. Imagine 556 of those systems firing 1 Meg weapons every 2 seconds. It is what Keptick and I were discussing.

 

[lilheartless]

The theory be damned , in practice docked power supplies do not deliver anywhere near that level of power. The best docked reactors I have ever seen generate in the vicinity of 1400 power per mass when actually being tested for power generated over two minutes into an empty battery. It takes 1450 power per mass to maintain a cloak, so a docked reactor can't even cloak itself with the power it transfers, let alone anything else.

I challenge you to build and post a permacloak/permajam ship that uses docked power reactors as it's power source that is able to destroy a pirate station with a dumbfire weapon without itself being destroyed. If you are able, I will proclaim you a god of Starmade and put my testimony to that in my (currently non-existent) signature.

as gr said power supply beams are currently bugged when logic fired and aren't supplying 20% of the power they are supposed to be (one of the ticks is not ticking right now)